SX700 and SX900 replacements

[artemike]

Hi everyone,

It's been almost 2 years (August 2019) since PSR-SX700 and PSR-SX900 were debuted. 
I am guessing it is about time they come up with new replacement models.   Right?

Are there any rumors of what might be expected and when ?

Also, for someone who might be interested in one of these models, do you think it is worth waiting for the new models to come with possibly extra features and capabilities and a higher price or buy the current models and take advantage of the discounted price which is available almost everywhere? 

Regards 
M

[Jeff Hollande]

Why new SX models yet ?

I may hope Yamaha are not coming soon with new SX successors. 
I am very pleased and happy with my SX900.

IMHO there is absolutely no need for an upgrade yet.

The SX900 offers me everything I want.
Why should they kill a champion but ... an extra free update would always be very welcome though. 😃

Best wishes, JH

[Fred Smith]

Hi everyone,

It's been almost 2 years (August 2019) since PSR-SX700 and PSR-SX900 were debuted. 
I am guessing it is about time they come up with new replacement models.   Right?

Are there any rumors of what might be expected and when ?

Also, for someone who might be interested in one of these models, do you think it is worth waiting for the new models to come with possibly extra features and capabilities and a higher price or buy the current models and take advantage of the discounted price which is available almost everywhere? 

It's not worth waiting.

The next model Yamaha introduces will be a new Genos, which I don't expect until 2023. Then you'll see a new SX a couple of years later.

Cheers,
Fred

[artemike]

I am asking because usually every two years they come up with a new model.

Thanks for your response

[mikf]

The cycle model on model is much longer than two years. Two years would be far to short to justify marketing, development and dealer inventory. As Fred says an update of the Genos will be next, by 2023 that will be about 5 years since launch. So the successor to Genos might be around 2028, and the SX replacement could be somewhere in the middle, ....2025??. Of course we might find that coming through a pandemic could have pushed these dates out even more. as to what will be in them, the clues will come when we see the Genos replacement, then there will be some speculation as to which features in the current and new flagship models might pass down to lower models.
Mike

[EileenL]

New keyboards have not been released every two years for a long time now.
I would not expect to see one for at least another two years.

[Amwilburn]

It's typically been about 3.5 years between iterations

PSR3000 late 2004 (based off Tyros 1, really cut into sales of T1, Yamaha learned their lesson)

S900 late 2007 (between T1 and T2; same chipset as CVP405)

s910 late 2009 (based of T2, but T2 strings and brass in mono; same chipset as CVP505)

s950 late 2012 (T3 with no SArt2, but added mono versions of the T4 drums. Same chip as cvp605, but with Audiostyles thrown in)

s970/975(same cpu) 2015 -- the s975 was not actually a new model; it was the s970 but with more user space, and 4 packs preinstalled. But I get how it makes it look like there's a new board every 3 years. Based off: T5 drums, T3 chipset but with with the T4 ensemble strings and brass thrown in. Or you can look at it as a T4 with most of the choir, all the solo strings, and solo brass, and all the Sart2 sounds removed, but with AudioStyles thrown in

sx900 late 2019 (essentially a T5 with no Sart2, but with live versions of Revo drums)

Fred is correct, they generally alternate with new flagship models first (Tyros/Genos) and then trickle down.
Tyros 1 late 2002
Tyros 2 late 2004
T3 late 2008
T4 late 2010
T5 late 2013
G1(T6) late 2017

Considering how expandable Genos is, yes it should have a much longer lifespan than any previous Tyros. Which also increases the gap time for new PSR; but they can always pull a s970/s975 where they release the same keyboard with a few more goodies thrown in.
How many PSR's can they squeeze in between the Tyros models depends on the 'jump' between them:
Tyros 1 was a big jump from PSR9000
T2 was a big jump as well; T3 added SArt 2 to T2 (and new drum kits) but without the SArt2, the changes were small
T4 was a huge jump from T3, but T5 was a small jump from T4; again mostly just a smattering of new Sa2 sounds, a few Sart solo string sounds, Audio Styles, and for the 1st time the option of 76 keys. However, making it work with Expansion Manager was a big deal.
G1 was again a large jump from T5

Mark

PJD could go into even more detail!

Mark

[Toril S]

I have the PSR 2100. It was released a year before the 3000, so we never know😀 But I think you are right.

[Amwilburn]

Yes, but again, just like the s970/s975, the PSR2100 and the PSR2000 were also nearly identical (both were based on the PSR9000)
The PSR2000 launched late 2001
The PSR2100 was late 2003, basically a stop gap right before the PSR3000 late 2004.

