New Yamaha cvp 805 - I'm not happy

Brad · December 05, 2020, 08:19:53 AM

I replaced my yamaha cvp 609 with the new yamaha 805. I was disappointed by the acoustic piano sounds. . .in my opinion the acoustic piano sounds of my old yamaha 609 sounded a lot better. You all talk about it enthusiastically but I'm not satisfied at all and I'm thinking of selling it. I'm very disappointed, but it's my fault for not testing it first. I bought it online and trusted Yamaha.What do you think? Am I crazy, or is there someone who agrees with me?
Thank you for your help
Marco

LarsMoss · December 05, 2020, 09:33:18 AM

Quote from: Brad on December 05, 2020, 08:19:53 AM
I replaced my yamaha cvp 609 with the new yamaha 805. I was disappointed by the acoustic piano sounds. . .in my opinion the acoustic piano sounds of my old yamaha 609 sounded a lot better. You all talk about it enthusiastically but I'm not satisfied at all and I'm thinking of selling it. I'm very disappointed, but it's my fault for not testing it first. I bought it online and trusted Yamaha.What do you think? Am I crazy, or is there someone who agrees with me?
Thank you for your help
Marco

You can trust your own ears. It must not sound better because it is a newer model and higher type. This can sometimes be an illusion and you expect that it must be better sound from it. Look on the market of all samples of older instruments that you can load in newer digital instruments. Many people like the sounds from just these "oldies" . The sound from digital instrument can also sound too clear and therefore not be as natural as in the normal state.
/Lars

Rick D. · December 05, 2020, 10:41:42 AM

If you want the best sounding Yamaha Digital Piano try out the Avant Grand N2 Hybrid.
Here is a link for them. https://faustharrisonpianos.com/product/yamaha-n2/ Don't let the price scare you, they will work with you, especially if you have a new trade.
I have had one for 5 years now and love it. It uses the same key bed as their 12-foot acoustical grand (N1 is the Grand,, N2 is an upright). The sound is amazing, especially with headphones where room acoustics don't affect it.

Rick D.

mikf · December 05, 2020, 10:54:42 AM

At the end of the day you are the customer and your perception is what counts. But I have a CVP705 and a 605 and I am certain that the piano sound is virtually identical. And I have tried the 809 in a showroom, and it was very similar to the 705/605. Not better, not worse, and that was why I didn't change. There were other improvements, and its a great keyboard but want enough to tempt me. Of course that is pretty typical, the differences between recent models is incremental rather than groundbreaking.
There is a discussion under the topic 'the future of keyboards ' in the Genos - General section that you should look at where I and some others share their thoughts on the piano voice in the various Yamaha keyboards. We are about to do some comparison tests on the forum to test this.
I have played the Avant Garde when it first came out, and it is a super digital piano. But I already have two superb grand pianos and the purpose of the CVP is to do the things the real grands cannot do so it had no point for me. Everyone has their own reasons for what they prefer, but good though it is at the price I couldn't help thinking why I would not spend that on a real piano?
Mike

Rick D. · December 05, 2020, 11:14:51 AM

Mike,

You're correct the Avant grand is only a piano. I would have to buy a bigger house to have a real grand. I bought a CVP for my nephew and his 4 kids, and it does a lot more than just be a piano. I have a Genos for that.

Rick D.

mikf · December 05, 2020, 11:57:08 AM

Quote from: Rick D. on December 05, 2020, 11:14:51 AM
You're correct the Avant grand is only a piano. I would have to buy a bigger house to have a real grand.

I'm laughing because you dont have to buy a bigger house, just modify the one you have. Believe it or not, that's what I did. I was not happy about how the piano looked in our room, so I knocked down a wall and added a large bay window area to accommodate the piano!!! Now it doesn't just look better, but I can sit and play with a great view. The builder and our friends thought I was mad, but what they didn't realize is that the piano cost about 4 or 5 times as much as the building work, so it all made sense to me. LOL
Mike

Kenneve · December 05, 2020, 11:58:34 AM

I agree with Mikf, you are the customer and it your perception that counts.
However I upgraded from CVP605 to CVP805 some time back and I would certainly not change back.
To my ears all the sounds, sound better. Having said that, much of my playing is on headphones, but I believe the speaker system on the two models are identical.
As I've said elsewhere, the clarity and definition is what counts for me, like listening to FM radio after years of AM.
Maybe the 809 is somewhat better, I don't know, could not afford it anyway😀

mikf · December 05, 2020, 01:20:54 PM

I believe the biggest differences 805 to 809 is a superior keybed and different case.
Mike

Rick D. · December 05, 2020, 01:57:29 PM

Mike,

LOL, if I did that I would have to find another place for me to live!

Trust me, I have thought about getting rid of all the furniture in the living room and putting in a nice Yammy 10 footer. The main reason I went for the Avant Grande was we are retired now and thinking of getting out of the house and into a condo, where headphones would come in handy.
Inwill run your idea by the wife. If I don't make it back, you'll know she didn't go for it.

Rick D.

