Selecting GS voices

[jugge]

Hi,

Quick question about GS vocies.

I want to use some GS voices in my external sequencer and use MSB, LSB and program change messages to select them,
but GS voices doesn't show that info when selecting them from the Genos song mixer and there is no info in the data list.
All other voices - including GM and XG - show this information, but not GS voices. Anyone know if it's possible or do I need to use Sy*** messages?

Thnaks
/Jugge

[SeaGtGruff]

GS voices are "owned" by Roland. Yamaha includes them on some of their keyboards for the sake of compatibility-- that is, so MIDI files which were created on or for Roland keyboards using GS voices can be played back on Yamaha keyboards. Roland does the same thing with XG voices, which of course are "owned" by Yamaha.

I'm not sure whether Yamaha actually uses different sound samples for the GS voices, or whether they simply map a given GS voice to the closest-sounding XG voice-- and vice versa with Roland, whether they simply map XG voices to the closest GS voices. I've asked that question in the forums before, and if I remember correctly the answer I got was that yes, the GS voices are simply mapped to the closest XG voices, rather than having unique sound samples of their own on the keyboard.

If that's correct, then there's no practical benefit for using GS voices on a Yamaha keyboard, other than if you want to create a MIDI file which would work on Roland keyboards, because whenever you selected a GS voice you'd actually be getting an XG voice.

As far as the Bank MSB/LSB and Program values for selecting GS voices, I wonder if Yamaha doesn't display or print them because they're "owned" by Roland? In any case, you should be able to get a list of those MIDI values by going to Roland's website and downloading a voice list for a Roland keyboard that's GS compatible.

[jugge]

Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can get a hold of the data list from Roland's website.
Regarding the GS vocies, I think - at least to my ear - they are better sounding than the normal GM voices and there is of cause more variations than the 128 GM voices.

The reason I asked in the first place, was that I listen to a midi file that was using GS voices, but the midi program change messages in this file was just for the normal GM voices.
I then saw that there was some sy*** data included as well in the file, so I figured out the sy*** changed the keyboard to GS mode or something.

Cheers
/Jugge

[SeaGtGruff]

On Yamaha keyboards the GM voices are actually a subset of the XG voices, which the XG documentation refers to as "capital" tones. In particular, there are 128 XG voices which have Program Change values of 0 through 127 (which are usually displayed and listed by Yamaha as 1 through 128), and which have Bank Select MSB and LSB values of 0, and those 128 voices directly correspond to the 128 GM voices.

I imagine that Roland does the same thing with their GS voices, such that 128 of the GS voices directly correspond to the 128 GM voices.

Likewise, I believe the original 128 GM voices are a subset of the 256 GM2 voices.

Anyway, if the GM, GM2, and GS voices which are available on Yamaha keyboards are actually just XG voices-- that is, where the Bank Select MSB/LSB and Program values for the GM, GM2, and GS voices have been mapped to select the nearest equivalent XG voices-- then the reason why the GM voices selected by the MIDI file sound much better might simply be due to the specific voice parameters and effects used. Yamaha's XG voices can sound very, very good, but it seems like Yamaha usually sets the volume levels way down on the XG preset voices, which makes those voices sound "weak" in comparison to the panel voices. But if you create a user voice that selects a GM (or XG) voice and tweak the volume, reverb depth, chorus depth, and other voice-related parameters, you can get some very good results.