Naming duplicate songs

sugarplumsss · February 15, 2020, 08:19:24 PM

Forgive me, aging and my lack of acumen for computers

Ok I may have asked before.
eg "Save The Last Dance for me"

Let's say I have this song, duplicated, triplicated in various sets. I work with different people ... and the same song is sometimes in different folders.

SHOULD I ( to be safe ) make little variations in how I spell, label the song?

Eg "SAVE the last dance for me" versus "Save The Last Dance For Me" do characters like this protect me from confusing the computer in T4?

My guess is numerals will protect me Save The Last Dance for me 1 Save The Last Dance for me 2.//// But what about capitals versus regular letters.

Maybe this question is needless, because T4 has no problem reading the "same file" in different folders!?
But each version is liable to have slight variations... I thought this might cause "confusion" ( my word, not T4 terminology !) in the T4
So if eg a volume or a voice or an eq in a voice is different , maybe these variations do NOT constitute duplicates?
If they ARE literally duplicates , the question still needs clarification.

To sum up... exact duplicates in different folders?
Almost exact duplicates in different folders ?

Graham UK · February 16, 2020, 03:59:03 AM

Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be !!!
Save The Last Dance for me 1 then 2 then 3 is fine all you need to do.
If you want to make a folder do so putting all 3 into it for quick selecting.

panos · February 16, 2020, 04:26:36 AM

Hi sugar,
If there are two or more files (they could be styles or midi songs or voices or anything else)
in different folders,
they can have the same name(nor the keyboard or a computer have a problem with it) but that doesn't mean that they are always the same files only because they have the same name.

Let's say I have the midi song "Save the last dance for me" in the folder A.
I can make an exact copy of it and save it on the folder B without changing it's name.
Then I am changing a couple of voices in it and save it to the folder C without changing it's name.

Now I have 3 copies of the "Save the last dance for me".

In folders A and B it is the exact same copy but in folder C it is on the exact copy.

Neither the computer nor the keyboard can have a file(e.g midi song) in the same folder with the exact same name(exact same characters).
They will never let's you save a copy with the same name in the same folder no matter how hard you try.
But in different folders there is not a problem.

If you have copies of the same midi song,you have to watch and listen to them to see if there is any difference between them.
Then you can delete the one that is the same and you don't want it to be in many folders with no reason.

sugarplumsss · February 16, 2020, 10:06:17 AM

To all responders thank you
As i wrote the question, felt I was making it complicated ... but because the confusion resides in my mind... I had no way to ask a better set of questions.

I will ask one question per reply.. to untangle the Gordian knot in my head!!

If I understood panos correctly : I cannot have eg "Save the last" in the SAME folder with the same name.....
But I CAN have "Save the last" in two or three or four folders.. with the exact same name?

Fred Smith · February 16, 2020, 10:09:58 AM

Quote from: sugarplumsss on February 16, 2020, 10:06:17 AM
But I CAN have "Save the last" in two or three or four folders.. with the exact same name?

That's correct. Yes, you can.

Cheers,
Fred

sugarplumsss · February 16, 2020, 10:37:10 AM

"I CAN have "Save the last" in two or three or four folders.. with the exact same name?"
Answer is yes

If among those "Save the last" files, I happen to make a change ... THEN does the name need to be altered?

Toril S · February 16, 2020, 12:09:14 PM

No! Not unless you want the title to be more specific, to show that this is another variation of the file.

panos · February 16, 2020, 12:22:51 PM

No you don't have to change the name if you don't want to.
The computer or the keyboard don't care about names if they don't find a file with the same name in the same folder.

If you want to call now your new King Henrietta instead of Henry, they really don't mind.
They only ask you to give a name to a file that you copied to a new folder or if it at the same folder either they will replace it with the new one,or you have to rename it to keep both.

But in the case you have a copy to a new folder with the exact same name you don't know if this copy is "altered" or not.

That's why if I change a style (in your case a midi song) I slightly change it's name so I know that this is a different version and not the original no matter if I save it to the same or different folders or forgot where I saved it and what I have altered.

That way I can have:
"Save the last dance" (which I know it is the original)
"Save the last dance 2" (which I suppose I have made some changes on it)
"Save the last dance no piano" (I know what changes I have made

)
"Save the last dance key of Gm"
"Save the last dance just drums"
etc

So when I see "Save the last dance" on my computer's or my keyboard's search,
I know which one is always the original, no matter in what folder I will find it.

On keyboard's and on computer's search the capitals or not capitals have no point.
They can see characters
"A" and "a" it is the same character for them.

sugarplumsss · February 16, 2020, 03:19:40 PM

Maybe I can ask the question from another point

I am coming from ignorance and fear, a well known duo!!

When do I absolutely have to alter the name/// I am not talking about me, the user, being confused about changes I made on a few variations, no no, I mean "the possibility of in a sense "confusing the keyboard/ computer in the keyboard"

All this thread is based on, is my fear I am going to cause some kind of problem with poor labeling.