Toril S · December 05, 2020, 05:00:53 PM

Try ti look in the legacy folder on your 809. The old piano voices will be there.

mikf · December 05, 2020, 06:01:36 PM

Not if it is based on a different sample.
Mike

Kenneve · May 05, 2023, 06:15:02 AM

Quote from: Kenneve on December 05, 2020, 11:58:34 AM
I agree with Mikf, you are the customer and it your perception that counts.
However I upgraded from CVP605 to CVP805 some time back and I would certainly not change back.
To my ears all the sounds, sound better. Having said that, much of my playing is on headphones, but I believe the speaker system on the two models are identical.
As I've said elsewhere, the clarity and definition is what counts for me, like listening to FM radio after years of AM.
Maybe the 809 is somewhat better, I don't know, could not afford it anyway😀

With the announcement of the CVP900 series Clavinovas, I'm now looking at the possibility of part exchanging my CVP805PE for the CVP905PE, but at the moment i cant get my head around the differences/improvements if any.
Yes, I realise that the 2 main piano voices have been improved and also changes to the pedal action, but what about the rest, have the non piano voices been tweaked.
Other than the change of colour on the panel lights, there does not seem to be much difference in appearance.
So, is it worth changing, what am I going to gain?
Obviously I've yet to hear one and of course the cost to change will probably be the deciding factor.

mikf · May 05, 2023, 07:15:39 AM

The change between successive models in the Yamaha range is seldom huge.
Mike

Amwilburn · May 05, 2023, 12:45:33 PM

Well, the 609 had a huge 7 way speaker system (1st CVP with a subwoofer, a tradition that continues to this day) and the 605/705/805/905 all have a smaller 4 way without a sub. So of course the x09's are going to sound better. If you listen to the piano sample on headphones though, the 609's sample was re-used for the 705, and the 709's was re-used in the 805. Doesn't that automatically make it better? Subjective... the 709 piano was thicker and more detailed, but there was a lack of smoothness, which the 705/609 possessed. But I'd say the speakers make a bigger difference, which is why I suggested trying it on headphones... it should sound better on headphones. But going from a 7 speaker system CVP to a 4 speaker system CVP is always going to sound weaker.
The 809 sounds incredible, btw. Smoothest 7 way speaker system yet; so I'm not surprised, it looks like they re-use the same system on the 909.

Mark

Kenneve · May 05, 2023, 01:42:23 PM

Quote from: Amwilburn on May 05, 2023, 12:45:33 PM

The 809 sounds incredible, btw. Smoothest 7 way speaker system yet; so I'm not surprised, it looks like they re-use the same system on the 909.
Mark

Fully understand the advantages of the 09 speaker system, but I'm afraid the cost is beyond me, also I haven't got the room for it
No, What I am after is the detail differences between the CVP805 and the CVP905, in particular, if there is any differences in the non-piano voices, (I know the names are the same, but the sounds may have been tweaked somewhat)
I assume the speaker systems are identical and as you say playing on headphones, (which I do most of the time) makes the 05/09 differences largely immaterial.

Whitecolin11 · May 05, 2023, 03:21:01 PM

you keep on talking about size 809 is no bigger just has a better speaker system if you go to the 905 there will be no improvement in sound. get a 709 i loved it and i have a genos and pa5x the speaker system on the 709 made the sounds much richer than the genos

Kenneve · May 05, 2023, 03:50:17 PM

As I said, the cost of the 09 is in my view considerably more and beyond my budget, also the 05 series cabinet has a flat back, which suits its location against a wall in my lounge.

Amwilburn · May 06, 2023, 12:36:46 PM

Quote from: Kenneve on May 05, 2023, 01:42:23 PM
*snip*
I'm afraid the cost is beyond me, also I haven't got the room for it
No, What I am after is the detail differences between the CVP805 and the CVP905, in particular, if there is any differences in the non-piano voices, (I know the names are the same, but the sounds may have been tweaked somewhat)
I assume the speaker systems are identical and as you say playing on headphones, (which I do most of the time) makes the 05/09 differences largely immaterial.

Firstly, they are the same size...? When we had them side by side, the 805 was maybe 1/2" shallower than the 809. I know the spec says nearly a 1" difference in depth, but that's what we found. But yes, prices are definitely different. As for the other sounds being the same? Not at all. The CVP805 uses the same sound library as the PSRsx900, the 809 uses the Genos.... Kinostrings, revo drums, lots of new brass, Super Articulation 2 sounds, etc, are all on the 809 but not the 805. However, on headphones, yes, the difference is less significant. But if you don't care about the Super Articulation 2 sounds, solo strings/brass/woodwinds (which aren't as good on the 805/905) then that makes little sense that you like the 805 less than the 609; is it just the piano? Both have really good piano...

AFAIK there is no difference between the non-piano sounds. But even everything they tout as new (pianos based on the CLP785, chord looper... remember the CLP785 launched half a year before the CVP800 series) were already in the 809... so I'm a little baffled. It looks like both the 809/909 are based on the Genos sound chip; and both the 805/905 are based on the PSRsx900 chip.

But we won't actually know til we get our hands on one this fall.

The half pedal and new lights *are* different though.

Mark