XGWORKS important Question

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

Our good friend Chris from Germany sent me following statement ( in another thread ) which is completely new and unknown to me.

I am a frequent XGW user since 1997.
XGW's last update was in 2002, as far as I know.

I would be very grateful if other XGW users are commenting Chris' statement.
As far as I know XGWorks plays and edits SFF1 styles with an "*sty " extension ONLY. But Who am I ?

CHRIS' STATEMENT :

Why shouldn't XGworks support SFF2 (= SFF GE) Styles?
I don't use XGworks very often. But I have just loaded a Genos Preset Style into XGworks (V3.0.7E) without any problems.
The file extension of a Style file doesn't matter. Just click "File > Open" (or the "Open" icon) and change the File Type in the "Open" window to "All Files" (*.*)". Then you can see (and load) any compatible files such as MIDI files (.mid, .kar), Style files (e.g. sty, .prs, .sst), Voice Set files (e.g .vce), Multi Pad files (.pad).

I would be very happy and grateful if Chris' words are correct.
If these words are correct, which I really hope, I would like know how to operate in XGWorks.

Thanks and best regards, JH

[Fred Smith]

Jeff,

Chris explained what to do to edit SFF2 styles. What happened when you tried it?

Cheers,
Fred

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Fred :

Thanks for your reaction.

I am absolutely not familiar with the way how Chris is importing SFF2 styles in XGW to edit midi tracks in XGWorks.
I have tried several times.
I am sure I am doing something wrong, I guess. 
It does not work for me but I would be very grateful to receive a step by step explanation.

Kind regards, JH

[ckobu]

We can input the style directly into XGWorks (and process it) but after processing it loses properties because CASM data is deleted.
There are two solutions.
1. Use MixMaster and the GoTo option to switch to XGWorks
https://youtu.be/T-uCLPvPwkw?t=270
2. Use the Style Split and Splice program to store and restore CASM data
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sands/

[vlbrgt]

Jeff,

What Chris does is simply loading a midi file into XGWorks.
Even if you load a style this way, it will only load the midi part of the style, NOT the CASM.

But you cannot start 'Create style block' with a SFF2 style like you can with the XGWorks preinstalled styles or a SFF1 style.
For a 'Create style block' the file extension must be .sty.

Regards
Etienne

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Etienne :

That means I am right.

Thanks and best regards, JH

[ckobu]

In addition to sty, STX type Styles can also be used. I tried to convert SFF2 to SFF1 and insert them into the XGWorks database but they don't work. Obviously these sty in XGWorks have a slightly different structure.

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[jwyvern]

Jeff,


But you cannot start 'Create style block' with a SFF2 style like you can with the XGWorks preinstalled styles or a SFF1 style.
For a 'Create style block' the file extension must be .sty.

Regards
Etienne

If the extension is not originally . sty but you subsequently, rename it to . sty does this solve the problem (like it can do with some other file operations) or is it the structure of non sty files that causes them not to be compatible?

John

[pieterpan]

Jeff,

Why not use Styleworks Yamaha - the easiest way to convert SFF 2 to SFF1 and vice versa without any trouble.

Regards <> Piet

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

Converting SFF2 to SFF1 in XGW mostly does not work for guitar voices and/or some other voices.

After conversion the sound is terrible, out of tune and not usable.

Wished this problem could be solved but it is not possible.

The only solution is to replace the voice, I guess but the user is missing the special SFF2 sound.

Best wishes, JH

[Joe H]

Hi Guys :

Converting SFF2 to SFF1 in XGW mostly does not work for guitar voices and/or some other voices.

After conversion the sound is terrible, out of tune and not usable.

Wished this problem could be solved but it is not possible.

The only solution is to replace the voice, I guess but the user is missing the special SFF2 sound.

Best wishes, JH

Buy a copy of StyleMagic... it will convert SFF1 to SFF2 and SFF2 to SFF1 without problems.

Joe H

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Joe H :

If I am sure conversion will happen perfectly I will order this prog IMMEDIATELY.☘️

Where can I buy it ?
A nice birthday present for me next week.🤠

Plse advise. 👌

Looking forward to receiving your reply very soon.

Thanks and kind regards, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi Jeff.

Website, and lots of information and videos here:
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/#strona-dn
Just scroll down through the page.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi GJ :

Thank you so much for the link !
Very much appreciated, JH

[ckobu]

Hi Jeff,
I don't think people have properly understood what you really need. You don't want to edit Style, you want to use it to create a MIDI file in XG Works. Am I right? If so, then Style Magic won't help you because he can't either.

[Jeff Hollande]

Dear Friend Casper:

Thank you so much for your reply concerning StyleMagic comments.
Very interesting. I am very grateful. I know you are an XGW user too.

You are right. I need that prog mostly for XGWorks.

How do you convert SFF2 styles for XGW now ...
or do you use only SFF1 styles, maybe ?

Well, for the time being I have always worked with Joergen's program to convert SFF2 styles into SFF1, then used CASM Edit ( from Russia ) to change the style extension in*.sty. 

In general the results were not bad at all in XGW. 

Due to my recent installation of win11 I cannot no longer install Joergen's prog as explained by me in an other thread.


Most of the time I could use the "new" made SFF1 style in XGW except for particular voices ( like some el. guitars and some other instruments ) that could not be converted and then sounded ugly, out of tune or were unusable and needed to be replaced by other voices.
But the problem is : in that case I lost the nice sound of the SFF2.

