Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.

[Joe H]

Hi Joe
Does anyone know what is in the latest updates for Stylemagic and Midiworks.

All the best
John

I don't know John.  I have made many suggestions over the years.  My latest idea is Export and Import individual style parts in Channels Manager. (similar to Export and Import entire Sections in Sections Manager)  He liked it.  This would allow us to save to disk any style Part and Import it into another style.  Similar to Style Creator Assembly. Someone else suggested being able to draw controller data in the multieditor (piano roll) with the mouse rather entering one event at a time. Other suggestions have been to be able to record directly into StyleMagic like a DAW. But I doubt we will ever see that capability, because StyleMagic is just an editor; not a sequencer.

I suggested in the past he include support for Multi Pads but he didn't implement it. Since that time I discovered we can load a MP into MixMaster and pass it to StyleMagic for DEEP editing, then send it back to MixMaster and save it.  If we change the extension from .pad to .mid we can load a MP directly into StyleMagic, there is also the possibility of converting the MP to a 4-part style and saving it.  Lot's of possibilities!

Joe H

[Gunnar Jonny]

......... I also told him that I personally thought StyleMagic is better software than EMC StyleWorks for Yamaha which sells for 199 Euro.

So far I have not tried Stylemagic, and therefor cannot say anything abot what's best or not, but EMC and XT universal has been regulary updated since middle of the 90'ies till today, and I've never been charged for any extra fee.
That said, EMC may need to take some steps further into the new models, but I guess all audio stuff make a difference.

I can see Dan has gone the 'subscription way' with vArranger as well, but I still think both a relative high price at the product and then add subscription fee for support and updates may mostly catch the users that already have bought the software.

Probably not a fair comparision, but if i.e. look at MS Office. Buy it for a relative high price, and the price is for the pack and updates / fixes for a looong time. You will not get next major upgrade. If subscribe, no high start price, install pack at several computers for a monthly fee that is 1/24 part of the full pack. Always the newest and updated software.
That's the way more and more softwaresuppliers do it. Choose between buy a version, or monthly/yearly subscriptions to stay continious updated.

[Joe H]

Here is the latest communications with Thomas:

Joe H

=====================================================================================================

Hi Thomas,

I've been thinking about your last comments. I understand what a subscription is. I think it is the wrong way to go.  There has been discussion on PSR Tutorial Forum about your proposed changes. As I stated before, if you don't make an update in one year with subscription, people will NOT buy a subscription again. 

You would be better off raising your prices for your software. I think StyleMagic is a much better program than EMC StyleWorks.  StyleMagic has great Voice Editor, Drum Editor, CASM Editor, multieditor, Channels Manager, Sections Manager, OTS Editor, etc.

StyleWorks price for Yamaha version from EMC is 199 Euro. 

http://www.emc-musicsoftware.com/epages/62511965.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62511965/Products/stwxt_0001/SubProducts/stwxt_0001-0001

Here is my suggestion:

1. Raise price on StyleMagic to 100 Euro
2. Charge small amount for updates: 5 to 6 Euro (we can review updates in Demo Version before we buy)

You have great software.  Users want to see more improvements.  This is just MY suggestions.  Please ask other users for their opinion too.

I would be willing to pay a small fee for next update, but NOT a subscription. I think most people would EXPECT an update at least once a year with a subscription. If you cannot deliver a yearly update, I believe you will loose customers.

I wish you continued success with StyleMagic and MidiWorks software. Everyone understands the hard work that goes into writing software code and testing it.

Kind Regards,
Joe Hlifka

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Thomas' response:
==============

Hi Joe

In fact, you are right, I have rarely updated in recent times, mainly because the program is almost complete.
I have to think about it yet, your suggestions are good, but I don't want to raise the initial price strongly.

I'm finishing testing version 3.0.2 of StyleMagic YA.
Next week I will send a link to the update to all my clients (free of charge).

These are the improvements:
v 3.0.2
Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
Multieditor - the controllers selection has been extended (details)  for the Copy and Delete functions,
Main window - added SCP and FPS file formats,
Main window - added Slovak language,
Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,

v 3.0.1
Channels manager - added copying parts between sections,
Channels manager - added access to the CASM Editor,
Mixing console - fix problem with PLUS voices for S975 and S775,

If you know those interested, you can post it on forum on my behalf.
Thank you.

Regards
Thomas

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Do not bother with EMC Styleworks as I get excuses

It has stopped working for me since the last few Windows 10 updates .
This is over the top priced really and needs a major overhaul in my opinion
It used to work with just a few glitches ,but now i get a pop up box telling me

Invalid _Device name 263() WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? and what can you do about it???

