No Yamaha News is good News ?

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

It is early October 2021.
Up to now Yamaha have not announced new arranger keyboards for delivery in 2022 yet.

The Genos1 was born in 2017 and will be 5 years old in 2022.
The new SX serie ( 700 + 900 ) was available as of 2019 and will be 3 years old next year. 

Due to the present shortage of digital chips and the lack of containers ( to ship arranger keyboards ) all over the world, it looks like the prices have been increased ( 10% ? ) by Yamaha. Apparantly ( if not in stock ), it seems some products have a 6 months delivery time.

I do not know if the above price and lead time info is correct or has been confirmed by Yamaha. A RUMOUR, I guess ?


Does all this sad News mean we do not have to expect new products and the present product range will be continued next year ?

What about Korg ? No News either, I guess.


I am afraid only Yamaha and Korg might know the answers.

Best regards, JH

[Toril S]

We have to enjoy what we have now and not forget that a 5 years old Genos is just as good as it was when you got it. In fact, due to updates it is actually better!! And, a keyboard is only just as good as the player. 😀

[tommac]

not in a hurry for a new one--just means mine is worth less when i want to sell-(which i don`t)

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi.
Anyone remember which way it went with the home organ market?
I think we are close to the end when it comes to greater development of autocomp keyboards as we know them. Now DAW is the big thing, and much of the music is created using sophisticated software and computers.
The average user of 'autocomp keyboards' is mostly the elderly population, and as we know, it thins out as time goes on.
At the end, it's about sales and profit, and now there is fewer brands delivering TOTL arrangers than there were just a few years ago.
I think we saw a signal when Yamaha so kindly gave away all additional stylepackages for free. Also
Another sign may be that Korg PA4X is a couple of years older than Genos, and so far there is no serious signals about new models or updates to see.
I really hope that my predictions are completely wrong....... 🤔

[DerekA]

Given the current situation with chips and containers, I can't see this being the right time to launch a new arranger product anyway.

When Genos II does eventually arrive .. I'm sure I will want it! Whether I'm allowed to buy it or not is another question ...

[mikf]

Far from thinning out, the older population is the fastest growing segment of the market - and additionally they live longer, and are much better off. 
I think the reason there is no rush to provide a replacement Genos is a combination of the pandemic associated delays and because they reallly don't have to. The technology development is mature, there is no urgent competitive reason and simply adding features thereby making the keyboard more complicated does not really suit the older user, who is a huge part of the market. Another myth is that they need to keep giving us a reason to upgrade, but in fact most TOTL keyboards are not bought by people who own the previous TOTL keyboard. They are either new to the market or replacing much or older lesser instruments.
I would think a much bigger concern for Yamaha is that the technology is now so mature that we are reaching the point where you no longer need to spend $4000 or more to get a good keyboard. You can buy a decent instrument that is meeting many needs for $500 or less - almost at impulse buy level. That is the real threat to the TOTL arranger.
Mike

[Rich Z]

I have a feeling that Yamaha is watching to see what Korg does, and Korg is watching Yamaha to see what it does.  Way back when, I thought that Korg should just combine the PA4x and the Kronos into one instrument. I really wanted an arranger, but IMHO, the Kronos just SOUNDED better to my ears. So that is what I bought, but was never really all that happy with my decision.

And honestly, rather recently I was waiting to see if that PA4x/Kronos combo would happen in the next generation Korg before I gave up waiting and wound up biting the bullet and buying the Genos. 

Maybe times have changed to where keeping two separate lines of instruments (workstations vs arrangers) has passed on by and is no longer a feasible marketing strategy?  But who knows what goes through their minds?  I can't honestly say that all decisions marketing "experts" have made has made any sense to me.

[John UK]

The older generation numbers may be increasing but are those youngsters who are now older actually interested in playing music, and did they play piano, organ or keyboards at an earlier age? I personally only bought a Tyros as I used to play the organ when I was a kid. I'm not sure if I would have developed an interest in keyboards if I hadn't been introduced to playing music at an earlier age.