They've also done this with CVP: the CVP209 (late 2001) and the CVP210 (late 2003) were nearly identical, but they added a USB b port to the 210, and the piano sample was cleaner. Both shared the same physical hardware (as did the PSR970/975, and the PSR2100/2100) except for that USB port, but the 210 launched 1 year before the CVP309 (2004)

The PSR2000 had 181 styles, 810 voices vs the 2100 had 197 styles 818 voices (all 8 additions were Sweet! or Cool!; I remember there being a nice sampled Jazz Guitar that wasn't previously on the 2000). Both were the same otherwise; 64 poly, etc. except the user memory area from 1.4mb to 1.488 mb
Both used a ~32mb sample rom.

Mark

[SciNote]

A new release in less than 2 years?  Good luck.  Yamaha has been dragging its feet bringing out the successor to the PSR-E463 -- more than 3 years now and counting.  I'm sure the pandemic has had an effect, but I bet Apple and Samsung make sure they get they new great all-important smartphones introduced without a day of delay.

[kamil.gomolinski]

It's typically been about 3.5 years between iterations

PSR3000 late 2004 (based off Tyros 1, really cut into sales of T1, Yamaha learned their lesson)

S900 late 2007 (between T1 and T2; same chipset as CVP405)

s910 late 2009 (based of T2, but T2 strings and brass in mono; same chipset as CVP505)

s950 late 2012 (T3 with no SArt2, but added mono versions of the T4 drums. Same chip as cvp605, but with Audiostyles thrown in)

s970/975(same cpu) 2015 -- the s975 was not actually a new model; it was the s970 but with more user space, and 4 packs preinstalled. But I get how it makes it look like there's a new board every 3 years. Based off: T5 drums, T3 chipset but with with the T4 ensemble strings and brass thrown in. Or you can look at it as a T4 with most of the choir, all the solo strings, and solo brass, and all the Sart2 sounds removed, but with AudioStyles thrown in

sx900 late 2019 (essentially a T5 with no Sart2, but with live versions of Revo drums)

Fred is correct, they generally alternate with new flagship models first (Tyros/Genos) and then trickle down.
Tyros 1 late 2002
Tyros 2 late 2004
T3 late 2008
T4 late 2010
T5 late 2013
G1(T6) late 2017

Considering how expandable Genos is, yes it should have a much longer lifespan than any previous Tyros. Which also increases the gap time for new PSR; but they can always pull a s970/s975 where they release the same keyboard with a few more goodies thrown in.
How many PSR's can they squeeze in between the Tyros models depends on the 'jump' between them:
Tyros 1 was a big jump from PSR9000
T2 was a big jump as well; T3 added SArt 2 to T2 (and new drum kits) but without the SArt2, the changes were small
T4 was a huge jump from T3, but T5 was a small jump from T4; again mostly just a smattering of new Sa2 sounds, a few Sart solo string sounds, Audio Styles, and for the 1st time the option of 76 keys. However, making it work with Expansion Manager was a big deal.
G1 was again a large jump from T5

Mark

PJD could go into even more detail!

Mark

I think Yamaha will want to revive the market with the new G2 in 2021 or 2022, even if it is not a big jump. Or maybe they will want to improve at least the quality of workmanship?... Would do well to.

[pjd]

Why new SX models yet ?

IMHO there is absolutely no need for an upgrade yet.

The SX900 offers me everything I want.

We always love new hardware, but I largely agree with Jeff. Genos is keeping me happy and I doubt if I will toss it aside for a new shiny object.  I hope Yamaha continues to improve the current products and YEM. The wish lists are long and many requested features do not require a new hardware spin.

Yamaha has been dragging its feet bringing out the successor to the PSR-E463

I'm hoping that this delay is due to a major upgrade as Yamaha's competition has been quite active at the entry level. Yamaha gave the DGX a fresh look and major upgrade, and I hope they are giving the E4xx a fresh look, too. We'll see!

Best to everyone -- pj

[pjd]

PJD could go into even more detail!

Mark

Hi Mark --

Not too much to add. Both Genos and the SX series represent major, major revisions to the base hardware platforms, replacing the SH4 architecture with ARM for the host CPU and using the new generation SWP70 tone generator. Coupled with the revised user interface software, common code base and Linux OS, they are major improvements and breaks with the past.

Both hardware- and software-wise, Genos and SX are the major platforms going forward. A new model SX would be a spiff and are spiffs really worth the cost of replacing one's current instrument? Better to skip one or two spiffs and save money, but that's just my own opinion.  The current Genos is more than enough fun for me...

All the best -- pj

[blackpool]

Just my Impression here re. new models....

I personally think were on our way to history repeating itself ....as we saw with the death of the home organ market...I do hope I am wrong!  an overpriced, composite board with a built in touch screen will soon be a thing of the past as i see it

A decent controller board is all that is needed...  using an attached touch tablet for all the arranger material required...
both products are then easier and cheaper to interchange and upgrade individually.