Toril S · February 16, 2020, 05:15:22 PM

You will not. It is the same on the keyboard as on the computer. If you try to enter a file name in a folder that you have already there, the computer and the keyboard will say that there already is a file with this name, do you want to overwrite? If you say yes, the new file you have will place itself where the old one was, so if the new file has new content, you must give it another name.

panos · February 16, 2020, 05:55:19 PM

You MUST change the name ONLY when you want the "altered song" and the original song to be both in the same folder.
In that case if you don't give a new name to the song,the altered one will replace the original.
The original now is gone.
That is not good if you make a mistake and delete let's say a track of the midi file by mistake(e.g. the bass)
That's why the keyboard or the computer will always ask you before replacing a midi after you save it in the same folder, as Toril said.

So keep all your original purchased midis on a folder and whatever is in that folder don't make any changes to them.
Lets call that folder A.
The same midi's you can copy and save them to a different folder by keeping the midi's name exactly the same.
Let's call that folder B.
Those which are on the folder B you can make changes to them and save them again in the same folder B with the same name
(so they will be replaced ONLY in the folder B)
or not
(by giving them a new name you will have both the original and the altered one in the folder B).

Those midis which are in the folder A will still sound as you have bought them from Yamaha musicsoft.
Neither the keyboard or the computer will be confused about which one is which.

For them, the midis real full names that they understand but they don't always tell you are:
F/A/Save the last dance.mid
F/B/Save the last dance.mid
F/B/Save the last dance new.mid

The "F" let's say it could be the USB stick or the internal keyboard's memory.

Better to ask than make a mistake.So don't mind about asking.

sugarplumsss · February 17, 2020, 06:44:51 AM

I brought this up a year two ago... but will bring up again. I work with registrations that control the Song Mode aka the MIDI songs.
So, eg "Save the Last Dance", is saved as a Registration.

And I also use Registrations without the MIDI song files.

Adding to that, the different folders, and the locations to save to.. HD, USB User
, perhaps you can understand why I find t4 almost overwhelming. But never performing as a musician, just all of these options, with saving, and labeling!

EileenL · February 17, 2020, 08:00:13 AM

If I were you I would save all the Midi Songs I am going to link to registrations in one folder on the hard drive. You could name it something like songs to Reg. This way if one becomes unlinked you know where to go to find it again.

Fred Smith · February 17, 2020, 09:53:48 AM

Quote from: sugarplumsss on February 17, 2020, 06:44:51 AM
I brought this up a year two ago... but will bring up again. I work with registrations that control the Song Mode aka the MIDI songs.
So, eg "Save the Last Dance", is saved as a Registration.

And I also use Registrations without the MIDI song files.

Adding to that, the different folders, and the locations to save to.. HD, USB User
, perhaps you can understand why I find t4 almost overwhelming. But never performing as a musician, just all of these options, with saving, and labeling!

To some extent you bring these problems on yourself. If your goal is to be less overwhelmed, you should be looking at simplifying your setup, rather than looking for answers on how to complicate it.

Use only the hard drive. Have only one registration file for each song. Get rid of stuff you don't use.

The simpler you have your setup, the less overwhelmed you'll be.

Cheers,
Fred

sugarplumsss · February 17, 2020, 11:40:01 AM

Re: "Use only the HD" How do I found how much room is available on each of the drives?

Re "Have only one registration file for each song"

But HOW? I play with multiple bands, with DIFFERENT set lists!

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Getting personal here for a second.
I started as a professional ( no other job, I tried teaching but it never worked ) in the sixties. I have become an increasingly versatile musician on more than one family of instruments.
But if you had told me back in my heyday that "Sugar, when you are much older, 100% of your attention will be on this... ( not technique, or musical ideals, or whatever) Creating endless set lists on a weekly basis. Even 10 years ago, I was still not at the point my career has taken me... weekly creating setlists. which means learning, or relearning or finding songs each week, for a half dozen or so bands.
About 5 years ago I started to transform into a one man band mode, but with other players. Not every gig, but some of these gigs, I am playing left hand bass, and using the drum styles. It was difficult at first, but I am getting better at it. Not only setting up the t4, but sometimes creating setlist in iRealPro which has chords only.

One other thing that is evolving for Sugar, is literally one man band ( something I truly want to do ) but without SINGING!! This is where two things are happening at the same time ... I am playing more "modern music from 70's to 2000's and I am using the MIDI files as I play along with them, "on the fly" . Meaning, I do not rehearse ( grown lazy, need to stop this laziness trend ) , I just press play, and move to the mixer and adjust MIDI parts that are too loud, all on the fly. It is a wild ride... but I am getting good feedback.. and though I think I "should" sing, I am finding I can get away without singing!

sugarplumsss · February 17, 2020, 12:08:03 PM

Quote from: EileenL on February 17, 2020, 08:00:13 AM
If I were you I would save all the Midi Songs I am going to link to registrations in one folder on the hard drive. You could name it something like songs to Reg. This way if one becomes unlinked you know where to go to find it again.

Just for my foggy brain... you mean save the Registrations of the Midi songs in one folder. Even typing this , is strange to my mind.

I think I have done what you suggest but in this way
I have various artists/ bandleaders , each in their own separate folder... the songs I do with them are all in their respective folders. This means a mixture of normal registrations and registrations linked to songs.