How to convert Korg pa midi files to playback correctly on Yamaha PSR S970?

[rodrigo.b]

Hi everyone. Sorry if I posted this before, but I really can't find a way to playback some Korg pa midi files that I have on my PSR S970. I tried with Midi Optimizer and other pc software but I can't playback correctly the midi files.  So Please I really need your help, maybe you know a way to convert the midi files to the General midi standard or something like that. Thank you in advance!

[Fred Smith]

Hi everyone. Sorry if I posted this before, but I really can't find a way to playback some Korg pa midi files that I have on my PSR S970. I tried with Midi Optimizer and other pc software but I can't playback correctly the midi files.  So Please I really need your help, maybe you know a way to convert the midi files to the General midi standard or something like that. Thank you in advance!

I don't think you're going to be able to do this.

A midi file is a set of instructions -- play a trombone, c note for a quarter note, etc. Your problem is that the voice you requested on the Korg won't be the same as the voice on the PSR.

Unless the midi was recorded looking for standard midi voices (an SMF file), it will never sound the same on a different instrument.

Cheers,
Fred

[overover]

... I really can't find a way to playback some Korg pa midi files that I have on my PSR S970. I tried with Midi Optimizer and other pc software but I can't playback correctly the midi files.  So Please I really need your help, maybe you know a way to convert the midi files to the General midi standard or something like that. ...

Hi Rodrigo,

Yamaha arranger keyboards are based on the XG and XF MIDI file standard (developed by Yamaha). XG is also backward compatible to the GM MIDI file standard, and Yamaha keyboards additionally support the (Roland) GS standard and the GM2 standard. (Yamaha middle and top class models also use the XG standard, but with various features added. Therefore, e.g. a Genos, Tyros5 or PSR-S/SX MIDI file cannot be converted to GM/GM2 properly.)

Basically you will always have problems, if you want to play a midifile that is specially adapted to a certain keyboard model (no matter if Yamaha or Korg) on ​​a model from the other manufacturer.

Should e.g. If a Midi file programmed especially for a Tyros5 is used on a Korg Pa model, there are problems if e.g. Yamaha Mega Voices or Super Articulation Voices are used. (Such files cannot be "back-converted" into the GM format "with little loss".)

In principle, it should be the same the other way around: A MIDI file programmed specifically for a certain Korg Pa model can certainly contain Voices or Sy*** with which Yamaha keyboards cannot do anything (and which cannot be converted into the GM standard).

It may be possible to convert Korg Pa MIDI files (directly on the keyboard or in a PC tool) to the GM/GM2 standard. I recommend doing this step first.

Then you load the file into the Midifile Optimizer XI (or an earlier version, but it shouldn't be too old ).

It is important that the two ticks for "Automatic sounds converter" and "Automatic sy*** insert" are set in the Optimizer settings. In addition, the desired target keyboard (in your case the PSR-S970) must of course be selected. (See also the attached picture.)

If the file doesn't sound "perfect" directly after loading it into the Optimizer (monitored via the keyboard connected to the PC via MIDI), the Optimizer offers you many options to optimally adapt the file to your S970. In addition to simply exchanging Voices, setting the Volumes / Effects / DSPs, there are also various editors (e.g. Event Editor, Key Editor, Drum Editor, Drum Splitter) that you can use as desired. You can even record new (your own) Tracks with the Optimizer. In some cases it can of course be necessary to use a real DAW such as Cubase, but meanwhile almost all standard MIDI file processing steps can also be done (and usually better or faster) in the Optimizer.


As you can see, there is unfortunately no "magic bullet" for converting MIDI files between the various standards. Ideally, you should acquire as much knowledge as possible about MIDI file programming. Then you can adapt almost every source file to the desired target keyboard.


Best regards,
Chris

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[rodrigo.b]

Hi Rodrigo,

Yamaha arranger keyboards are based on the XG and XF MIDI file standard (developed by Yamaha). XG is also backward compatible to the GM MIDI file standard, and Yamaha keyboards additionally support the (Roland) GS standard and the GM2 standard. (Yamaha middle and top class models also use the XG standard, but with various features added. Therefore, e.g. a Genos, Tyros5 or PSR-S/SX MIDI file cannot be converted to GM/GM2 properly.)

Basically you will always have problems, if you want to play a midifile that is specially adapted to a certain keyboard model (no matter if Yamaha or Korg) on ​​a model from the other manufacturer.

Should e.g. If a Midi file programmed especially for a Tyros5 is used on a Korg Pa model, there are problems if e.g. Yamaha Mega Voices or Super Articulation Voices are used. (Such files cannot be "back-converted" into the GM format "with little loss".)

In principle, it should be the same the other way around: A MIDI file programmed specifically for a certain Korg Pa model can certainly contain Voices or Sy*** with which Yamaha keyboards cannot do anything (and which cannot be converted into the GM standard).

It may be possible to convert Korg Pa MIDI files (directly on the keyboard or in a PC tool) to the GM/GM2 standard. I recommend doing this step first.

Then you load the file into the Midifile Optimizer XI (or an earlier version, but it shouldn't be too old ).

It is important that the two ticks for "Automatic sounds converter" and "Automatic sy*** insert" are set in the Optimizer settings. In addition, the desired target keyboard (in your case the PSR-S970) must of course be selected. (See also the attached picture.)