I was always at a loss to understand why the touch screens on all recent Yamaha arranger models  needed to be 'built in' at all.
I for one, would have much preferred to have been able to use my own screen and the products could have been much more affordable and flexible.
Keith

[mikf]

Hi Keith
I see it differently. Despite the names, arrangers and home organs are really the same - integrated electronic keyboards with a wide range of sounds and auto accompaniment. Development of technology allowed much smaller, lower cost packaging, and that changed the products to be more versatile and portable. We don't call them home organs any more and the manufacturers may be different companies, but they are fundamentally the same thing. And far from the market dying it has expanded exponentially as a result of the lower cost, better availability and convenience.
As time has passed more and more peripheral features have been added like recording, sound creation, but at the core it has remained the same. Although there are always technology competent people and enthusiasts who like the idea of putting stuff together, the overwhelming target of this market is people who want a self contained product you plug in and play. I don't see that changing fast at all.
In fact the main change I see coming is that maturing of the technology is allowing lower and lower cost versions that almost do everything most people need. So it's not the flagship arrangers like Genos that will grow the market but the  lower end keyboards like the E series, and all the low cost look alikes we see from people like Casio. These are reaching the price point of being impulse/throw away buys, and attractive in the less affluent areas of the world. And this makes average consumers "putting things together" less likely, not more likely
Of course that doesn't mean things stay the same forever, they never do. But it's sometimes surprising how long things stay the same. TVs are a great example. They are cheaper, better, bigger, but still fundamentally do the same thing as the originals we bought in the 1950s. Despite many predictions they would be replaced by things like virtual reality, it has not happened.
Often technology development actually extends the life of products rather than replaces them, because the potential alternatives get less attractive, not more attractive. Many years ago experts were telling us that PCs would soon be on the way out as the demand for memory and processing power made them uneconomic. They predicted distributed computing taking over with relatively dumb terminals connected to central computing power. It never happened because technology advances made memory and processing power small and cheap. So PCs became enormously powerful, while still getting cheaper and smaller.
Mike

[blackpool]

Thanks Mike - Its great to hear you and a very good response! with my opinion not just shot down in flames.... Yes ...things have become much cheaper and better value, offering great value for money now with much more tech £ for £ .. I suppose many will always want a 'self contained unit' and that's not something I had considered.

Keith

[Amwilburn]

...
A decent controller board is all that is needed...  using an attached touch tablet for all the arranger material required...
both products are then easier and cheaper to interchange and upgrade individually.

I was always at a loss to understand why the touch screens on all recent Yamaha arranger models  needed to be 'built in' at all.
I for one, would have much preferred to have been able to use my own screen and the products could have been much more affordable and flexible.
Keith

That actually exists! the Yamaha CSP (use the same chipset as the PSRs970/CVP705) but you provide the touchscreen with an iPad, iPhone or Android. And they're really popular here, essentially for the reasons you suggested!

Roland also makes stage pianos and use an external app to provide the accompaniment; it's a neat idea, but considering how you don't make anything off the free app, whereas millions of $ in R&D gets poured into new flagship Yamaha models (which then get's trickled down into more budget friendly models eventually), the accompaniments sound much more realistic on the Yamahas (but again, Roland's styles from their app are free, and will get the job done).

Interestingly the Korg Oasys was created with your exact suggested concept in mind; but in practice, instead of being able to readily upgrade the sound libraries, the internal pc hardware was too limiting, and there wasn't enough return on investment on new sounds on the board, meaning it's now sadly out of date (one of my Tyros customers has been trying to get rid of his for almost 20 years now)

But maybe now, with sample ram being more affordable, a concept like that (expandable pc in a board) that concept would work.

One of the most interesting takes on this was the Korg X50, which came with a free VST library of *itself*.... meaning you could use the keyboard to play live gigs, but if you wanted to record, while you still could take the 1/4" audio outputs and hook into an interface or audio recorder, you could just hook up USB to a PC and it would a generate lossless virtual synth of itself (no noise from cables)!

Mark

[Denn]

They predicted distributed computing taking over with relatively dumb terminals connected to central computing power. It never happened because technology advances made memory and processing power small and cheap. So PCs became enormously powerful, while still getting cheaper and smaller.

Sad to say but this has now come about. Almost anything you do has to be done "one line" with the grand master Microsoft. I try to stay clear of MS products for that reason.
Denn.

[nonchai]

I only got my ( almost new ) SX 900 for under £1400 from REVERB. So not in a hurry to get its next iteration.

But... the next one I would for one - want to have built in support for audio-over-USB interface functionality.

Personally I dont need it to have D/A and A/D analog inputs and outputs - I just need - like the DGX 670 - the ability to send audio data from all the style tracks etc into a DAW over USB digitally - and also - at least - be able to take a stereo digital stream over USB from a DAW, PC or tablet - and mix it with anything in the keyboard and put it out the speakers and line outputs.