Updates for StyleMagic and MidiWorks are not longer for free.

[dsvroland]

Hi friends!

Does anyone have news about StyleMagic and MIDIWorks?

Now it looks like we'll only receive updates by subscription. I already sent an email to Tomaz, he sent one last update "for free". He still hasn't answered how much will it cost the subscription. I'm a little disappointed because when I made the purchase he said the updates would be free. I understand that he needs money to continue developing, but I believe that we should have a discount.

See the image on the website in English at the end "Free upgrade for holders of the full version as part of the annual subscription!"

[Joe H]

Thomas' English is not that good.  I've received many updates for free and have not received an email that I will need an annual subscription.  I know he is working on an update currently with new features.

Yes... that message is confusing.  We will just have to wait and see.

Joe H

[dsvroland]

I only received information about the subscription after sending him an email. For example, for the last MidiWorks update I did not receive it as usual (by e-mail without request), I only received the update because I requested it and he also confirmed that this would be the last update for free 

The last MidiWorks update is compatible with PSR-SX keyboards.

[Gunnar Jonny]

Quote from the first point at the FAQ site:

FAQ
What is the price of the software update?
Update software is free, for anyone who purchased a full version.

https://www.midisoft.pl/en/#strona-dn



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Pino]

Thomas should employ someone that is a good English speaker, translator, good at marketing and making video tutorials in English and a better English user manual. He has very good products and I'm sure he could sell 10 times more with a different approach.

I've recommended his software to many musicians and almost all have come back with a negative view mainly because of the language thing.

I use StyleMagic a lot, I have spend hours on it, learning mainly by trial and error, but it's the only real program available at the moment, updates by subscription would be a "no, no" for me.

Pino

[Joe H]

Pino,

I share your experience and point of view.  If we have to pay for upgrades in the future, Thomas is likely to experience people are NOT willing to pay.  I think he is making a big mistake to charge for updates because we bought the programs with the understanding that all future updates would be free.

I assume he is working on a suggestion I made to him for Exporting and Importing individual style Parts in Channels Manager (like we can now do with entire sections in Sections Manager). I used the Google Translator hoping it would be more understandable and make sense. He liked my idea but he said it would take a lot of work because it would require saving the alternate channels (ch 1-8) not just the standard channels 9-16.  Maybe he is working on more than one new feature and feels that he needs to get paid for his work.  I agree with you that he needs help marketing his software.  I know he has a lot of users, but could sell a lot more with some professional help.

BTW... he asked me in the past to edit those English Captions for his videos.  At the time I didn't have a lot of experience with StyleMagic and didn't want to change the meaning of his words, so I did the best I could... but I thought it could be better.  I also edited his document for my own personal use, but I agree he needs someone who knows both Polish and English very well who uses his software and who could ask him questions and do a good job of explaining things.

Joe H

[dsvroland]

Pino,

I share your experience and point of view.  If we have to pay for upgrades in the future, Thomas is likely to experience people are NOT willing to pay.  I think he is making a big mistake to charge for updates because we bought the programs with the understanding that all future updates would be free.

I assume he is working on a suggestion I made to him for Exporting and Importing individual style Parts in Channels Manager (like we can now do with entire sections in Sections Manager). I used the Google Translator hoping it would be more understandable and make sense. He liked my idea but he said it would take a lot of work because it would require saving the alternate channels (ch 1-8) not just the standard channels 9-16.  Maybe he is working on more than one new feature and feels that he needs to get paid for his work.  I agree with you that he needs help marketing his software.  I know he has a lot of users, but could sell a lot more with some professional help.

BTW... he asked me in the past to edit those English Captions for his videos.  At the time I didn't have a lot of experience with StyleMagic and didn't want to change the meaning of his words, so I did the best I could... but I thought it could be better.  I also edited his document for my own personal use, but I agree he needs someone who knows both Polish and English very well who uses his software and who could ask him questions and do a good job of explaining things.

Joe H

I indicated two suggestions to him, he liked it, however, he never did anything. 1. Do the multilingual interface (I said I could help). 2. Advertise and Facebook groups.

I also understand that he does not ask for much help, it is possible that he does not want to feel that he owes a favor.

Also the security part of the software I think is very good, there is no pirated version and I feel that what I paid was worth it. But reinforcing security also made it impossible to run his programs on any computer with Hyper-V enabled. I mean Hyper-V as a Windows Feature.

[Pino]

I am happy with the USB security
If it was 'cracked' then there would be many free downloads on the internet and that would be the end of further "updates."
I travel a lot and always carry all my USB sticks with me,
You can buy second USB pass, it's not expensive,

Pino

[Joe H]

I sent Thomas an email asking him for clarification on the updates issue. The way I read that statement is that those who bought full licensed versions of the StyleMagic and Midiworks will continue to receive free updates.

