Fantastic News For Genos Users- YAMAHA GENOS Version 24.01KN

[Des O]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to bring this great news from Kris Nicholson a fantastic professional keyboard player who is bringing his project to us FREE! if Yamaha let him.

His brief from the video-

My Version of the Ultimate Yamaha Genos expansions

I call this ( Genos 24.01KN ) the KN stands for Kris Nicholson

Basically every keyboard that I own I try to make the best of it and to its fullest level and upgrade it so it performs even better than when it came out the box

I went through my whole sound library and hand picked every single sound at the same time editing and fine-tuning it to its realist point

Over 2000 more dynamic sampled sound 40,000 more waveforms 200 more Drum kits

Sample sounds from other famous keyboards like Korg, Roland, Casio, Kurzweil, Technics, Emu, Alesis, Vox, Farfisa, General Music

New pianos Steinway, Fazioli, Mason & Hamlin Baldwin, Bosendorfer, Wurlitzer, Samick, Vintage Pianos & seriously Out Of Tune 1920s saloon Lester Upright Including a authentic Schoenhut toy piano and a twangy Cabel Nelson drop action Spinet

New Vinyl DJ dance genre of sounds and vintage synthesizers including a vintage toy keyboard group like Casio Tonebank CT-615 to SA-20 Vintage Yamaha PSS-51/PSR-500  PSS-270, PSR48 PSR-4600 SFX and 8 bit sounds from video games

New choir vocal operatic tenors and vocal phrases

New sound effect kits for realism and characteristics of the real thing

New Drum kits that cater to every genre with dynamics in each key variation

When I went through every single sound I made sure that it caters to all genres of music around the world with dynamic nuances

This AWSOME upgrade takes up all of the use a memory  ram of the Genos  but with all those voices you don't really need another keyboard or workstation for a long while

I am working on newer styles and newer multipads that will shine does workstation to its fullest potential limits


Check it out

https://youtu.be/1KS_xQYefrU

[EileenL]

I watched your video and it is kind that you want to give these voices away but I think you will need to split into separate packs for different sections to make it possible to upload them.

[Misu]

Hi <Des O>,

Great collection of voices, probably I miss the part with <for free> and probably I don't understand haw works the rules in this world.
If KN made by himself this collection nothing coded nothing locked why he need the approval of Yamaha to to share his work for free like expansion pack?
I simple don't understand <if Yamaha let him> - I need approval to install my packs in Yamaha keyboards and I don't know?

Best regards
Mihai

[EileenL]

He has used some Yamaha materiel which he has tweaked a little for his packs so these will be copy write to Yamaha.

[Bachus]

He has used some Yamaha materiel which he has tweaked a little for his packs so these will be copy write to Yamaha.

Not really, as its not illegal to sample a steinway grand, its not illegal to sample a yamaha keyboard either.

He did not use any copyrighted matterial, he sampled generic sounds, so far no judge has deemed this illegal..


Again, he sampled them, did not copy them..

[Bachus]

If you cut them in little packs, they indeed will be very usefull..
its great when people share their labour for free..

[SciNote]

Not really, as its not illegal to sample a steinway grand, its not illegal to sample a yamaha keyboard either.

He did not use any copyrighted matterial, he sampled generic sounds, so far no judge has deemed this illegal..


Again, he sampled them, did not copy them..

This sounds like a very impressive collection, but how could he have personally sampled all of those sounds?  40,000 waveforms?  Even if it only took one minute to sample each one, that is 40,000 minutes -- about 27.8 days without sleeping or eating.  How about all of those vintage keyboards, like the PSR-48 or PSR-500?  Some of those are over 30 years old.  Not to mention all of the non-Yamaha models mentioned.  Does he have access to all of these keyboards, where he could take direct samples?  Not to mention the multiple samples per voice required on many sounds to accommodate the differences in sound when the key is hit harder, as well as the different timbres throughout the range of the keyboard.  And again, it would take years to accomplish.  There must have been access to existing libraries.  I guess it is possible that he has created digital copies of these samples over the years as he has owned various keyboards, but that still seems like an awful lot of work for one person.

