What a headache YEM is

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

HI

Since the latest update i already had a Base CQI file with all packs in and another single one loaded in the family tree linking method.
When i go to add a single pack the CQI is missing and only CPI showed in the drop down bar on computer.
I uninstalled the latest Yem and reinstalled it.
Now it shows up , but i had to start all over making a base file. Success at last after sweating in this torrid time now we are having in 28degrees England.

I have really started to get down and do some sampling with Sample Robot  and started on the Arturia synths.
The only trouble now is the size of the sample.
Yamaha keeps them down, but mine are coming out at roughly 200 Meg a sound.
So with 3 gig ,the most i would get is 15 Sounds without any packs loaded.
.Any suggestions as i could get a load more in the bomb bay underneath the Genos with a 64 gig stick, but somehow i would have to erase every time i get to full capacity on the YEM. and make another family tree. I suppose i could have several trees

How do you all get over this who owns a sampler?? I bet Chokbu has a good answer Lol.

All the Best
John

[ckobu]

Hello John,

I'm not sure I understood you well. Granted, I figured this out with the heat but it's not a problem, you just turn on the air conditioner.

Don't use the latest YEM, it's slow. Use version 2.7.0. If you have already done everything with 2.8.1, then stay on it because you cannot enter the material in the older version.

And now to hear what exactly the problem is. One sound has 200 mb? OK, all of a sudden you can type 15 such sounds into the keyboard. You want to have multiple installation files on a 64 GB USB stick and then write them to Expansion Memory as needed. You want to have them as a CQI to make enrollment take faster.
Did I understand well what you need?

[overover]

Hi John,

You have a maximum of 3GB Expansion Memory available for all Expansion Voices that you want to install at the same time. Of course you could have several Pack Install files on a USB stick. But you then have to reinstall the correct pack whenever you want to use the respective voices. USB sticks can NOT be used as additional expansion wave memory.

A basic "Full Pack Install" file is in the .cpi format (or .ppi if only unprotected packs are involved).

A "Quick Pack Install" file is in the .cqi format (or .pqi if only unprotected packs are involved).

Casper (ckobu) had shown in one of his tutorial videos how to create a "Basic" Pack Install file (.cpi) and, if desired, several "Quick" Pack Install files. Please note, however, that these Quick Pack Install files can only be installed in the order in which they were originally created. See the mentioned video from time position 7:00.
>>> https://youtu.be/xj8Anf4B3sY?t=419

So in some ways it can make sense to work exclusively with (several) "Full Pack Install" files (.cpi / .ppi) instead. The disadvantage here is that the expansion memory is then unfortunately reformatted with EVERY pack installation.


P.S.
Unfortunately, "normal" users do not have access to special compression methods that Yamaha uses for the voice samples in expansion packs. Voices created by the user, on the other hand, can only be realized with uncompressed WAV samples, so these Voices need more space in the expansion memory.

If you use Sample Robot and specify "best" or "good" or "original" quality, the automatically generated / looped / key mapped samples / sf2 files will probably be relatively large.

However, you could achieve a lower storage requirement by ...
- using fewer individual samples, i.e. do not sample each key individually, but use each sample for e.g. three consecutive keys and / or
- using shorter note lengths, loop lengths or, for samples that have not yet been looped at all, use a loop (and implement the sound decay via a corresponding amp envelope).

Quote from the chapter "Ultra Quick Start" in the Sample Robot 6 Pro manual (page 11):

"Please note that the higher the values for Velocity
Layer and the lower the Key-Step the more detailed
the virtual copy gets, but on the other hand it takes
longer to record the instrument and more disk space
and more software sampler performance is required.
So it is wise to choose a compromise between quality
and quantity."


Best regards,
Chris

[mikf]

/quote]
Air conditioning. ....... In England? That must be a feature on the Genos. 😄😄😄

[ckobu]

Ufff, I didn't think about it. In my area it is an integral part of housing, heating and cooling. You can't live without it.
But I agree as a suggestion for a new Genos, instead of a lower USB stick we need a small fan to cool for the player. 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chokbu
In England we normally put the heating on!!
So, we have a fan just for the short period we get heat, Yes, that wafts around the big heat a little faster only getting a slight effect!!. Phew!!

I did say that i have made a family tree with pack files on a USB stick and you cannot break that or then it is back to making a basic start file again and progressing from there.
I do agree that the latest yem is slow.

Chris
The sample i made yesterday fron the Arturia synth was 200Mb with  4 sample points key step 12.
So i will really have to select a range i need for what i want.

Would this work----

So you now would have to get the 3 gig of sample information on several sticks and a lot of hassle of reformatting and building back up to 3 gig
So really you can only get 3 gig on a stick. That is a waste of a 16 gig stick lol.
Really is is best then just to get a sound only that you cannot get on the Genos or just work with the VST in Cubase.
I wonder how Yamaha keeps the packs down to low value in mb's. Must have some Argon Accuulator compression device that folds space and time.

