PSR-E463 song tracks settings and effects

[johnluke]

Hello all,
I have a question about the way the PSR-E463 manages song recording track by track and individual voice/track settings.
In short, I understood tracks 1 to 5 can be used for melodies, meaning I can setup on the instrument a main voice together with all its settings (i.e. octave, pan, reverb/chorus, harmony/arpeggio etc...) and then record the performance for that track, and then move to the next track.
My question is if all of these settings for the main voice are then recorded in the track or lost when I move to the next track with another main voice (but also different octave, pan, reverb/chorus, harmony/arpeggio settings etc...)
So that in other words, if tracks 1-5 are completely independent in terms of voice setup and effects or not, i.e. if it's possible to record a voice with harmony and deep reverb on track 1 and then a voice with arpeggio and chorus on track 2 and then a voice with -2 octaves on track 3 etc...
In the manual I only read there are limitations for the DSP (only recorded on tracks 1 or A) and sampled voices (only recorded on track 1).
But no mention regarding indipendency or not of other main voice settings and harmony/arpeggios.
Thanks!

[johnluke]

I reply myself as I had time to do some tests 
So, almost any setting of the main voices is independent when doing track recording with the PSR-E463, meaning that tracks will sound exactly the way you hear while playing, and settings will be permanently recorded.

So for each voice (each track) you can record the following settings independently:

• volume
• sound modification (cutoff, resonance, attack, decay)
• harmony/arpeggio type and volume (I assume arpeggio velocity and quantize as well however I didn't test them)
• octave shift
• pan
• reverb and chorus level

As explained in the manual, track 1 can also record:

• sampled voices
• DSP effect

The following settings are also recorded independently track by track when used during performance playing:

• pitch bend effects
• live sound modification with knobs

Now, the only parameters that are NOT permanently and independently recorded are (weirdly) the reverb and the chorus types. Meaning that any of the 5 tracks will need to have the same reverb and chorus *types*, however each track can have an independent *level* setting for both effects.

So that, incredible "little-workstation" features for this small beginner keyboard!... 

[pquenin]

Reverb and Chorus are global effects, so you can only have one Reverb type and one Chorus type at a time for all the tracks.
Only the sends levels are per track. It's the way it works on all workstations or DAWs.

[SciNote]

Correct.  A way to think of this is that things like the filter and envelope generator are set for each note of each track.  But the combined sound of all the tracks is then sent through separate reverb and chorus effects units, so that you cannot have a separate type of reverb or chorus for each track.  You can have a separate level, however, because you can set essentially how much of the signal/sound of each track goes through the reverb and chorus, versus bypassing it.

One thing I've wondered is what the keyboard does if you do try to record tracks with different reverb or chorus types.  I assumed that it just applies the most recent setting you used for whatever track you just recorded to all existing tracks of the song, but maybe it does something else, such as just revert to whatever was used on track 1 or something like that.

Another important feature, and something else that makes these keyboards very powerful for the money, is that the melody tracks can record both the main and the dual voice (but not the split voice).  And then, the settings discussed above (like filter and envelope) can not only be set independently for each track, but also for the main and dual voices of each track!  This is noteworthy because that other portable keyboard company (*cough* Casio *cough*) has keyboards where they advertise a "17 track" sequencer, but all but one of those tracks can only record the main voice (what they call "Upper 1").  Even the new CTS-500 and CTS-1000V models, which have a 6 track sequencer kind of like the Yamahas, limit 5 of those tracks to recording just the main/Upper 1 voice.

To me, that is a serious limitation, because using the main and dual voices (or on the Casios, Upper1 and Upper2) and combining them is a great way to get a complex, professional sound -- similar to using dual VCO's on an analog synthesizer.  So, if you cannot record that entire sound, it really limits how complex your on-board sequencer recordings can be.  Of course, you can always just forget about the onboard sequencer and just record to a multi-track DAW, but I like being able to get most of a multi-track recording done on the keyboard itself, and then use the DAW to add extra tracks and effects.

[casiokid]

SciNote: "But the combined sound of all the tracks is then sent through separate reverb and chorus effects units, so that you cannot have a separate type of reverb or chorus for each track.  You can have a separate level, however, because you can set essentially how much of the signal/sound of each track goes through the reverb and chorus, versus bypassing it."

It's probably me, or the way I'm reading this last sentence Bob, but could you explain it a little more as this last sentence seems to contradict the former?

Thanks in anticipation

[SciNote]

Well, keep in mind that I might not be spot on as far as technical accuracy.  But as I understand it, the reverb and chorus are separate modules that the sound of all of the combined tracks are fed through.  Once the keyboard determines the sound to be played for each note of each track based on all of the data for filter, envelope -- as well as the other parameters such as volume, octave, pan, tone, and of course, what note is being played -- it then sends the entire output together through the chorus and reverb modules.  So, since it all goes through one chorus module, only one chorus type, such as Chorus 1 or Flanger 2, can be set for the whole mix.  Same for the reverb -- all the  music of all the tracks is going through it, so only one type, such as Room or Hall, etc., can apply to all the tracks at once.

However -- and this is where I'm kind of winging it -- while the sound of all 6 tracks is going to the one chorus module and one reverb module, you can tell the keyboard to send only part of the sound of each track through those modules while the rest of the sound of the track bypasses the module.  This is essentially what you do when you set the chorus and reverb levels of each track (and even of each part, such as the main and dual voice of each track).  So, you've got one chorus module and one reverb module, but you can tell each part of each track how much it is going to use those modules.

I'm sure someone here can give a more accurate description as far as technical details, but that is basically how I believe it works.

[DerekA]

You're right Bob.

There are 2 ways effects can be used in a mix. "Insertion" effects are available to only one part. "Send" (or System) effects are available to multiple parts, and for each part you decide how much to send to the effect.

The higher level keyboards provide both types. For example Genos has 28 insertion effect blocks, 1 send block (aka Variation effect) only available to style/song, plus the 2 "system" send blocks for reverb / chorus which are available to all parts. You can in fact use a reverb as an insertion effect if you want, so if you want a special reverb on one part only you can assign it as an insertion effect and send zero to the system reverb.

But E463 has only the 2 "system" send blocks.

[SciNote]

Thanks.  I thought that was essentially how it all worked.  The PSR-E463 does have another set of 10 DSP effects, but I forget exactly how they're assigned.  I believe they affect the main voice.

The new PSR-E473 has improved greatly on that front -- now having two DSP "slots" or "channels", in addition to the standard reverb and chorus effects.  One of the DSP slots affects the main voice, while the other one affects a part of the keyboard you select, such as the whole keyboard (main, dual, split), the style/backing sounds, or the sampling pads.