Controlling external keyboard from the Genos

[latingate]

How can I change the sound of an external keyboard (i.e. motif) connected to the Genos using midi? I want to "save" this sound change with the registration, so every time I press that registration - the sound of the external keyboard will be changed accordingly.
Also, is it possible to change a sound of an external keyboard in real time by pressing a button on the Genos?

[soryt]

it is possible , but a hell of a job to get (program) the right sounds on the wanted button .

S,

[Pino]

Not a big deal
Do you want 'programme change' only or play the external keyboard from the Genos.
Pino

[latingate]

Not a big deal
Do you want 'programme change' only or play the external keyboard from the Genos.
Pino

Program change only

[Joe H]

How can I change the sound of an external keyboard (i.e. motif) connected to the Genos using midi? I want to "save" this sound change with the registration, so every time I press that registration - the sound of the external keyboard will be changed accordingly.
Also, is it possible to change a sound of an external keyboard in real time by pressing a button on the Genos?

With a Motif it is so easy.  See attachment.  I created the 3 User Voice Banks for my Motif Rack XS in YEM and installed them as "dummy packs". I also did this for the MRXS Multis (Performances).  You just have to name the Voices for the banks you wish to access, AND set the correct LSB Number in YEM.  Look in the Motif Data List Book to see what the LSB number is for each bank you want to access.

I think you will pleasantly surprised by the results.  It's a bit of work to name all the Voices for each bank, but it is worth it. I suggest trying the Template bank first to see how it works.  Remember to set the LSB first.

How to:

1.  Load the Dummy Voice Bank.ppf and rename it to whatever Motif bank you want to access (example: Motif User 1)
2. write in the correct Voice Names
3. Set the LSB Number for the Voice bank you want to access
4. EXPORT you new Motif Voice pack and save to disk
5. Save as an Installation File (.ppi) or add to your other packs and then create an Installation File
6. When the dummy pack is installed you can select Voices on the Motif just like other packs and Preset Voices right from your arranger

If you remove the Motif packs from YEM and import them again in the future, YEM will probably change the LSB... so check the LSB of each Motif pack; it's very important to have the correct LSB Numbers

Joe H


[attachment deleted by admin]

[latingate]

With a Motif it is so easy.  See attachment.  I created the 3 User Voice Banks for my Motif Rack XS in YEM and installed them as "dummy packs". I also did this for the MRXS Multis (Performances).  You just have to name the Voices for the banks you wish to access, AND set the correct LSB Number in YEM.  Look in the Motif Data List Book to see what the LSB number is for each bank you want to access.

I think you will pleasantly surprised by the results.  It's a bit of work to name all the Voices for each bank, but it is worth it. I suggest trying the Template bank first to see how it works.  Remember to set the LSB first.

How to:

1.  Load the Dummy Voice Bank.ppf and rename it to whatever Motif bank to want to access (example: Motif User 1)
2. write in the correct Voice Names
3. Set the LSB Number for the Voice bank you want to access
4. EXPORT you new Motif Voice pack and save to disk
5. Save as an Installation File (.ppi) or add to your other packs and then create an Installation File
6. When the dummy pack is installed you can select Voices on the Motif just like other packs and Preset Voices right from your arranger

If you remove the Motif packs from YEM and import them again in the future, YEM will probably change the LSB... so check the LSB of each Motif pack; it's very important to have the correct LSB Numbers

Joe H

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Is this procedure for playing Motif voices using the Genos keyboard OR changing the voice of the Motif and playing it on the Motif keyboard without effecting the voices played by the Genos keyboard? (I am looking for the second scenario..)

Thanks,
Gal

[Joe H]

If you are wanting the second scenario. I suggest you invest in an external MIDI controller.  Anything you do to call up a Voice on the Motif from your Genos is going to effect the Genos. I've experimented with this issue quite a bit. If you create a Voice Set file with the Motif Program Change it will change the Genos too.

Sounds like you want to layer a Motif Voice with your Genos R1 Voice. To do that you will need an external MIDI controller to send a PC message to the Motif without it going to the Genos. 

Since you have R1, R2 and R3 on the Genos, it's possible the use the Motif as R1 and layer the Genos R2 and R3 with the Motif sounds.

If this is not what you are trying to accomplish... a further explanation on your part is necessary

Joe H

[latingate]

If this is not what you are trying to accomplish... a further explanation on your part is necessary

Joe H

Hi Joe,

What I am trying to accomplish is that registration in the Genos will save voices changes of the Genos (Left, Right 1,2,3) as well as voice changes in the external keyboard (such as Motif) so that I can simultaneously play in both keyboards - I will play the Genos as usual, using all 4 voices, and at the same time I will play the external keyboard with its own voices.

Hope now it is more clear.. thanks 

[Janus]

use midi A en B  2x16 channels
make a midi setup to send channels out to the extern keyboard
use the free channels not in use with the genos arranger
route those channels to midi B output en give them the data to make changes on the extern keyboard
like prg en control data

[Joe H]

Since the arranger keyboard is not designed as a controller keyboard per se, you will have to find some workaround.  I tried creating a MIDI file and playing it on the keyboard, but it did not change the Motif module.

You can try Janus' suggestion.  You can also try creating a Multi Pad with the specific Motif Voice message, but you will have to set the Motif to receive on channel 5 (MP button 1). That worked for me, but I don't know if that's what you want either.

I think the simplest solution is to get a MIDI controller that sends Program Change messages.  But the easiest solution is to use the dummy bank approach and use R1 for the Motif.  It's a compromise, but that will give you full access to all the Motif Voices (on-the-fly) and you can save the R1 Voice in a registration as you have described.