All the best
John

[DerekA]

If I remember right, the M1 had a *total* wave ROM sample size of about 4MB!! Genos has more than 1000 times that in ROM and nearly 1000 times that in rewritable flash memory. We are truly spoilt these days

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Things have advanced and sounds are eating more and more space.
Getting down to yhe nitty gritty can i---------

I have just say 3 gig of packs on the Genos. Now that is stored on the USB under the Genos in the Bomb bay. I format that back to 0.
I now make a new base file and add again and 3gig is used  and on a USB 64 gig plugged in the top of Genos.
Take that out make another format and put on second Usb.
Now transfer then on to the first usb , then repeat when run out of space again
So the first usb could now store up to 64 gig of samples and then all should show up on Genos and choose what you want.
Is that a possible???
All the Best
John

[mikf]

I have never seen it mentioned before, but one issue with YEM is that Yamaha has only made it compatible with a relatively small number of keyboards. The CVP 805 costs about $12,000, and is easily Yamahas most expensive electronic keyboard, has almost full Genos features but no access to YEM, so none of the additional styles voices etc are available. It's hard to see why that would have taken much effort from Yamaha.
Mike

[overover]

I have never seen it mentioned before, but one issue with YEM is that Yamaha has only made it compatible with a relatively small number of keyboards. The CVP 805 costs about $12,000, and is easily Yamahas most expensive electronic keyboard, has almost full Genos features but no access to YEM, so none of the additional styles voices etc are available. It's hard to see why that would have taken much effort from Yamaha.
Mike

I currently have no service documents for the CVP-805/809. Presumably two "SWP70" tone generator chips are built into these models, just like in the Genos. However, since these CVP models have much more elaborately sampled Piano voices, I suspect that the entire built-in NAND Flash memory (presumably 6 GB in total as with the Genos) is required for the Preset voices. So there is probably no more memory available for additional Expansion voices.


Best regards,
Chris

[mikf]

Chris
You could be right, but my observation has been that many of these kind of decisions in Yamaha might be marketing rather than technology driven.
Mike

[wersianer]

I can't understand why Yamaha isn't finally streaming the sounds from the hard drive.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Why cant we load single sounds without destroying packs.  come on Yamaha!!
We can then stack them up on a usb ready to pick and choose

[ckobu]

We can load a single sound without destroying existing content. We can do this wirelessly via YEM or using Quick Instalation if we insert it from a USB stick.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chokbu
Which video contains this information?
I will go over and and have a Butchers (English term for having a look)
Later i will go over to CNN USA to see how that Amazon guy Jeff Bezos being blasted into space
Here in UK live from 12:30 GMT

All the Best
John

[ckobu]

I'm here all the time and watching from the sidelines.
Let them just fly, I don't like adventures of that type.
In my country it is said, praise the sea - stick to the end (coast). 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chokbu

I agree there, and surely i would not like a tank full rocket fuel burning my rear end!!
By the way which video contains the information on Utube?

All the best
John

[ckobu]

He he, and you still have to pay to burn behind you. 

Better translation, praise the sea - stay by the coast.

Where did we stop this with your problem?


Here I added via Wifi only one UVN file to the keyboard. In the same way you can add some other parts (sf2, Style, ppf ...)
https://youtu.be/yHxPPE5tQGw

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Burn Baby Burn!!!   ouuuch!!

Just want to know which of you video shows how wi-fi can load a single sound.

All the Best
John

[ckobu]

We write slower than we think. There is a link in the post above.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Thank's Chokbu i will report back later


All the best
John

[DerekA]

Adding a new voice to the installed pack seems easy enough - but what about when you run out of space? Do voices you deselect also get removed on a quick install?

I have never actually managed to get the quick install to work, I have to do a full install (3GB) every time. And it takes around 2-3 hours Maybe there is some corruption somewhere in one of the packs.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi chokbu

I looked at the video and i see that one.
What i should of said was why cant we import one sound file into the Genos without being in a pack.
This way we could save many sounds to Usb and have heavy samples to choose from, when we need them.
I must admit the latest YEM is slow, Musn''t grumble!!
Looks like you cannot import sounds separately into the Genos.
So if i had a pack with my samples in and imported into the Genos, i could save my sample pack to a USB stick.
If i erase the samples in Yem and make a new set in the same folder, re-import and i could then save another batch of samples to the USB stick.
But we are stuck again as we can only import packs!! with a ceiling of 3gig  cul de sac!! Wuga Wuga!!

All the best
John


All the best
John

[ckobu]

Adding a new voice to the installed pack seems easy enough - but what about when you run out of space? Do voices you deselect also get removed on a quick install?

I have never actually managed to get the quick install to work, I have to do a full install (3GB) every time. And it takes around 2-3 hours Maybe there is some corruption somewhere in one of the packs.

That's right, deselection will free up space in Expansion Memory. The video shows the process of entering material into the keyboard via WiFi. It is similar to Quick Installation but the process is completely different.
For quick installation, we use a USB stick and files that have the pQi extension.