So I think StylesMagic might be useful and a good alternative.
We will see.
In the meantime I contacted this company in Poland and do wait for their reply.

Wished we had an XGW upgrade to make SFF2 styles usable BUT it is a dream that NEVER will come true.
How many ears must one man have to hear people cry ?

In my simple mind XGW is the best midi DAW for Yamaha arranger keyboards and I will never understand why Yamaha or Steinberg are not launching a paid XGW alternative.
There must be a serious reason why one of both companies cannot do it.
Money is in the air though

Wished another cy could the job but it might be impossible, who knows ?

Best regards, JH

[ckobu]

Try to install Producer on Win 11.
http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/producer/producermain.htm

If it works properly, I have an idea how with all Style (Preset, User, SSF, SFF2) one can easily make a MIDI song.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Casper :


I just installed this program on my win11 pc : Producer program.
Installation seems to be OK.

Are you using it instead of XGW ?
Does it work well ?
All happens mostly in the keyboard instead of in the pc unless you know a better option.

It is a different way of working I am not so familiar with to make midi files ...

It has one big advantage though : all Yamaha styles can be used, right ?

Best regards, JH

[Jørgen]

Hi

For SFF2 to SFF1 try my "Style Format 2 Converter" software at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sf2c/index.htm

Any conversion of a new format to an older format with fewer facilities will result in a loss. These are the conditions ... but of course the loss can be greater or less dependent on the conversion algorithm. A new format was invented to provide facilities that the previous format did not have, right?

Jørgen

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Joergen :

Cannot install it in win11, remember ?😳

Best wishes, JH

[Jørgen]

Hi

I think Chris gave the instructions for handling this problem in another thread...
I can not do anything else than keep programming using Microsoft Visual Studio, which is the recommended developing environment for Windows programs...
Jørgen

[Jeff Hollande]

Joergen :

Hopefully new win11 updates will solve the Microsoft problem.
Time will tell. Let us cross our fingers.

Best regards, JH

[overover]

... Hopefully new win11 updates will solve the Microsoft problem.
Time will tell. Let us cross our fingers. ...

Hi Jeff,

As I wrote in the other thread, the problem is already fixed in the current version of Windows 11. This means that if an earlier .NET Framwork version is required there, this can be installed simply by clicking on the relevant button in the error message that initially appears.

You wrote that you have installed an older "Dev" version of Win 11 (Build 21996.1):
>>> https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,60906.msg468294.html#msg468294

I recommend you to update to the current Win 11 version (currently version 21H2 Build 22000.258). I don't know if you can simply update a "Dev" (which means "Development") version using the internal Windows Update function. If not, you'll have to download the Windows Media Creation Tool and use it to update. Alternatively, you could download the current Windows 11 iso file from Microsoft and reinstall it from scratch. In this case, however, you should definitely have the Windows (10) Product Key used (can also be read out from Windows with certain tools), otherwise the new Windows 11 installation cannot be activated.


Best regards,
Chris

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Chris :

Since I am not a win expert, it might be wiser to leave my win11 home like it is now.
I am afraid for more problems and damage.
I have only one win computer. The others are Mac.

Maybe local friends can help me out.

It works for approx. 85% now and hopefully it will be fully repaired as soon as new updates are launched by Microsoft.

Some progs I cannot use for the moment ... but let us cross our fingers the times they are changing.

Wished I had never installed this new version but it is too late.

Best wishes, JH

[Jeff Hollande]

HI CASPER :

WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL IF YOU WOULD TELL ME YOUR IDEA WITH ALL STYLE one can easily make a MIDI song.
Your reply would be very much appreciated.
Thanks and best regards, JH

Try to install Producer on Win 11.
http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/producer/producermain.htm

If it works properly, I have an idea how with all Style (Preset, User, SSF, SFF2) one can easily make a MIDI song.

[ckobu]

Hi Jeff
The Producer would use it to enter a Chord song. I play the created SONG and start recording in Genos. In the first bars of the recording, I change the Preset Style to USER. In Producer I intentionally put 4 bars more at the very beginning to get to change the Style. I end up saving that as SONG. When I import it into Cubase I have all the tracks from my song.

[Jeff Hollande]

Thanks, Casper.
Very much appreciated.

YOUR IDEA'S ARE ALWAYS MOST WELCOME !

DAWS used by me :

Windows ... Cakewalk by BandLab
Mac        ... Cubase Elements 11

Best regards, JH

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Chris And Joergen :

I have reinstalled Windows10 and removed win11.
Win11 has too many bugs and some progs are difficult or not possible to install yet.

I am very glad I could go back to my old win10.

It is not my intention to reinstall win11 for the first 2 years.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR SUPPORT AND HELP !


Best regards, JH

[ckobu]

Hi Jeff
The Producer would use it to enter a Chord song. I play the created SONG and start recording in Genos. In the first bars of the recording, I change the Preset Style to USER. In Producer I intentionally put 4 bars more at the very beginning to get to change the Style. I end up saving that as SONG. When I import it into Cubase I have all the tracks from my song.

I changed the concept a bit, this is the video I was talking about.

https://youtu.be/WsmVxiN4F84

[Jeff Hollande]

Interesting video. Thank you, Casper !

It looks like Producer seems to be very usable for making basic midi songs out of SFF2 Yamaha styles.
A task XGW absolutely cannot do.

BUT the final midi file ( after a full editing proces ) can be made in XGWorks though.

I like this procedure very much since herewith a serious XGW problem has been solved for ever and ... Producer becomes an important prog too.

Best wishes, JH