I have a fast Windows 10 I7 computer with plenty of ram and no other software complains like this program.
I am finding Stylemagic more than stable. Rock solid in fact. The only thing is to make a style it is a little long winded.
Klaus needs to look into  EMC Styleworks. It was such an easy program to make Styles, but now utter useless to me and for well over £100 a total waste of time.
Still no word from Klaus to put me right . He goes on to say use the Winamp checkbox.
I do not want Winamp  as i have Yamaha drivers and that should talk between The Genos and the computer Styleworks
You do not need a sound box when just using the Genos and the computer.
For the price i paid for EMC Styleworks i expect more than just workarounds.

All the best
John

All the best
John

[Joe H]

... I am finding Stylemagic more than stable. Rock solid in fact. The only thing is to make a style it is a little long winded...

I gave up on trying to make styles from MIDI files. I use StyleMagic as an editor only and to convert Multi Pads to style Parts that I can then use with Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard.

I looked at the v3.0.2 Demo.  Thomas has added a lot more controller options in the piano roll.  The pencil tool is nice too and there is an eraser.  You can draw controllers in with the pencil or use it to point and click adding just one controller event at a time with greater accuracy.  I'm glad the next update/upgrade will be free.

Joe H

[Joe H]

I checked out the improvements for v302

These are the improvements:
v 3.0.2
Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
With the pencil we can now draw controller data in any style Part and also use it the same as the mouse to add CCs one at a time

Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
This is helpful for placing single controller data and Voice messages for accurate timing position

Multieditor - the controllers selection has been extended (details)  for the Copy and Delete functions,
Many new controllers including Art1 and Art2 messages

Main window - added SCP and FPS file formats,
This refers to Open File Menu

Main window - added Slovak language,
New Language

Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,
This applies to both OTS Editor and Piano Roll multieditor... now we have access to our pack Voices too (like in Voice Editor)

It's icing on the cake!

Joe H

[dsvroland]

Hello friends, I am really disappointed with this situation, but as I said at the beginning, I understand that Thomas needs to earn money and feel insentivated to continue developing the programs. On the other hand it is bad that we were notified from the beginning that the updates would be free.

I have been a user of StyleMagic and MidiWorks for 6 years, and in fact I still found a bug in StyleMagic converting a MIDI to Style, selecting for example the part of Main A, I switch to Main B, Main C, and so I finish, then I change my opinion and change the selected part of Main A, again I change my mind and put back the first selection (measures) I had made at the beginning, then the Main A is a little out of position when I press on Play to hear that selection. And it does not resolve to make Undo, this does not solve the problem.

Another part that would be good is to manually change position of the notes from the Events List, placing in a specific M:B:T.

I just have a big question, how the updates and upgrades will work.

With my experience at Musitek (SmartScore) I had a simple version, one day I wanted to switch to the Pro version, I had to buy each update and then the upgrade. The point is, if I don't buy updates for a long time afterwards, will I have to pay all of them to be able to have the latest version?

Cubase charges upgrades following the steps: 8.0> 8.5> 9.0> 9.5 and so on. Before reaching the major change, updates are free.

I believe that Thomas still has a lot to think about it.

[Joe H]

Hello friends... I believe that Thomas still has a lot to think about it.

It's real easy to criticize... isn't it? (especially if you don't have all the facts and your methodology is a bit flawed)



Joe H

[Aquilauno]

If I can add my insignificant opinion. I believe that Thomas cannot be made to weigh an error of evaluation after eight years of free updates, and we all understand that the commitment to keep updated and improve a program is a job that must be recognized and rewarded. But I think Thomas needs good advice now. When selling subscription programs, the price of the software is usually adequately low, this is to entice the purchase and the profit is based on licenses. However, these are products that have a large target (e.g. an antivirus) and therefore have a widespread and widespread distribution. In the case of Style Magic I don't know how much it could get with the paid license and how many customers it could lose ... thus obtaining the opposite effect. So it is important to understand what the right price of the software can be and what the license price can be (for 1, 2 or 3 years). If it were an acceptable amount of 10 or 15 euros, I think that if the program is as good as I seem to have understood then I would gladly spend them ... I had a look at the program it seems valid, intuitive and with a lot of potential ... Joe h in future I will ask you many questions about style magic ... 
I have to understand if I can extrapolate the intro from my hundreds of midi files and how reliable the program is in the final result (.... Xxxxxx.sty)
Pietro
PS:
do not think about paying for the upgrade but think about purchasing a license that includes the updates .. the concept is very different.

