Problem in the sample reader (resolved)

bernamato · January 21, 2021, 10:49:13 AM

Problem in the sample reader, stored internally in Genos / PSR.
I have placed some bass samples (1 bar) on some notes from C1 to B1. I want them to play following the chords of the left hand. Everything seems to work beautifully except I accidentally hear the sample being played an octave above or below the root note of the sample with doubling the speed or halving the reading speed.
If I do the same thing using an external sample player (kontakt) I have found that the notes played from the keyboard correspond exactly to the note samples (C1 or Eb1 for example) without altering the pitch of the sample.
I infer that the sample reader inside the keyboard does not work as expected and that for some reason when I install the package of my samples on the machine via Expansion Manager the reading of the samples by the keyboard does not correspond to the results I get if the same samples I play them with the keyboard with kontakt.
Can you confirm that you too have had this problem due to the malfunction of the Yamaha sample player?
I omit the CASM settings that have been correctly set otherwise I would have had problems when I play the keyboard with an external sampler (kontakt), a problem that I repeat I have not noticed. This post will address him directly to Yamaha if they hear us .....

ckobu · January 21, 2021, 10:57:36 AM

I don't think the loop for bass line tones is properly defined. Check that part out.

danand · January 21, 2021, 11:15:04 AM

You don't give us enough details about the situation, at least according my opinion, in order to solve
the mystery...
I'd like to know, for example:
Ho to you trigger the samples? (are part of a style (do you replace the "bass part of the style" with you samples?)? do you trigger them on the "left" part?)

bernamato · January 21, 2021, 02:51:00 PM

Exactly danand. I play a style with the bass part substitute with my own samples in a specific range from C1 to B1 (CASM section) The sample hear nice when I played the samples in kontakt moving chords with my left hand. Each sample is 1 bar long.

ckobu · January 21, 2021, 03:21:15 PM

As I said. SampleBas guitars must be processed as a loop. If it is only one bar long, it cannot sound right because it has no duration.

bernamato · January 21, 2021, 03:35:25 PM

I will try to set the samples as loop. Which software do you suggest? Please, I am not comfortable with recycle. Could you suggest any others? I used the format sf2 to my bass samples. Thanks

ckobu · January 21, 2021, 03:45:03 PM

I use Awave Studio. But you can use some others as well.

bernamato · January 21, 2021, 05:51:37 PM

I tried awave studio, thank you. The problem remained. If I use RTR in STOP the results is good Sometimes the note doesn't trigger the sample but I understood that the problem plaguing the yamaha arranger is the RTR which somehow triggers the sample and does so on a random basis, sometimes causing the pitch to vary an octave above or below by doubling or halving the sample rate.
I kindly ask the Yamaha engineers to review the underlying algorithm to allow users to trigger samples in a linear fashion as any sampler would. Automatic chord recognition is the main reason I use an arranger but in this case it fails.

ckobu · January 21, 2021, 06:03:10 PM

Does the same problem happen if one of the factory bass sounds is used in that style?
Maybe it would be good to set up that Style to look at its structure. The bass sample is not important.

bernamato · January 21, 2021, 06:29:48 PM

I will do it. Only one consideration: I use a 1 bar sample in a specific zone (ie C1-B1) and the bass used in the factory styles use for each note a sound. It's different approach. I use the style as multisampler tracks to play loop samples. When I use the chords recognition of keyboard with kontakt the note play exactly in the right position of my zone and it sounds good without altering the pitch. Thanks for your support.

ckobu · January 21, 2021, 06:49:54 PM

How do you connect the keyboard to Kontakt?

When the bass is playing in Keyboard Style, you need to set the range from C1-B2 (Note Limit Low C1 and Note Limit High B1) because you only have samples of those tones. Watch this part of the video.
https://youtu.be/LnYs0n88g3E?t=386

bernamato · January 21, 2021, 07:14:40 PM

Via USB to MAC.
I tried this setting: Fixed Pitch selected. Its play much better now. See attachment. I use to set the range from C1 to B1. Thanks a lot.

[attachment deleted by admin]

ckobu · January 22, 2021, 03:46:33 AM

There is something wrong.
I'd like to see the Style with which you run this sample bass.

You miss the tones C #, D, E, F #, A and B at all octaves.
"Stretch" the basic tones to cover these holes.

bernamato · January 22, 2021, 11:44:04 AM

I'll try to stretch and let you know.Thanks a lot.

bernamato · January 22, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

No problem solved. Why do you sugget me to strech sample horizontal to cover the blank space? The fact is that there is a problem with the functionality on keyboard. (GENOS/PSR). This is real. Thanks for your help.

overover · January 22, 2021, 04:24:05 PM

Hi bernamato,

for my better understanding:

Are your bass Samples single notes (as usual), or is each of your Samples an Audio Loop (which produce a "riff" consisting of several notes and at a certain fixed tempo)?

Best regards,
Chris

bernamato · January 22, 2021, 04:43:23 PM

My C1 sample note in attachment. 1 bar long.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ga-4wn0rBp15XtDH0ZF8Q1TnQO537LOD/view?usp=sharing
When I play with my left hand the chord Cm, the note C1 play the sample above. Every time I change the chords, I play a different sample linked to that specific note. WhenI play the chords on my left hand and use an external sampler (kontakt in my case) the note send correctly the corrispondent note to kontakt without altering the pitch. With the internal sample reader PSR 975 in my case but I bet it's the same with Genos, sometimes the player plays the root note of the chord correctly but alters the pitch by doubling or halving the velocity of the sample, effectively altering it. Why? I believe that there is a general problem which is not better identified which leads to the correct reading of the samples.

bernamato · January 22, 2021, 05:12:51 PM

video: external kontakt. the chords I play with my left hand are in red color. The midi send exaclty what I play with the keyboard
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xB1ZAtXknYqgIifD70I3rJPQQtj9hLCq/view?usp=sharing
senza titolo: short example of how the keyboard sounds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zneaEriLInLAcC0CzaoxX0-jSWZP3oj6/view?usp=sharing

bernamato · January 23, 2021, 05:17:31 AM

Sorry. Now is public access to the files

ckobu · January 23, 2021, 05:47:18 AM

I still didn't understand what the problem was but now it's a little clearer to me.
First of all, I would like you to set the Style you use in PSR so I can see its structure.
I think Chris guessed well, you obviously use Riff on the Bass Guitar channel. Yamaha Style in its basic structure is not intended to play that way. This can be sorted out but is very complicated.
Watch the video
https://youtu.be/7zQaOUsZHW0

You mention all the time that Kontakt plays well. The connection you use then is based on a completely different principle, it can't be compared to the Style that only plays in Yamaha.

Please set your original Style you have on PSR.

bernamato · January 23, 2021, 06:07:10 AM

File attached AUS Style. Thanks for your support.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vj5uhJM79As9ZKZNUv9Gl9gyR4eToz3M/view?usp=sharing

bernamato · January 23, 2021, 07:01:38 AM

I knew the technical you explain in your video. Infact, now the aus file sound well. It's respond to my major and minor chord well. I do not understand why we need to use this technic to play riff sample. I hope that Yamaha simplify the process. Thanks for your support.