Hopefully this will continue... let's wait and see!

Joe H

[Joe H]

FYI... I just downloaded the StyleMagic v3 User Manual.  It looks like there is some improvement.  I think it would be nice if we could combine all the different parts of the manual into a single document.

Joe H

[dsvroland]

I sent Thomas an email asking him for clarification on the updates issue. The way I read that statement is that those who bought full licensed versions of the StyleMagic and Midiworks will continue to receive free updates.

Hopefully this will continue... let's wait and see!

Joe H

I also hope that updates will continue to be free

[eallan]

Joe ,
The PDFs of the Manual that I have are from this download
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/hu/zasoby/stylemagic-manual.zip
The PDF files are all dated 10-03-2018.
Are the PDFs you have newer than that?
If they are , could you point me to where you downloaded them.
Thanks.

[Joe H]

FYI...

I have been communicating with Thomas.  Below are the email communications between me and Thomas.

============================================================================

Hi Thomas,

There is some concern on the Yamaha PSR Tutorial Forum that we will have to pay for future updates on your software. 
Is this true or will we continue to receive FREE updates if we have already purchased a full program licensed version?

Regards,
Joe  Hlifka

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Joe

Updates will be available free of charge as part of your subscription.

The subscription is valid for one year from the date of purchase of the license.

The subscription can also be purchased separately - I am in the process of calculating the price.
Maybe you can help me suggest something?

Regards
Thomas Szczepaniak


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas,

I am confused by the annual subscription.  What if we purchased software several years ago?  Are you saying I will need to buy a subscription once a year to get the next update? What if there are no new updates in a year?

This is what people are concerned about.  When we bought StyleMagic and Midiworks we understood all future updates would be FREE.  Now we will have to pay more money for updates.  I think this change will upset many people who have bought your software already and they will NOT be willing to buy a yearly subscription for future updates. That means we would keep paying over and over again.

There must be another way of doing business. I would not pay for an update unless it is for a very small amount of money and I would want to try it out before buying it. I really like your software, but this change is not to my liking.  I think many other users will feel the same. I might buy a subscription one time only and never buy it again... ever!

How about charging for updates without buying a subscription?  In other words If users want the update they would have to buy the update. (latest version)  But if they are not interested in the update they would not receive it.

I will not make a suggestion on how much you should charge.  To be honest, I don't really like the idea of buying a subscription, but I might be willing to pay for a MAJOR update for a small amount of money... just one time only.  I just don't know... I will have to think about it.

Joe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you are confusing the license with the subscription.

The license is for life, and no one will collect it even in 100 years.

The subscription will include updates, maintenance of the full version on my server, help.

Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations.

Understand?

Regards
Thomas

[Joe H]

Joe ,
The PDFs of the Manual that I have are from this download
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/hu/zasoby/stylemagic-manual.zip
The PDF files are all dated 10-03-2018.
Are the PDFs you have newer than that?
If they are , could you point me to where you downloaded them.
Thanks.

That's the latest... it's an update for version 3

Joe H

[Joe H]

Based on the email response from Thomas, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of StyleMagic and Midiworks development.



Joe H

[WolfBack]

I'm shocked now!
Thomas has decided to follow a wrong and dangerous path.
The same path that follows some programmers and developers (like the Collectorz.com over the last 4-5 years.).
You have to pay for a software that works forever... but you have to pay a fee every year for the upcoming updates and support.
That's ridiculous! I was pay 52€ for StyleMagicYA 3 years ago, I did receive the update to version 3 (Genos compatible) and if I choose to buy a SX700 / SX900 (or any of the upcoming SX7xx / S9xx) I will to pay more for the same program? I don't get it!!!!!
The StyleMagic is a wonderful piece of software, but Thomas make a update every now and a couple of years. That's how he's confused about the calculation of the One Year Subscription.
Let's be straight: This program is not for all kind of people. The target group is very low to sell his software... and unfortunately... the end of StyleMagic is near...
Sad....

[Bachus]

I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

[Joe H]

I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

I think Thomas does some other kind of work for a living.  Software is not his regular income.  But it sounds like with the newer keyboards and update suggestions from users, he is feeling a lot of pressure to keep up with things.

Joe H

[Joe H]

...  if I choose to buy a SX700 / SX900 (or any of the upcoming SX7xx / S9xx) I will to pay more for the same program?...

Right now if you download the StyleMagic v3.0.2 Demo, you can get the Voice definition files for all the latest keyboards including the SX700/SX900.  The thing that will be missing is being able to assign Insert DSPs for each style channel.