[Joe H]

... Joe h in future I will ask you many questions about style magic ... 

I doubt that I will be able to help you. In the beginning I developed a template on paper and followed a method of incremental steps and saving the file after each step. (so I could go back if I made a mistake or changed my mind about something or work on the style over the coarse of several days) I don't make styles from MIDI files anymore. Making styles with Style Creator Assembly on the keyboard is much better than making styles from Song files.  Song files do not have the right phrases and chords and often are not in CM7 scale. Even with Styleworks from EMC (which is far more money) you cannot get good results... just simple styles.  It's way too much work for the final results achieved.

I now use StyleMagic as a style and Multi Pad editor. We can do deep editing that is not possible on the keyboard.

As far as Intros go... I like intros that I can play my own chord progressions.  This allows me to use the style for different tunes/songs without the intro influencing the rest of the tune/song due to predetermined chord progressions in the intro.

I will qualify the above statements by adding that I don't play covers of commercial music and don't entertain.  I mostly play (improvise) my own original music for my personal enjoyment.

Joe H

[Aquilauno]

Thanks Joe for the clarification ...
Going back to Thomas and his decision I wanted to add that any decision he will make must consider who purchased the program, perhaps offering them a free license for the first one or two years. And then he decide if it is appropriate to lower the price of the program and focus on an annual license of 10/15 euros ... otherwise I am afraid that it will not have the desired result ... keep the price high and introducing a periodic payment is not a good idea ... it must broaden the base of potential customers and only two things can make it, a good price (that encourages the purchase)and  a valid and indispensable program for yamaha users.
Now, one of the shortcomings of the program is that, at present, given the limitations of the demo (saving the .sty file), you cannot verify the goodness of the program. Thomas must find a solution while maintaining protection from piracy ...
an example of what I mean:
I'm potentially interested but I don't know anything and I can't know the validity of the program for what it promises ... (conversion from midi to styles ... ) I managed to separate the various markers and the premise is good, but after? what comes out?  I can't know, for this I said I would ask you many questions
...  the current version of the program does not help me.
the result is that:
for the moment, although interested, I don't buy it until someone who uses stylemagic YA answers my questions ...    I don't say it for you but to try to help Thomas.
Pietro

[Joe H]

Pietro,

I respect your point of view.  You are coming from a place of someone considering to buy the program. What about those who already bought the program.  Why should Thomas lower the price, his competition is sellinig for 3 1/2 times the money and not as good. Most important he needs to find a better way to market his software to sell more copies.

1. License is currently good for Lifetime.

2. You can play your newly created style in StyleMagic without having to SAVE it.

3. I don't think Thomas is reading this thread so he won't know your thoughts.

4. Download the manual and you can learn a lot about the capabilities of StyleMagic

Joe H

[Aquilauno]

I don't want to have been misunderstood. If a program is valid, they are willing to pay it even 3 times more therefore thoughts are for the best for Thomas ... Thomas can make his choices.
Thomas is free to sell at the price he wants, but not take into consideration the comments made, which are the subject of this post, is not a good idea, it is my point of view that is worth as much as any other.
This means that I too can be wrong in my ideas. Also you too said that you do not share Thomas's choice ... I just thought it would be feasible with a lower price, it is true that the competition sells 3 times more but there are no subscriptions... Here because I explained why it should take into consideration a lowering of the price ... would make an annual subscription more acceptable (
and in my opinion whit higher cash return ...).
Thomas does not read this post but you represented to him this discussion about its program, I assume that there is a relationship of cordiality, I seem to have understood that thomas asked you for advice ...  not easy to make the right decisions but less easy is to  advise someone ...
I downloaded the manual and will give us a good read ... but if listening to the created style you mean on the PC is not the same as loading it on the keyboard ... but I probably miss something so I'm going to read the manual
...all the best for Thomas e for StyleMagic YA.

[beykock]

There is a difference between an update and an upgrade.
Maybe Thomas has the intention to launch an upgrade ...

Best wishes, Babette

[Pino]

I am a big fan of this software, have no problem to pay some additional payment for a real upgrade.

I have been able to make song styles from prepared midi intros from my PC, deleting the existing intros in a Yamaha style and importing my own intros

The "MultiEditor" has been so clunky in the past versions, I hope now, with the introduction of a pencil, that we may be able to write in some 'hi hats' or other drum parts and be able to edit and add new parts to our styles, we wait and see.

