What workflow do you follow when using Genos with Cubase?

[melokeyz]

Dears,

Since I bought Genos, I kept myself away from Cubase for a whole year exploring all the capabilities that this arranger offers for a complete music production project. Even though I can produce an entire MIDI song in Genos only, I still need Cubase to highly edit the machinery nature of arrangers such as those repetitive drum breaks in its variations as well as adding additional instruments due to its channels limitation. It's my first time to use an arranger with a DAW in order to get the most out of my music projects.

Therefore,  I am highly in need for your insights and advise about the best workflow possible to use. Below are some questions to ask in order to get the most comfortable workflow. Please consider the asterisk in some questions for further information.

1) Do you record your entire MIDI song in Genos first then import it in Cubase for editing?
2) If so, is it a Quick or Multi track recording?
3) How do you deal with the channels limitation (1-4) for voice parts in multi track recording?
4) How does Cubase interprets layered voices (all parts are turned on)? Are they assigned to a single MIDI track or to a separate track for each voice?
5) Can you use Genos voices inside Cubase for adding more instrument tracks?
6) Do you record the style accompaniment first, add panning, mix, convert it to audio then recording the right melody later?*
7) How do you break the robotic nature of the song in Cubase?
What are the benefits of Genos live real time recording in Cubase? And what its problems?

* I was told and also read the same information online that recording both the left style accompaniment and right melody may sound messy after importing but I still don't know the reason behind this. Instead, style tracks should be converted to audio (after of course adding your panning and mixing) then add the right hand performance on top of it. Is this correct?

Sorry for the long post
Wish you all merry christmas.

[jugge]

Hi Melokeyz,

I have experiment with recording the style using both Genos multi track recording and
directly to Cubase. While recording to Cubase directly is faster, I still think recording in Genos
and than export to Cubase gives a better end result. However, I normaly dont record the whole song in
Genos, just the different variations I want to use and then I can do the rest of the editing in Cubase.

There is a Genos Instrument template available in Cubase (at least in version 10) and you can use it to select the instrument directly in Cubase.

Personally I don't think any of the methods is perfect, but if you try to set up all the voices that you want to use in Genos before exporting and importing to Cubase, you will get a better result.

I really hope that Yamaha will implement a better integration with Cubase because overall I am very happy with the Genos. I believe the Montage will have a much better integration with Cubase, but I don'tt thing I will enjoy playing it as much as the Genos.

Merry christmas

/Jugge

[melokeyz]

Sorry for the hugely delayed reply and thank you.

My goal from all these questions is to reach the highest level of usability of Genos in the studio. I hate to under utilise such an incredible machine. I am just finding ways and techniques to get the most out of it alongside my sample libraries and VSTs. I invested in music tools until now around 9k (included the Genos). So, I am figuring out a decent workflow to get the most out of all these tools.

I would be glad if I can grasp more details.

Cheers
Happy new year

[robinez]

There are many ways to achieve this. I''ve showed a couple of demos with multiple synths in the past what you can do with it. But to be honest, it seems that you invested a lot in the gear and now that you have all those great tools you need to learn how to use it. That comes over time.


My best advice would be to get a year pass on Groove3.com (i have that too), there is a huge amount of video tutorials over there that will learn you all the steps for creating music, ranging from production, technical things, how to use cubase, whay you can do with midi, mixing, mastering and indepth videos of most of the VST plugins.


To answer a couple of your questions (keep in mind that there are multiple methods to do this):

1) Do you record your entire MIDI song in Genos first then import it in Cubase for editing?

If i use the Genos then most of the time i record the performance directly on the Genos in audio recording, then i copy that wav file to Cubase and add the extra sounds and elements to it.
Also i sometimes create the full midi in Cubase (or Ableton live) and route that to the Genos in song mode, so that i can combine VST's and Sounds from the Genos and make the most use of my own played midi patterns

Here's a demo where i do that in ableton live and a korg pa4x (which is the same procedure as on the Genos):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syT8T3APdPg

2) If so, is it a Quick or Multi track recording?
In my case i never use the genos midi, i have cubase and ableton, so no need to use the genos midi for that


3) How do you deal with the channels limitation (1-4) for voice parts in multi track recording?
i always route those through cubase, so there is no limitation

4) How does Cubase interprets layered voices (all parts are turned on)? Are they assigned to a single MIDI track or to a separate track for each voice?
separate tracks based on your routing settings in cubase itself

5) Can you use Genos voices inside Cubase for adding more instrument tracks?
of course

6) Do you record the style accompaniment first, add panning, mix, convert it to audio then recording the right melody later?*
yes

7) How do you break the robotic nature of the song in Cubase?
I add drums in cubase and then it's simple, you have randomize functions and groove templates in cubase, so possibilities enough

8 ) What are the benefits of Genos live real time recording in Cubase? And what its problems?
One of the methods you can use is to record each element of a variation on a separate track in cubase, then you can modify what ever you want. If you want to record a performance from your genos  i would suggest to use the quick audio record of the genos and copy that audio file to cubase and then add all the extra sounds to it over there.