[Bachus]

This sounds like a very impressive collection, but how could he have personally sampled all of those sounds?  40,000 waveforms?  Even if it only took one minute to sample each one, that is 40,000 minutes -- about 27.8 days without sleeping or eating.  How about all of those vintage keyboards, like the PSR-48 or PSR-500?  Some of those are over 30 years old.  Not to mention all of the non-Yamaha models mentioned.  Does he have access to all of these keyboards, where he could take direct samples?  Not to mention the multiple samples per voice required on many sounds to accommodate the differences in sound when the key is hit harder, as well as the different timbres throughout the range of the keyboard.  And again, it would take years to accomplish.  There must have been access to existing libraries.  I guess it is possible that he has created digital copies of these samples over the years as he has owned various keyboards, but that still seems like an awful lot of work for one person.

Yes, he has access to all these keyboards, he has one of the largests keyboard collections in the US, just google Chriss Nickolson..   and where it comes to samplins, there are programs like sample robot that make this process very smooth..  its doestake about a day to sample a whole keyboard, its all automated..

Chriss has been sampling hisinstruments for years now, as long as i follow him on the webs


I don't understand the hostillity towards him, he is a womderfull nice guy..  wanting to share his lifes work..

[danand]

Yes, he has access to all these keyboards, he has one of the largests keyboard collections in the US, just google Chriss Nickolson..   and where it comes to samplins, there are programs like sample robot that make this process very smooth..  its doestake about a day to sample a whole keyboard, its all automated..

Chriss has been sampling hisinstruments for years now, as long as i follow him on the webs


I don't understand the hostillity towards him, he is a womderfull nice guy..  wanting to share his lifes work..

I saw the video. He mention countless times that many, many, many of the samples he use are from other people sample libraries.
He sample himself an enormous amount of sounds but half of the material he like to share is material from other companies (and very likely copyrighted material...)
There is no hostility towards no one.
He mention this detail on his presentation more than 10 times.

I don't think that Yamaha will be involved in this due to copyright issues, but if he like to share this material and you like to download it, fine! I have no problem at all!
Possibly no-one from the beholders of the rights on the copyrighted material will search for you, and no-one will ask you to delete this material.

But please bear in mind that if you plan to use this material in order to produce commercial music, then, since today the big companies scan every day the commercial music by AI robots for copyright infringements , it is very possible the holder of the copyright material ask you to provide proofs that you have the right to use the material in question.
So yes, if you're serious with your music production, MAYBE, you can have troubles in the feature if you decide to use the copyrighted part of the material.

[edemarfilho]

I agree with Bachus .... I believe that unique sounds, for a single note, are not owned by any manufacturer. In the kontakt there are numerous samples of this type and I am not aware of any process involving these attitudes. Congratulations on wanting to share this fantastic amount of sounds with others. Congratulations, and I believe there will be no financial return from this. Congratulations....

[EileenL]

I was not aware that anyone had accused anyone of piracy anywhere  on this thread so why has it been planted in peoples minds.
A member asked why Chris  had mentioned asking permission from Yamaha and I suggested a reason why he may have said this.

[Bachus]

I was not aware that anyone had accused anyone of piracy anywhere  on this thread so why has it been planted in peoples minds.
A member asked why Chris  had mentioned asking permission from Yamaha and I suggested a reason why he may have said this.

This is his answer

https://youtu.be/EpXk7NrnALw

[filoaman]

However, accusing Chris of piracy because he sampled some sounds he wants to share
Can be considered as quite rude...

Until this point no-one in this thread accused someone for anything.
The only I read is a few members asking if is possible for a single person to do all this work alone and another member mention that the person in question (Chris) mention in his video that he use "samples from other libraries". I can personally confirm this since I also hear the person in question on his presentation video mention many times that he use material from other sources other than his own samples.
So please beware your language and don't mis-quote other members.

so please don't try to tutor me...

Please read first the copyright laws and then get a professional advice from an experienced lawyer on copyright issues, before express this misleading opinion you have.
In the video I saw, there is a huge copyright infringement issue.
Maybe you plan to use this material only for personal use and this is not a big problem.
Other members maybe plan to this this material for commercial proposes. 
So please don't misleading other members with your strict opinion about issues you don't know all the aspects.

If someone is to blame for people using samples in the Genos..
Its Yamaha, as they offer the sample ram..