You will need to create a special MIDI Configuration on the Genos for the above setup and turn Local Off for R1. I assume you have a 2 tier keyboard stand with both keyboards mounted one above the other and you want to switch your right hand playing between them.

Joe H

[soryt]

Not so easy after all ,

[Janus]

you can use part settings
use right 3 voor the external keyboard
send the midi channel from part 3 to the external keyboard
Now you can make a perf with settings for that part

[Pino]

Now look for the program change for a 'Violin' on your Motif(reference book)
Change the patch numbers (MSB/LSB/PC) on your 1.MIDIxxx in Song Creator and save as eg.  1.Violin.M    
Exit to the Home-screen, you should be able to see 1.ViolinM in the SongWindow (top RHS)

[Pino]

Save to Registration - Name MIDItest1.  -    Genos L-R1-R2-R3 OFF,
You should now hear your Motive violin voice only, playing on Genos.

Once you grasp the workflow then it's as easy as ABC and only takes few seconds to set-up.

Let me know if all is working for you at this stage.
Then I can take it a bit further,

Pino

[Joe H]

Pino,

You forgot to mention you have to set the MIDI configuration to SONG. That method works, but when you save a song in a registration... you still have to manually play the song after you press the registration.  The OP wants to just be able to press a registration button only and make all the changes to his Genos and Motif.

Joe H

[Pino]

Joe, please read again,
If we're editing in SONG CREATOR then it's obviously a SONG
Yamaha calls MIDI CH 1-16 Song

Your sending a Midi out PC (that will only send on SONG, 1-16)
And Receiving a Midi in PC (module)
It's been like that since MIDI kicked off all them years ago.
Where's the problem?
Match your Channels

Pino

[Joe H]

Pino,

Read again the OP wants SIMPLE... just press a registration button.

The dummy expansion pack is far to superior to any other method.  You can select any (favorite) Motif Voice from the dummy expansion pack(s). You can save the (registration) settings for Motif R1 from the Mixing Console for the Motif Voice, including the Arp Type selected for R1.

While I acknowledge it takes a bit of work to create a dummy pack in the first place... the options are far greater than any other method and it will be EASY to select a Motif Voice right from a list on the Genos screen just like any other Voice.

Joe H

[Pino]

Yes Joe
If you don't want to read then just look at the photos
Press a registration and it will do a patch change on the external keyboard
Save 8 registrations and it will do 8 different Program changes plus play whatever you want on the Genos
It's as simple as that
Pino

[Joe H]

Not on my keyboard is doesn't.  I have to press play on the sequencer AFTER you press the registration button. And you have to do a special MIDI configuration as well. That's not so simple.

I own a Motif and I know what I'm talking about. There are many advantages to the dummy pack approach. (you can create Voice banks with just your favorite Motif Voices; not all 128 Voices in each bank)

1. Select the R1 Motif Voice like any other Voice right from the Genos
2. Make tweaks or adjustments in the Mixing Console for R1... Volume, Pan, Reverb, Chorus, Filter-cutoff, Resonance, Tunings
3. Then there is the option of using the Genos Harmony/arpeggiator settings for the Motif Voices
4. You can play the Motif right from the Genos keyboard (saved by a registration)
5. Layer Genos R2 and R3 voices with the Motif

All the above can be saved in a registration... far more possibilities than just sending a PC message to the Motif.  As I stated above... the only compromise is not having the Genos R1 Voice... (small sacrifice for all the benefits stated above)

It's really up to the OP which way he wants to go.  I'm just giving him some good options if he chooses to go that route.

Joe H

[soryt]

Weekends for me is gigging time, so, busy
Back soon and yes, easy.
Soryt
Didn't I see to you comment about this subject before?
Shouldn't you be able to contribute something here by now??

Pino

Why so angry reaction ?
As I see al the response it isn't so easy after al

Soryt

[Pino]

Soryt
I just didn't see much purpose for your post really
It didn't contribute nothing,
Anyway, apologies if your thought i was out of order.

Joe
I tried to write down how easy it is to make Programme changes including sending out Program change for PDF readers and as many external keyboards or modules as you want up to the 16 midi channels

Ive been working with midi and arranger keyboards for a long, long time and everything works reliably at my gigs but if you say it not working on your Motif then I will leave it with you, maybe I need to understand more about Motif.

Good luck.

Pino

[Joe H]

... Ive been working with midi and arranger keyboards for a long, long time... maybe I need to understand more about Motif...

I've been at it for more than 28 years myself.  I'm not in competition with you... just presenting ideas for the OP.

The real benefit of the Motif keyboards/modules, Montage and MODX is that the Voice banks use the same MSB 063 as the expansion packs do.

I've integrated the sound module and keyboard to the extent that the Motif Rack XS has become an extension of my PSR S970.  I can play the Motif arps using the S970 Voices and can play Motif Voices using the S970 arps.  I can layer the Motif Voices with the S970 Voices.  And with the help of my trusty Peavey MIDI controller I can do a whole lot more. I have recreated the missing Panel buttons and knobs and written sy*** to access some of the arp parameters not easily accessed even on the Motif keyboard.

We are here to learn from each other, not bicker about who's ideas are better.



Joe H

[Pino]

Joe
I wasn't bickering with anybody, I was just minding my own business and writing down how to connect a YAMAHA arranger to external keyboard before you came barging in, even before I had finished uploading, with comments like, this doesn't work, that doesn't work, can't do that.

I never did comment on your article and even put a 'thanks' there for spending your time to help others.

Pino

[Joe H]

... I was just minding my own business and writing down how to connect a YAMAHA arranger to external keyboard before you came barging in ...

I'm sorry you are such a grumpy person. I'm not interested in arguing with you.

   

Joe H