When you are using cubase, it shouldn't be the goal to always use the Genos sounds. There are better solutions available (which you probably have if you look at the amount of investment), so in that case use the genos as the keyboard where you record your ideas and use it primarely as a sound generator in cubase (like any other synth). It makes no sense to try to create midi files on the Genos (it's way to limited compared to cubase), learn to program it in cubase, or record the style output by importing a quick midi multi recording of it where you only play the style and no right upper sounds). Then program the 16 channels in your song area to the same sounds as in the style, but my personal opinion is that you are better off doing everything in cubase itself.

And i highly recommend that you check that groove3 site, im sure that you won't regret it and you will learn how to use all those things you have bought.

[melokeyz]

Robinez, you said it all in one shot, thank you so so so much. That's exactly the answers I am looking for.

Beleive it or not !!!!!

I purchased a yearly subscription in Groove3 in the first day of 2020 )
I actually spent two weeks researching the best all in one portal for tutorials and books. YouTube is definitely not enough, given the nature of its randomness. It's only great if you want to learn specific topics but not a "from scratch" tutorials.

OMG !!! Groove3 has it all. Tutorials for Daws, plugins, theory, film scoring, jazz, blues, you name it. And books too, what? lol. I will never regret it.

I am going to re-read your answers couple more times actually and take a screenshot of it.

It's really a heck of a one huge learning curve.

Lots of work to do sign me in.

Thx man

[melokeyz]

Oh BTW, you've made Hans Zimmer's Time to sound like a complete chill out song. Great job.

Did you program the style or is it a factory preset?

[robinez]

Oh BTW, you've made Hans Zimmer's Time to sound like a complete chill out song. Great job.

Did you program the style or is it a factory preset?

I've programmed it entirely in Ableton Live (same can be done in cubase), then i saved it as a midi file and transfered it to the Pa4x (or genos if you like, same method)

Then by connecting the usb of the Korg Pa4x to your computer you can use the midi functionality of the Korg Pa4x. Then what you do is start Ableton Live, add 16 midi tracks over there and route them to the Korg Pa4x for each midi channel by selecting Pa4x 1 Keyboard and the corresponding midi channel below it and set the monitoring for each channel to In. The next step is to set on global mode - midi out on the pa4x that you route every channel (16 are there) to the corresponding channel and set global Local midi control to off on the pa4x, because you do the routing now through Ableton Live.

Then load themidi file in the korg pa4x and press play on the korg pa4x. The routing above ensures that you hear all the sounds the same way is normally on your pa4x because the routing is done in ableton now to the pa4x. But if you want for instance change the strings in the midi file to Omnisphere VST instrument, then the only thing you have to do is to load the omnisphere synth for that specific channel and select a string sound in omnispere. Now the string midi information is still set from your pa4x to the daw but you routed that specific midi channel to omnisphere instead of the pa4x. This is what i do in this video for the strings and choir sounds. It sounds more complicated then it actually is. Once you understand the midi routing then it's really easy to do on your computer.

In my studio it doesn't matter which synth/ keyboard i use this way, i can route any synth or keyboard to whatever channel i want as long as i use cubase or ableton as the routing system. It's one of the first things you should learn in the cubase tutorials in my opinion, it gives you complete freedom in your production process.

[jugge]

If you are using Cubase and wants to get the most of it, I can higly recomend this site for Cubase tutorials (The have tutorials for other DAWs as well)
https://www.musictech.net/category/tutorials/cubase/
I was playing around with their tutorials for the the chord track and the chord pads yesterday and was quite amazed on what you can archive with those.
A very nice tool for creating chords and testing out new ideas.

The thing I need to learn more, is to fully understand Genos Sy*** (System Exclusive) messages. You can control most of the Genos parameters with those.
If you are using the midi recorder in Genos and then import the midi file into Cubase, you will see an additional track for the Sy*** data which contain tons of data that will instruct Genos to set DSPs, etc.

Best regards
/Jugge

[melokeyz]

Thanks to all friends, I greatly appreciate your responses.

One last question though  ...

Can Cubase read the inputs of Genos pitch bend/mod stick?
In other words, can I completely rely on Genos as a midi controller instead of buying Komplete Kontrol keyboard?

I received my Cubase 10 pro copy today and waiting for my newly purchased HP Omen laptop. Can't wait to try out all possibilities.