This is a completely misleading opinion!
The companies offering the ability to do samples, but not for sampling copyright material !
They offer you the ability to do LEGAL samples, under the international laws!
Don't force you or anyone other to broke the law because they offer you the ability to make samples!
Is like blaming companies making knives, that someone use the knives they made in order to kill some one!
Please!  Think before you express this type of erroneous opinions.

But the minute Yamaha sells a grand piano, people can do with it what they want
And there is no differnece between the sound of a grand piano and the sound of a synthesizer..

Why do you think Yamaha hasn't sued Korg for having Yamaha grandpiano samples in the kronos?
And why do you think Fazzioli doesn't sue Nord for the sampkes they use?
And why are there MOOG samples in the Genos and the Montage?

This is only the one part of the equation.
Anyone can make samples of ACOUSTIC instruments (like Pianos, Flutes, Guitars etc.) without any restriction.
So all the samples the person in question make by him self from acoustic instruments are perfectly legal! No question about this!
You can also make samples of ANALOG synths (like Moog, Juno even DX-7). This is because analog synths use as sound source raw oscillators.
IN any case the "presets" of late analog synths (like Jupiter, JX3P) are copyrighted (Roland already sued many small companies in the past and won). You can't sample exactly the same sound. But if you just  change a few parameters and modify the sound (lets say modify the LFO of the sound or the PWM value) you create a new sound and you have the right to sample this sound for commercial proposes.

That's why Kronos has samples from Yamaha acoustic pianos, that's why every modern synth has a "DX7 El.Piano" style sound. Because this is legal. This are samples from Acoustic instruments or Analog synths.

On the other hand though....
If E-Mu invest time and money in order to sample an acoustic piano and then YOU take the same samples and distribute them again in any form (for money or for free) you  broke the copyrights law!!! It is that simple !!!!
It is a different story using YOUR samples and a completely different story using the samples of E-MU. It is illegal to use this samples of E-MU. This is the law.

The person in question (Cris) mention many times on the presentation video that he use (probably without permission - if he has permission covering this distribution is another issues) samples from E-MU and material (beat loops) from other copyrighted sample libraries.

So please stop misleading the members of this forum.

It's is a different question if YOU or any other member wants to download and use this material taking the appropriate risk, and another totally different story to mislead the members of this forum with erroneous declarations.

If Cris is a friend of you, please ask him to get IMMEDIATELY, legal advice from a specialized lawyer in copyright laws. The video he  has public on YT is a crime evidence and the holders of the copyrights of the material in question can use this evidence in the court.
So if you know this person advice him to take down the video from public view!

[filoaman]

Read the laws and then Realx....
But first read the laws....

[Dromeus]

The legal aspects of sampling are complicated. And so is jurisdiction in general. I'm not a lawyer, just been following discussions on that subject for years. I think, filoamen did raise some important points. It matches statements from people who professionally sample and produce sounds for a living. Those people have a particular interest not to infringe copyright laws, which is not a minor breach of law and may cost you a lot of money if the case is taken to the court.

Many years ago I came across a site that offered some Vox Continental samples for free download, which the creator had sampled from his own instrument. I downloaded the samples and created a T3 voice which IMHO was quite cool. So I contacted the owner to grant permission to use his samples for a Tyros voice and offer it as a free download. He was kind enough to allow me doing this. I included in the download a note about the owner of the samples, how to contact him and a statement that the samples were used by permission. I think this procedure was legally correct.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

HI
I can understand if a sound is unique like copying a voice or a passage from a song to be copyrighted.
Who is going to know if you sampled a Jupiter keyboard for example from various companies unless their are codes inside them.
I am with Pino .RELAX !!
With all that goes on in this world, i do not think that John Doe is on top of the hit list.
To me their is a lot of music out there that is pinched from others gone unoticed
For example i came accross Tony Joe white's  song Lake Placid .
A passage in that was an extract  plagiarized to  make a Cadbury's Chocolate advert    The line -- "The crumbliest, flakiest, chocolate tastes like chocolate never tasted before'.
You can clearly hear it in the break.
There is loads of it going on.
Life is too short to worry about it!!
By the way I like Lindt chocolate best of all


Off me soapybox now!!!

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Pino]

I've sampled 20 of the best voices from my other keyboards
Now I am playing the voices on my SX,
What does that make me, a criminal.👹

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

Does YAMAHA sample all their samples or do they "beg, steal and borrow"

I'm only asking, how does it work?