Just remember that StyleMagic has a great Voice Editor, Drum Editor and CASM Editor, so it's usefulness will not diminish.

PS: Several years ago I bought a backup license using a second USB drive just in case my regular USB drive fails eventually. Both StyleMagic and Midiworks will run on a single dongle.  This is true for both dongles.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Most programs like steinberg or whatever have a fee for major upgrade which i do not mind paying as we all have to follow the technology or become a ludite using a Pentium 4 or a ZX Spectrum. .

For Thomas programs a small fee would be acceptable as a lot of work go into these programs.

I would like some clarification on what the updates are though

All the Best
john

[Joe H]

John,

Yes, this in effect is what I stated (above) to Thomas (trying not to be rude).  This idea applies to Yamaha arrangers as well.  If Yamaha would honor the many requests for specific updates to the OS (in the form of patches) then we could each get individual special features for our own needs by buying specific patches to add features. The thing is... does the Genos and PSR sx... OS allow such patches to be written/added?

Joe H

[Fred Smith]

I guess the man needs to make money to live
And he just follows the rest of the greedy software market..

Want it or not, subscriptions are the new deal..

In fact, subscriptions are the new deal, not because developers are "greedy", but because they want to stay in business.

If you think their product is overpriced, then you should enter the market and compete. Think of all the money you'll make (assuming you're right, of course).

Cheers,
Fred

[Wim]

Quote: Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations. EndQuote.

If Microsoft does this with their Windows programs? I understand you are a one person business. I also know some small software companies. You get your updates and say a six months helpdesk. But if you want an extension for that you can buy an extra subscription for the helpdesk facilaties.

rgds Wim

[Jørgen]

Hey.
This whole discussion is basically about whether software development is your livelihood or your hobby.
I started developing software approx. 20 years ago as a hobby - an intellectual challenge. In 2005, I tested the possibilities of making one of my programs commercial. It did not succeed! The market is simply too small!
Instead, I have chosen to bring a smaller number of advertisements to my website and to receive donations. These two things do NOT bring in anything similar to salary for the hours I spend on software development. They bring in something similar to half a month's salary PER YEAR!
But this has paid for a new keyboard - right now a 6 year old PSR S750 - and a new computer more times.
I have no intention of changing that my 44 software programs are free to download and use. Software development is and will be a hobby for me!
I hope Thomas finds a model so he can continue out of the track he has chosen. But it sure will not be easy, if he will make software development to Yamaha keyboards his livelihood. Anyway, good luck Thomas.

Jørgen

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Joe
Does anyone know what is in the latest updates for Stylemagic and Midiworks.

All the best
John

[BenoitM]

Quote: Now I have a whole bunch of phones from people who bought the program 8 years ago and I do not have time to develop the program, I feel like a slave who was paid 50 euros 8 years ago and I have to meet expectations.

The 'Pay once, free updates forever' model simply don't work. It can't, on the long term, for this kind of software in this 'niche' market. At first, it can attract some people, and create a good user-base, but in the long term the user-base tend to stagnates and the incomes are lowering year after year. New users (paying customers) are not enough to generate suffisent income for the developer to live (yes, surprisingly, everyone has to pay bills, even developers...  ) ... That's why he had to change the licensing model.  Existing customers saying that the developer is 'greedy' are even greedier by not understanding this, and expecting new features for free forever...

But I agree that, perhaps, the author should have clarified things from the beginning:
- 'Update' should be always free, but it contains only bug fixes or minor enhancements. (in software versioning : from v1.0 to v1.1 , or v1.2 , and so on ..)
- 'Upgrade' should be paid, as it often correspond to significant changes in the soft : new big features, complete redesign, etc... (in soft versioning : from v1.0 to v2.0, or from v2.5 to v3.0 , and so on ...)

If Microsoft does this with their Windows programs? I understand you are a one person business. I also know some small software companies. You get your updates and say a six months helpdesk. But if you want an extension for that you can buy an extra subscription for the helpdesk facilaties.

rgds Wim

As you said, there's no point comparing Windows and StyleMagic/MidiWorks (SM/MW).

Windows is a Platform, SM/MW is a software.
A platforms give the developer the tools needed to create software, it is an ecosystem.
A software brings functionalities to solve specific problems for users of an ecosystem.

Microsoft is the first winner when they announced that, starting from Windows 10, they would give upgrades for free forever, because maintaining old versions of Windows is a nightmare and cost a lot of $$$ (An O.S. in itself only gives basic functionalities to users, but it is a very complicated piece of software: thousand of engineers, hundreds of millions of lines of code, and so on...). If everyone in the world had the same Windows version, it would cost far less for Microsoft to create patches to correct bugs and security holes... Even today, Windows 7/8.x users can upgrade for free to Windows 10, if their hardware permits so ...