Your installation speed is not good. There may be files that slow this down. I noticed this is the case with the Sf2 format. This is the speed I measured.

https://youtu.be/u_mhMk889pA

Hi chokbu

I looked at the video and i see that one.
What i should of said was why cant we import one sound file into the Genos without being in a pack.
This way we could save many sounds to Usb and have heavy samples to choose from, when we need them.
I must admit the latest YEM is slow, Musn''t grumble!!
Looks like you cannot import sounds separately into the Genos.
So if i had a pack with my samples in and imported into the Genos, i could save my sample pack to a USB stick.
If i erase the samples in Yem and make a new set in the same folder, re-import and i could then save another batch of samples to the USB stick.
But we are stuck again as we can only import packs!! with a ceiling of 3gig  cul de sac!! Wuga Wuga!!

All the best
John


All the best
John

Hi John,
  you have to follow my channel carefully  , as soon as 2.8.1 came out I emphasized in the video that it is slow and not used.

I showed adding one file. But you can also add more files to an existing Pack. You can throw out the ones you don't need and test what you need all the time. When you are satisfied, you will create an Installation file (ppi or pqi).

You can't run "heavy samples" from a USB stick. The USB protocol is very slow and therefore Waveform Packages must be installed in Expansion Memory.

Watch this video, somehow it seems to me that you do not understand everything that is needed.

https://youtu.be/abOb0fUIC2Y

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chobu

I will take another look
I see what you mean now


All the Best
John

[Drsun19]

I use Sample Robot as well and i have tried somehow to get light Sf2 libraries. The point is to sample what you need, i.e. maybe 5 notes maximum and the rest to complete it with the last note i mean C3 can be for C0 to C3 because these are notes that i'll rarely use. Also, i think that we are obssesive in sampling ans sampling and sampling...the reality is that we don't use everything we sample and we don't get the most of the Genos sounds which are also very good. My dream was to have some M1 sounds but 300mb for the sounds when the real M1 had less than 40mb capacity(IDK if that is true) i consider it a problem...I have some colleagues that have keyboards with less capacity and could sample the M1 sounds with less than 20 mb for 5 to 10 sounds and sound great with effects.

I have my genos full but the reality is that i don't use everything i have loaded.

Luis.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chokbu
Now let see if i have got this

So i can make packs in Yem and export to usb after editing.
I then load an Installation file from the Superior pack
If i do that it will erase all on the expansion.( so i will have to do this once).
When reformat done i now can add packs without using Yem.
So this way seems the best to load a lot of packs into the Expansion without too much fuss.
Is this right??



All the Best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I use Sample Robot as well and i have tried somehow to get light Sf2 libraries. The point is to sample what you need, i.e. maybe 5 notes maximum and the rest to complete it with the last note i mean C3 can be for C0 to C3 because these are notes that i'll rarely use. Also, i think that we are obssesive in sampling ans sampling and sampling...the reality is that we don't use everything we sample and we don't get the most of the Genos sounds which are also very good. My dream was to have some M1 sounds but 300mb for the sounds when the real M1 had less than 40mb capacity(IDK if that is true) i consider it a problem...I have some colleagues that have keyboards with less capacity and could sample the M1 sounds with less than 20 mb for 5 to 10 sounds and sound great with effects.

I have my genos full but the reality is that i don't use everything i have loaded.

Luis.

Hi Luis
Yes ,i just really want some sounds that i really want but the megabytes do mount up into gigabytes very quickly.
Sample robot is spot on. The sampled sounds are fantastic with a few adjustments.

All the Best
John

[overover]

Hi John,

I'm not sure if this has already been addressed in this (somewhat "confusing") thread:

A ppf Pack file can contain up to 128 Normal voices plus 128 Drum voices, but the ppf format can also be used to store just one single voice (or a few voices).

An sf2 (soundfont) file can also contain several (many) different voices or just ONE voice.

Both ppf and sf2 files can be imported into the YEM as a "Pack" (so that a new Pack is created automatically), but you can also import ppf or sf2 files as "Content" into an existing Pack.

If you are importing a self-created/self-sampled voice (which is initially available in sf2 format) into the YEM for the first time, I would do this with "Import Pack". After you have set various parameters according to your wishes in the YEM, you save this Pack (which only contains this one voice) in ppf format (using "Export Pack").

You can later very easily import these "single voice" ppf Packs into a new, empty or an existing Pack in the YEM in any combination (using "Import Content"). You also save these "Compilation Packs" with "Export Pack" as a new ppf file. If you only want to save certain voices (or only a single voice) of an existing Pack as a new ppf Pack, you only select the desired voice(s) in YEM and use "Export Selected Content as Pack".

So you only have to import an sf2 into the YEM once. Later you will only work with the ppf Pack files created from them (which, as I said, can also contain only one single voice, if required).


Best regards,
Chris

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chris
I am only trying to get sample packs over to the Expansion on to a 64 gig stick which is plenty over to the Expansion.
Once all over you have up to 64 gig to choose from if you want.
Looking at ChokBu or Caspers  video it looks like by importing the Installation file from the Superior pack and loading packs in from usb  a little more painless.
I can make samples and make packs in Yem and export them to usb to load them without using Yem and having to format
All the Best
John