Regarding new keyboards from Yamaha, I think the Genos and earlier Tyros keyboards offer more than enough features for the majority of people. Even though I like technology, I've lost interest in upgrading to the latest model/release - there's now few gains for the extra price you have to pay. And keeping an old model rather than checking for and wanting the next model means I'm not causing the manufacturer to use more of the Earth's resources building a new model for me. Mind you if this popup keyboard on my tablet disappears one more time I might bin it and buy a different new tablet 😅

[mikf]

Well there is still a lot of people who have the itch to play a musical instrument as they get older. Even if the percentage is lower, the absolute numbers are still bigger because word population has tripled in the last 70 years - that is only one generation. And John, what you see around you is a very small piece of the pie today, because you have to think globally - like Yamaha.  There is massive growth in Asia, where playing musical instruments and musical instrument sales are currently huge. We in the west still think that we set the direction, but ask anyone in consumer luxury goods and they will tell you the Asia market swamps the rest of the world. I was in Hong Kong a few years ago and it felt like there was a Tiffany store on every corner.
Mike

[stephenm52]

Hi :

It is early October 2021.
Up to now Yamaha have not announced new arranger keyboards for delivery in 2022 yet.

I know this is about arrangers but I've been in the market for a digital piano.  Recently as in this week I've had my eyes on 3 different digital pianos one was the Yamaha p515, another was the Roland 60FPx and another the Roland RD 88.       All 3 are great pianos.  I was told by a reliable dealer that the P515 and 60FPx will not be available until the January/February time frame of 2022.  I can get a Roland RD88 in a few weeks and that's what I've chosen.  It can also be midi'ed to my Genos.   Not sure what's going on but new arrangers don't look they will be introduced very soon.

[janamdo]

Somehow there must be coming new product from Yamaha in the (near) furure , because selling
new products its income for Yamaha ( this is not rocketscience).
I think yamaha will always (try to )differentiate between products in order to sell as much keyboards they can.

[pjd]

Not sure what's going on but new arrangers don't look they will be introduced very soon.

Hi Steve --

Hope all is going well!

One of the news channels ran a story about global shipping and supply chain issues. They showed a satellite image of Long Beach harbor with 62 container ships parked, waiting to unload. The situation is similar in Puget Sound (ports of Seattle and Everett).

Even if a manufacturer can make something, that something will likely be stuck in a container on a ship for weeks on end. It would be crazy business to announce a product, get people excited, and then ... ... ... ... not deliver for several months.

I'd like to buy a Roland/Boss Bluetooth expression pedal. The initial press release said October, but I doubt if I'll see it for a good long while.

Hey, hey, stay healthy -- pj

[stephenm52]

HI PJ,  Great to hear from you!  Yes all is going well hope you're doing well.   As I recall you have moved from New England.  I had read something about global shipping and the supply change being an issue.  Actually we've experienced some delays too at home my wife ordered some new furniture some time ago and we are still waiting delivery more supply chain issues.

Likewise my friend stay healthy!

[mikf]

Somehow there must be coming new product from Yamaha in the (near) furure , because selling
new products its income for Yamaha ( this is not rocketscience).

Janamdo -- If by new products you mean new models, then in fact, no, they don't need to launch new models to sell. They make the same income - and maybe higher profit - by continuing to sell existing models. New models - because they are expensive to develop - are regarded as a 'necessary evil' in a corporation to maintain competitive position, you do it only when , and if, you have to.
If the competitive position is not threatened then there is no urgent need. So you can throttle back and save money. As I said above, I doubt that the big threat to Yamaha is other TOTL arrangers, it's the proliferation of low cost, but good, keyboards.
One balancing factor is that they may consider that maintaining the appearance of the market leader at the top end might help them to sell bottom and middle end instruments at a premium, but right now they do not seem to be threatened as the market leader at the top end. 
Mike

[EileenL]

I think us Oldies just want to sit and play a nice sounding instrument that is easy to use. We have that in Genos and SX900. It is a nice retirement hobby and will remain so. We don't clamber for all this add on electronic stuff to try and make you sound better than you are. To be honest I am betting that a lot of people do not use the half the things that are on Genos, they just pick a nice style and sit and play using there favourite voices and for me that is what it is all about. I don't worry about what might or might not be. Having come through the pandemic so far I am quite happy with what I have. Unlike Jeff I do not worry about Chips and boats getting held up.
  As they say "What will be will be"

[stephenm52]

I believe our arrangers especially the Genos and SX900 are state of the art. I don't know how many more improvements can be made to Genos or the SX900 at least in the way that I use the arrangers.

[soundphase]

I believe our arrangers especially the Genos and SX900 are state of the art. I don't know how many more improvements can be made to Genos or the SX900 at least in the way that I use the arrangers.