In fact, Google did it from day 1 with Android: they open-sourced a big part of the O.S. to allow third-party to create an Android-compatible customized OS. and they gave the O.S. - not really for free, but at a ridiculous cost compared to the building cost - to Smartphone manufacturers.
For google, creating and maintaining Android cost a lot of $$$ , they loose money on this, but they earn much more money by getting a fee on each sold app on they app store ! When you control the Platform, you are the master of the game. Giving the platform for free is a way to alienate the developers and customers (there's no such thing as a free lunch, remember ?)

For a professional single-person developer shop, it simply isn't possible to upgrade a soft for free forever. Because the costs of development are increasing with each version (because when you add a new feature you have to be very careful not to break existing features) whereas income are at best stagnating or at worst declining ...

Of course, some software are really 'free' to use and are regularly updated/upgraded by their creators, but those developers needs to find alternative solutions to have income (remember: developer, too, have to pay their bills !) such as consulting, or 'premium' paid versions...
And sometimes, very good free software are created by hobbyist developers, just for fun    Most of the time, when its a hobby, you don't count your time, so you don't expect to be paid for what you've done...
But even for that kind of software, there are numerous examples of free software that became paying software at a certain time, either because to developer sold its product to a commercial company, or because the developer wanted to be full-time committed to its software... Sounds very sensible to me !

Beside this, a lot of people tend to misunderstand Software Development. They are willing to pay good money for 'real things' (ie: new keyboard, new car, smartphone and so on...) because they can touch them, but with software - since it is not tangible - they tend to believe it should be cheap or free forever... as if is created from thin air at no cost...

Creating software is *hard* and it cost - at least a lot of time - , and getting the knowledge on how to create (good) software takes time. (time=money, you get the thing ?  )
What we take for granted is often not so easy to (re)create from scratch by a single developer. And because a feature exists in a software for a long time doesn't mean it is easy to do or replicate in another soft...

I can't count the number of customers that asks me to create software that can 'read the users mind'... Often they give me the same example: Google search can 'predict' (autocomplete and autocorrect) the searched topic -and for free - ! And they tell me that, because Google offers this kind of feature for free it should be pretty basic and cheap to recreate... My answer is always the same: "Easy to use - and as basic as it seems - doesn't means 'easy to create'. Google is a multi billions-dollar company, they have hundreds of thousands powerful servers around the world, and thousands of very qualified engineers to build the software that makes all the 'magic' happens. You don't expect your local Garage owner to be able to build a Space Shuttle from scratch just because SpaceX did it ".

So, yes, everything has a cost, and developers are not different than you, they need money to live and grow their product.

"If a product is free, you are the product"   

Benoit

[BenoitM]

Ho, and sorry for the long post ! 

Benoit

[Gunnar Jonny]

It is big differences between updates and upgrades.
If pay 'full price' for a software, then bugfixes and promissed changes for the version when deal done should be downloadable or delivered free of charge regardless of time.
To charge more money should not be any issue at least until next major upgrade of the program. Then customers can choose if they want to upgrade or not.
When use subscriptions, the software should start at a lower price, and if subscription payment stop, the customer get no further updates.
It's fairly simple, but the major softwareupgrades need to be protected, i.e. by use of new serial, password, USB key or whatever method used to protect piracy.

[Joe H]

FYI... Update on communications with Thomas Szczepaniak

After reviewing comments here and thinking about it, I sent Thomas another email.  I emphasized it is just MY suggestions and he should solicit suggestion from other users. I was speaking only for myself.

1. If he charged a subscription; and he could not lease a new update each year, I thought people would NOT buy another subscription.

2. As an alternative, I suggested that he raise his prices on his software and charge a small fee for updates. We can review the updates in the demo version. 

3. I said he should get suggestions from other users as well before making a final decision.

I also told him that I personally thought StyleMagic is better software than EMC StyleWorks for Yamaha which sells for 199 Euro.

Regards,
Joe H

[Joe H]

Clarification on updates vs. upgrades. 

All of Thomas' updates ARE upgrades with new features.  There are always improvements and I have never received a version of his software with bugs in it.

One of the best things about StyleMagic and MidiWorks besides all the great editors in these programs is his IDL Editor which allows us to add Voice Definition files for our expansion packs. And I thank Vali Maties for that; who has given us YEM Content Explorer which will generate Voice files for all of our packs that are compatible with Thomas IDL v2 Editor as well as MixMaster, PadMaker, and PadMaker-Midi programs.

Joe H