If the file doesn't sound "perfect" directly after loading it into the Optimizer (monitored via the keyboard connected to the PC via MIDI), the Optimizer offers you many options to optimally adapt the file to your S970. In addition to simply exchanging Voices, setting the Volumes / Effects / DSPs, there are also various editors (e.g. Event Editor, Key Editor, Drum Editor, Drum Splitter) that you can use as desired. You can even record new (your own) Tracks with the Optimizer. In some cases it can of course be necessary to use a real DAW such as Cubase, but meanwhile almost all standard MIDI file processing steps can also be done (and usually better or faster) in the Optimizer.


As you can see, there is unfortunately no "magic bullet" for converting MIDI files between the various standards. Ideally, you should acquire as much knowledge as possible about MIDI file programming. Then you can adapt almost every source file to the desired target keyboard.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris, thank you very much. I will try again with the optimizer program (the demo version) using this settings.

[overover]

Hi Rodrigo,

please make sure that ...
   - one of the MIDI templates "All Parts" or "KBD & Style" is selected on the S970,
   - the S970's USB-to-Host terminal is connected to the PC (via a USB type AB cable),
   - the Yamaha USB-MIDI Driver is installed on your PC,
   - and in the Optimizer XI's MIDI Settings "Digital Workstation 1" is selected as the "Output Instrument". ("Digital Workstation 2" will NOT work properly in this case!)


Best regards,
Chris

[rodrigo.b]

Hi Rodrigo,

please make sure that ...
   - one of the MIDI templates "All Parts" or "KBD & Style" is selected on the S970,
   - the S970's USB-to-Host terminal is connected to the PC (via a USB type AB cable),
   - the Yamaha USB-MIDI Driver is installed on your PC,
   - and in the Optimizer XI's MIDI Settings "Digital Workstation 1" is selected as the "Output Instrument". ("Digital Workstation 2" will NOT work properly in this case!)


Best regards,
Chris

It doesn't work   I hear some strange thinks on the guitar and drum tracks

[ckobu]

Hi Rodrigo
Let's put on a midi so we can take a look at it.

[overover]

It doesn't work   I hear some strange thinks on the guitar and drum tracks

Hi Rodrigo,

then the only way for you is to learn more about the Voice technology and MIDI file programming technique of KORG keyboards. (Or, as suggested by ckobu, upload such a MIDI file to a file hosting service and then post the link here. Then we can look into the file ...)

As I mentioned in my previous post, middle and top class models (also) use Voices or Drums whose key mapping and/or other programming is not supported by other models (and especially not by keyboards from other brands).

For example, a Genos MIDI file can contain Revo! Drums, Mega! Voices and/or Effects that also cannot be used on an S970. Such compatibility problems do not only exist across manufacturers, but of course also within the existing Yamaha models. A newer Yamaha model is usually always compatible with the Voices of the predecessor models (e.g. all Tyros models for Genos, all PSR-S models for PSR-SX900).

By the way: If you use purchased, commercial MIDI files, ask the manufacturer. Maybe you can download the files again in a S970 compatible format. Some manufacturers of commercial MIDI files offer this service free of charge (or at a significantly reduced price).


Best regards,
Chris

[Toril S]

I make MIDI files on three different Yamaha keyboards, and can confirm what Chris says. Genos REVO drums do not sound nice on the S975😀

[rodrigo.b]

Hi Rodrigo
Let's put on a midi so we can take a look at it.

Hi, thank you, here is the midi file
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cjX2bh1Z6B4c8Vg_XLN0JwtJ4oE6QVik/view?usp=drivesdk

[C-clef]

Hi Rodrigo,

As there have been no other responses to your posting of the MIDI file, let me have a go.
First let me say, however, that I don't own a PSR-S970 so can't really help in much detail.

For a start, the file you posted starts with 25 Sy*** commands that are Korg specific.
I've had a quick look around but I've been unable to find a manual, on-line, that decodes these commands so that they can be rewritten for the PSR.

The second thing that is odd about the file is that it uses the "Bank Select MSB" command (to select an instrument) that is GM2 compatible, but then selects an unavailable LSB and Program Change. This seems to be the case for all of the 14 channels.
Weird, but I suppose that's the way Korg works. I'm just not used to it.
It also assigns both channels 10 and 11 for percussion. This isn't unusual.

Attached you'll find an instrument list contained in what's known as the meta data, but it doesn't appear to completely tie up with the actual channels.

Don't know if anyone else can offer some help here?

Regards,
Colin

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[rodrigo.b]

Hi Rodrigo,

As there have been no other responses to your posting of the MIDI file, let me have a go.
First let me say, however, that I don't own a PSR-S970 so can't really help in much detail.

For a start, the file you posted starts with 25 Sy*** commands that are Korg specific.
I've had a quick look around but I've been unable to find a manual, on-line, that decodes these commands so that they can be rewritten for the PSR.

The second thing that is odd about the file is that it uses the "Bank Select MSB" command (to select an instrument) that is GM2 compatible, but then selects an unavailable LSB and Program Change. This seems to be the case for all of the 14 channels.
Weird, but I suppose that's the way Korg works. I'm just not used to it.
It also assigns both channels 10 and 11 for percussion. This isn't unusual.

Attached you'll find an instrument list contained in what's known as the meta data, but it doesn't appear to completely tie up with the actual channels.

Don't know if anyone else can offer some help here?

Regards,
Colin

Thank you! 

[rodrigo.b]

I have a lot of Korg Pa midi files but I can't play them correctly on my S970 or CVP809