Pino

[valimaties]

The "MultiEditor" has been so clunky in the past versions, I hope now, with the introduction of a pencil, that we may be able to write in some 'hi hats' or other drum parts and be able to edit and add new parts to our styles, we wait and see.

Pino

Hi Pino.
This instrument does not work for notes, only for controls. I have tried and does not work in notes area. I have told Thomas about this and it answered me with a very simple and bothered answer: "My beta testers have told me that it works very good" . I told him, that in this case, his beta testers have not test it as it must to...

Here is a video which shows what I said:

MultiEditor's new tools are unfinished IMO ...

PS: Enable subtitles on youtube video...

[Joe H]

Vali,

I think the Pencil gives greater accuracy than the mouse pointer.  I can place both notes and controller messages much better with the Pencil.  But dragging the Pencil is a problem. It's not good for that kind of operation... too many MIDI events.  Maybe Thomas could lower the resolution for dragging the Pencil. Make a User defined resolution to suit our own personal needs.

Joe H

[Pino]

Disappointing, with a pencil to draw notes this program could have become a "must have" for editing YAMAHA style.

Without that there's nothing much new for me,

oh well,  - Now the excitement has gone, - 👹

[valimaties]

Vali,

I think the Pencil gives greater accuracy than the mouse pointer.  I can place both notes and controller messages much better with the Pencil.  But dragging the Pencil is a problem. It's not good for that kind of operation... too many MIDI events.  Maybe Thomas could lower the resolution for dragging the Pencil. Make a User defined resolution to suit our own personal needs.

Joe H

Hi Joe...

I also gave him the idea to let user click two points (holding CTRL) and program to be able to draw itself a line of events from the point A to point B. I don't think is such a huge math calc
Yes it is a better solution, but it also can be improved as most of DAWs action That is what I want him to understand.

There is also a missing of wheel event on that screen. It is very annoying that mouse wheel does not do anything in that screen and you have to use that up-down and right-left button switch ... Why? 

Regards,
Vali

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
I bought Style Magic a few months ago , when I bought my SX900.
To be quite honest, haven't used it yet. I will if I decide to do a lot more style editing than I currently am.
Prefer to use the onboard style assembly function.
For note editing, I use Jorgen's Split and Splice program in conjunction with XGWorks. So far so good.
Next test will be if I can actually replace an intro with a midi file intro using just xg works and split and splice.

For multi pads , I've just started using XG works on its own. Wanted to turn some of the style arpeggios into pads. Seems to have worked.

Don't really have a hassle with someone charging  for an upgrade, an update, though, if it's just to fix existing bugs, I would.

[Pino]

Hi,
I bought Style Magic a few months ago , when I bought my SX900.
To be quite honest, haven't used it yet. I will if I decide to do a lot more style editing than I currently am.
Prefer to use the onboard style assembly function.

Are you saying that you prefer to use the onboard 'style creator' to using 'style magic' but so far you haven't had time to try 'StyleMagic

That doesn't even make any sense.

Pino

[Joe H]

Using Style Creator Assembly to exchange style Parts is different than editing styles with StyleMagic.  The Voice Editor and Drum Editor very good.  And you can do LOTS of editing in the multieditor (piano roll) that you will never be able to do with Style Creator.

You should load a style into StyleMagic and check it out. I think you will find the StyleMagic is well worth the money.

Joe H

[rikkisbears]

Are you saying that you prefer to use the onboard 'style creator' to using 'style magic' but so far you haven't had time to try 'StyleMagic

That doesn't even make any sense.

Pino

Hi Pino,
basically I'm just altering the odd  style at the moment.
I want a few more with piano arpeggios for instance, I use orchestral type styles mainly.
So I went thru the psr styles that use piano arpeggios  turned arpeggios into pads. I now have a piano arpeggio style library which I can audition with any style.
If I find something that works I copy the style track ( that the pad was based on, ) into the style using style assembly.
If I actually have to do any editing to the style or pad , I just do it in XG Works. Split and splice to get my midi file,  I can then alter the style and save it. I can import a pad into the style also, provided I'm replacing a style section with a similar type of pad.

Far more convoluted way of doing things  than it was on my korgs, but I'm comfortable with xg works, I used it for nearly 15 years to convert psr styles across to Korg.

Now that I actually have a psr ,I don't need to do the same amount style creating/editing that I used to do, I actually have the styles I wanted. I can stop trying to turn a Pa4x into a Yamaha. Haha

I bought Style Magic more as a safety net, knowing that if I get back into my old addiction of style converting, I will have the means of doing it, and I won't regret having sold my Korgs. I'll be able to do it on my psr's.