By using SSD and far more memory, samples for acoustic instruments could even be far better, even if they are now far better than on electronic organs 40 years ago. Piano, guitars, strings & violins for example are far to be perfect on Genos.

[stephenm52]

By using SSD and far more memory, samples for acoustic instruments could even be far better, even if they are now far better than on electronic organs 40 years ago. Piano, guitars, strings & violins for example are far to be perfect on Genos.

Sounds like no matter how advanced Genos is it can always be better.   I'm very happy with my Genos as it is today but I'm sure if a newer model was released I'd be in line to buy one

[PdeMats]

I believe our arrangers especially the Genos and SX900 are state of the art. I don't know how many more improvements can be made to Genos or the SX900 at least in the way that I use the arrangers.

I'd still give a lot of use to an Unison and Accent feature that's in the less pricey SX600!

[Jeff Hollande]

Apparently most of us do not believe Yamaha will launch new high end arrangers in 2022.😜

If no new toys are coming in, I may hope a new update ( at least for the SX 700 and 900 serie ) will be announced for next year though.
New styles and voices included ? Yessss ?
Cross my fingers.🥸

No news from Korg so far.
Bye for now, JH

[EileenL]

There are lots of new styles in the free packs and lots of others available from Yamaha Music Soft.
  I bet you most of us only use about thirty of our favourite styles to play our songs and a good way of freshening up a style is to go to the Style creator and use the Groove or Style assembly. It is all there on your keyboard waiting to be used.

[Lee Batchelor]

I think us Oldies just want to sit and play a nice sounding instrument that is easy to use. We have that in Genos and SX900. It is a nice retirement hobby and will remain so. We don't clamber for all this add on electronic stuff to try and make you sound better than you are. To be honest I am betting that a lot of people do not use the half the things that are on Genos, they just pick a nice style and sit and play using there favorite voices and for me that is what it is all about. I don't worry about what might or might not be. Having come through the pandemic so far I am quite happy with what I have. Unlike Jeff I do not worry about Chips and boats getting held up.
  As they say "What will be will be"

Eileen, as a former medical professional, I can say that your attitude could lead to a long and healthy life . As usual, your wisdom is much needed and appreciated. We love ya, even though 99.9% of us have never met you! Maybe some day?

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

Wished Yamaha raised the corner of the veil by telling us what their plans are for 2022.
A wish that will never come true. 

All the best, JH

[Oldden]

Don't forget that Genos and the like are only a small section of the instruments that Yamaha make. There are guitars , of which I have two. Drums, brass  woodwind plus string instruments, violins and the like, not to mention pianos. Plus stuff I've not seen. And there is hi-fi and stuff for the profession side of things. It's a big, big company with there fingers in lots of places we don't even know about.
Just to say I love my Genos. It's a better keyboard than I am player and I'm afraid always will be.
Oldden

[EileenL]

I really can't understand why you are so concerned Jeff. Are you not happy with what you have.

[cliffordleo1965]

By using SSD and far more memory, samples for acoustic instruments could even be far better, even if they are now far better than on electronic organs 40 years ago. Piano, guitars, strings & violins for example are far to be perfect on Genos.

IN PASR S 975 ONLY 768 MB SPACE FOR EXPANSION PACKS IN SX 900 1 GB THAT WAS LESS IF MORE SPACE WE CAN ARRANGE NICE PACKS BY CREATING WITH YEP. THEN ITS USEFULL. I,M USING PSR S 975.. FOR EXPANSION PACKS SPACE MORE NEEDED

[mikf]

Piano, guitars, strings & violins for example are far to be perfect on Genos.

These are simulations, and darn good simulations. If you want perfect you need to use a real instrument. And the vast majority of these arrangers are bought by people who dont need perfect.
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Oh yes, I am very happy with what I have but I am not the only person who is concerned about the future of Yamaha's production of high end arrangers.

More members of this Forum would be very pleased to hear more from Yamaha.

Best wishes, JH

[EileenL]

As we all know by now when Yamaha has something to tell us they will so in the meantime enjoy what you have.

[mikf]

......... I am not the only person who is concerned about the future of Yamaha's production of high end arrangers.

Yes, there are a lot of people with a high interest in Yamahas next offerings .......but most of them are dealers, not consumers. The average arranger player doesn't spend much time thinking about what is coming next  on Yamahas TOTL arranger these days, because what they already have meets or exceeds their needs. It was different when the technology was ramping up fast, but now we are on the mature part of the curve.
Mike