Pino

[DerekA]

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

I think if I started singing, they would *definately* phone the police

[Bachus]

I've sampled 20 of the best voices from my other keyboards
Now I am playing the voices on my SX,
What does that make me, a criminal.👹

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

Does YAMAHA sample all their samples or do they "beg, steal and borrow"

I'm only asking, how does it work?

Pino

You are right Pino..
Jsut do as you see fit, and none will take notice..

Some people are a little over reacting..
So its better not to react to them..
Should have seen this yesterday..
But then the harm was allready done..

[Bachus]

This is his answer

https://youtu.be/EpXk7NrnALw

So anyone check out this video?
His collection of keyboards is incredible..

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I've sampled 20 of the best voices from my other keyboards
Now I am playing the voices on my SX,
What does that make me, a criminal.👹

Do you think someone from my audience at one of my gigs will recognise some of the voices and phone the police. 🚓

Does YAMAHA sample all their samples or do they "beg, steal and borrow"

I'm only asking, how does it work?

Pino

You cannot be a criminal Pino
I thought Greek Gods were exempt!!!


All the best



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Des O]

This sounds like a very impressive collection, but how could he have personally sampled all of those sounds?  40,000 waveforms?  Even if it only took one minute to sample each one, that is 40,000 minutes -- about 27.8 days without sleeping or eating.  How about all of those vintage keyboards, like the PSR-48 or PSR-500?  Some of those are over 30 years old.  Not to mention all of the non-Yamaha models mentioned.  Does he have access to all of these keyboards, where he could take direct samples?  Not to mention the multiple samples per voice required on many sounds to accommodate the differences in sound when the key is hit harder, as well as the different timbres throughout the range of the keyboard.  And again, it would take years to accomplish.  There must have been access to existing libraries.  I guess it is possible that he has created digital copies of these samples over the years as he has owned various keyboards, but that still seems like an awful lot of work for one person.

Kris is a professional keyboard player since he was a kid, over the years he has sampled all the different keyboards he has, and still has. He a has posted another video today explaining how he does it and shows off his collection of keyboard retro some of them. A very clever bloke and kind if he is giving his work to everybody free.

[Des O]

I was not aware that anyone had accused anyone of piracy anywhere  on this thread so why has it been planted in peoples minds.
A member asked why Chris  had mentioned asking permission from Yamaha and I suggested a reason why he may have said this.

I think Kris mentioned this himself at the start as he did not want Yamaha accusing him of anything out of order. If Yamaha are not doing it for the users then why not, all the keyboard samples are out there and generically available, now all on one keyboard, Yamaha missed a trick!

[Des O]

Until this point no-one in this thread accused someone for anything.
The only I read is a few members asking if is possible for a single person to do all this work alone and another member mention that the person in question (Chris) mention in his video that he use "samples from other libraries". I can personally confirm this since I also hear the person in question on his presentation video mention many times that he use material from other sources other than his own samples.
So please beware your language and don't mis-quote other members.

Please read first the copyright laws and then get a professional advice from an experienced lawyer on copyright issues, before express this misleading opinion you have.
In the video I saw, there is a huge copyright infringement issue.
Maybe you plan to use this material only for personal use and this is not a big problem.
Other members maybe plan to this this material for commercial proposes. 
So please don't misleading other members with your strict opinion about issues you don't know all the aspects.

This is a completely misleading opinion!
The companies offering the ability to do samples, but not for sampling copyright material !
They offer you the ability to do LEGAL samples, under the international laws!
Don't force you or anyone other to broke the law because they offer you the ability to make samples!
Is like blaming companies making knives, that someone use the knives they made in order to kill some one!
Please!  Think before you express this type of erroneous opinions.


This is only the one part of the equation.
Anyone can make samples of ACOUSTIC instruments (like Pianos, Flutes, Guitars etc.) without any restriction.
So all the samples the person in question make by him self from acoustic instruments are perfectly legal! No question about this!
You can also make samples of ANALOG synths (like Moog, Juno even DX-7). This is because analog synths use as sound source raw oscillators.
IN any case the "presets" of late analog synths (like Jupiter, JX3P) are copyrighted (Roland already sued many small companies in the past and won). You can't sample exactly the same sound. But if you just  change a few parameters and modify the sound (lets say modify the LFO of the sound or the PWM value) you create a new sound and you have the right to sample this sound for commercial proposes.