[Joe H]

... I bought Style Magic more as a safety net, knowing that if I get back into my old addiction of style converting, I will have the means of doing it, and I won't regret having sold my Korgs. I'll be able to do it on my psr's.

You can't convert styles with StyleMagic.  Are you talking about StyleWorks from EMC?

Joe H

[rikkisbears]

Hi Joe,
no. I used to be able to convert the earlier psr styles to Korg  by just using xg works. Once guitar mode was introduced on psr's , it no longer worked. I then used my s950 to create the .mid file I needed.

Basically, change psr ext .sty  to .mid. Load into xg works.
Min Intro's/ endings are stacked on top of Maj  intro/ ending, so basically moved them to end of  mid file and also had to copy drum parts for those.

Then had to swap midi channel 9 and 11 around. Rest of the channels suited Korg.

Changed to markers from  Yamaha vers to Korg ( i1cv1, v1cv1 etc)

If there were any mega voice sounds, just delete the track they're normally on a  seperate track, nothing one can really do.

Then save song to midi file 0.

Import it into Korg style creator. Used to have to do settings in the style itself , volumes, change voices  ntt settings etc. the equivalent to Casm settings. The fine tuning was done in the korg itself.

Pa3x/PA4x had xg voices and drums. Pa800 didn't used to be a real chore converting xg drums to Korg.

As I mentioned once guitar mode  was introduced, I used to have to record the midifile I needed in a psr. Intro / End
Min / Maj, variations , fills , breaks , I use to be able to record just a cmaj7, or  I could do more variations if required.

I have EMC, had since the early 90's used to work ok, but sometimes for some styles the editing afterwards was more trouble than it was worth. Does some strange things at times.
For Ketron Sd1, it used to remove some controllers from beginning of bar, expression for one. Used to get loud jumps in volume. Editing was lousy on sd1, it didn't last long.

I never got into trying to convert midi songs into styles.  Maybe the odd intro /ending.
Haven't used it in years.

Also have Dan's V arranger for creating midifiles for converting to Korg. Gave me the option of doing Roland, Technics, Ketron , Korg and Yamaha.
Never really used it as the arranger it was designed to be.

As I mentioned , I was a style converting addict, never had the spare time to actually play.

Dumped all 3 korgs and my psrs950  , bought the sx900, and tried to steer clear of anything too much to do with styles.

Having style magic, makes me feel comfortable that, should I want to get back into converting, I can.

I should  be able to do on the Yamaha , what I used to do on the korgs. With some minor changes, 
I'll have to use VArranger to create the midi files of the styles.
I'm assuming I'd just have to do Maj/min  intro / ending , variations etc. maj7 chord.
Import them into style magic to create the psr style.

[dsvroland]

The new version for StyleMagic was released right now!

• We all have a subscription for a year (for free)
• Thomas did not comment the price!

[rikkisbears]

Thank you Dsvroland

[ckobu]

I just got a mail from Thomas. I think this is a completely fair and honest attitude towards the customer of his software.
I often use MixMaster> Go to> XGWorks or Cakewalk.
However, StyleMagic has great solutions, especially in the CASM area, and there is no alternative for that. Thanks Thomas for the great program.

###################
Hello

This is link to the new version StyleMagic YA:
----------
You must have the full version on the computer.
If you do not have the installation package for the full version of the program, please write to me.

modification:
        Multieditor - added new tools: eraser, pencil, selection,
        Multieditor - added grid lines in the Control Change field,
        Multieditor - added option of controllers selection has been extended for the Copy and Delete functions,
        Main window - added scp and fps file formats,
        Main window - added Slovak language,
        Voice selection - added voice selection prompter,

Please be informed that subsequent updates will be available free of charge only for a valid subscription.
The subscription will be valid for a one year from the purchase of the license, after which you can purchase subscriptions at any time,
e.g. when a new update is available.
Today I am giving you a start subscription valid for one year.

Regards
Thomas Szczepaniak
software author
#################

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
Sorry , bit confused, where do you actually get the update from. I did buy full version a few weeks ago.
Haven't gotten round to using it yet, and I don't want to do something stupid and corrupt my current version.

Thank you

[ckobu]

I received a notification and a download link in the mail. He'll probably get it too.
A little warning, turn off the antivirus program because Defender (win10) automatically deletes the downloaded file.