That's why Kronos has samples from Yamaha acoustic pianos, that's why every modern synth has a "DX7 El.Piano" style sound. Because this is legal. This are samples from Acoustic instruments or Analog synths.

On the other hand though....
If E-Mu invest time and money in order to sample an acoustic piano and then YOU take the same samples and distribute them again in any form (for money or for free) you  broke the copyrights law!!! It is that simple !!!!
It is a different story using YOUR samples and a completely different story using the samples of E-MU. It is illegal to use this samples of E-MU. This is the law.

The person in question (Cris) mention many times on the presentation video that he use (probably without permission - if he has permission covering this distribution is another issues) samples from E-MU and material (beat loops) from other copyrighted sample libraries.

So please stop misleading the members of this forum.

It's is a different question if YOU or any other member wants to download and use this material taking the appropriate risk, and another totally different story to mislead the members of this forum with erroneous declarations.

If Cris is a friend of you, please ask him to get IMMEDIATELY, legal advice from a specialized lawyer in copyright laws. The video he  has public on YT is a crime evidence and the holders of the copyrights of the material in question can use this evidence in the court.
So if you know this person advice him to take down the video from public view!

I don't think hes breaking any laws on copyright IMO, in that context any artist playing a keyboard in public is, Elton John for instance playing piano, so do you think he owes royalties to the keyboard manufacturer? I for one am grateful he is doing this.

[EileenL]

Thanks for the link Bachus,
  He certainly has a great collection of keyboards. It is not as if he is trying to sell his samples and steal some one else's Bread and Butter. What on earth is all this hostility about. Where are the moderators of this site.

[Pino]

In the next 10 years this forum will look so different
It will be more about samples and swapping samples
Everything is changing and the next Genos will have sampling on board
If your into iPad apps then you will know what's going on.

Pino

[Joe H]

There are many companies that have sampled vintage keyboards and sell the samples as WAV or SF2.  Does anyone know if they pay royalties?

Joe H

[EileenL]

I still think there will be people out there that want to keep up there skills of just playing music for the love of it and the great feeling it gives you.

[filoaman]

I don't think hes breaking any laws on copyright IMO, in that context any artist playing a keyboard in public is, Elton John for instance playing piano, so do you think he owes royalties to the keyboard manufacturer? I for one am grateful he is doing this.

Please read again carefully what I wrote.
I don't mention nothing about "public performance"
I also mention that acoustic instruments (like piano) and analog synths are copyright free. 
I don't mention that anyone owns royalties for playing a specific in instrument.

You don't read and only criticize.

In the collection  in question there are HUGE issues with copyright infringement.
This is international law. This is not what i believe or you believe.
If you want to use this material is under your own risk, I have no problem.
Is the same when you pass a red light on the street.
If a policemen see you he will issue a fine, if not, no problem
Exactly the same here. You can use this material forever even for commercial proposes and maybe no-one will take notice about this. And maybe you release a tune on Spotify using the copyrighted material (I repeat NOT ALL THE MATERIAL from Cris collection is copyrighted) and maybe you receive a notice from the local court for copyright infringement.

Do it at your own risk.

The issue I have with a few members here is, that they don't understand how serious is this.
They just laugh and try to low the importance of this issue to a ridiculous level.

But please bear in mind that what anyone write in public stay in public and maybe another member can form the opinion that copyright it is not important and he/she can copy anything.
This is quite dangerous.

If you don't know about the laws, don't make strong decelerations and don't provide misleading advice.

Laws on a society are in order to live all together in balance.
If you don't like a law, depending on the part of the world you live, you can  use the powers you have (vote, demonstrations, participation on unions  etc.) trying to change the law.
Braking the law is not the solution. Is bad for the society and soon or later someone will brake another law and maybe in this case you will be the victim. This game is dangerous.

Furthermore the most dangerous of all is providing misleading advises to other members which maybe brake the law in the future following you erroneous advice.

[terryB]

In the next 10 years this forum will look so different
It will be more about samples and swapping samples
Everything is changing and the next Genos will have sampling on board
If your into iPad apps then you will know what's going on.

Pino

Hi Pino the Tyros 2, if I remember correctly, had an entry level sampler which did not appear on subsequent models

Cheers Terry