We need same like Sx 900 Yamaha model without touch screen it will be less cost

[Enildo]

Eileen
I have a strong suspicion that some of the people who post all these technical wishes may not actually play much.... or not very well ....maybe they just like playing around with gadgets.
Mike

I think you are wrong, Mike.
What are arranging keyboards for?
Answer: To replace a band or multiple musicians.
In a band while the pianist is doing a solo the saxophonist is playing something over it all and each one (bass, guitar, drums, percussion) are performing their functions in tune but independent of each other.
Then we have the difficult task of "trying" to replace everyone (4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or more musicians) with just two hands. That is why we have to surround ourselves with all possible resources so that everything works out.
A feature like Half bar fill is not just a gadget for a bad singer, but a necessary feature in many songs.
A song like "Imagine" by John Lennon, we don't need a lot of resources, however a song like "Dancing Queen" by ABBA makes it hard to do everything without using features like Multipads, Split Point, Registration Memory, etc.
About Gatgets, yes, we want to make our lives easier this will not take away the brilliance of being musicians, but will increasingly refine "the art of the one-man band" (one man and his keyboard).
I'm sure you wouldn't trade your Yamaha CVP-705, which has many gadgets, for a yamaha PSR 510.
We will continue showing our art but we have to keep up with the evolution of the times and make our lives easier.
The instrument does not make the musician, but a good instrument, in the hands of a good musician, makes all the difference.

Enildo

[hans1966]

+1

[rikkisbears]

Eileen
I have a strong suspicion that some of the people who post all these technical wishes may not actually play much.... or not very well ....maybe they just like playing around with gadgets.
Mike

Definitely guilty of that one.

[mikf]

I think you are wrong, Mike.
What are arranging keyboards for?

The instrument does not make the musician, but a good instrument, in the hands of a good musician, makes all the difference.

Enildo

I am certainly not saying that all requests for technology improvements are frivolous or from people who don't play. I was responding to a point that Stephen made that these demands are growing, despite the wealth of additional features that now exist. I agree with him, and I think there is a reason for that.
The original arrangers and home organs provided pretty good accompaniment and voices  for their time, and were bought by people who wanted to learn to play, and a small percentage who played for a living. They were actually pretty good instruments for their time but did not provide the depth of technology and features that now allow people to manipulate almost every aspect of the sound produced. These additions have not made them any less attractive to the original typical user, that still represent the majority of buyers, but has drawn in a new group of users. Not all, but certainly a higher proportion of these 'new' users just enjoy playing around and experimenting with the technology and the sound it makes, rather than traditional playing. And they do tend to be both more technology savvy, and more demanding of additional features.  Nothing wrong with that if this is what they enjoy, but just making the point that the demand may not be as widespread as it seems from balance of posts.
I believe the  sheer number of posts by this relatively small group, especially relative to new models, can give the misleading impression that this is more important than it actually is to the majority.
That is not to say that there are not some very good players who also want additional features, but my experience is that most experienced pros playing OMB for a living, and spending their lives playing covers all night know that they don't need all these features or to produce perfect copies to be successful. The three golden rules are , - play something close to the well known intro. sing it well, don't play too many wrong chords. And of these the second is by far the most important. They know that spending forever worrying about the perfect compressor setting, or tweaking an already pretty decent preset makes negligible difference compared to competence in playing and singing. These other things are more about personal rather than audience satisfaction.   
Put a little more crudely, if you sing and play well, no one but you is going to notice that half bar fill feature.
Mike

[EileenL]

Very well put.

[vbdx66]

Hi Mike,

Besides the geeky guys who want all the bells and whistles and the pros who are making gigs for a living, there is a third type of player around I think: the home players who, in the past, would have bought an old-fashioned upright or grand piano (or an electric organ), but who now prefer to buy an arranger keyboard because of the profusion of sounds, styles and cool features.

I started learning the piano the old-fashioned way, but excepted if you're really into classical music, it is so much fun to arrange a tune with different sounds and have a full band providing the accompaniment than to play it just on the piano (excepted if you're into jazz maybe, but that's another story altogether).

So in fact I am interested in new, geeky, cool features not for the sake of them, but because I think it will help me make better music.

Just my 2 cents,

Vinciane

[mikf]

Agree Vinciane , that third group you mention are actually the majority of typical arranger buyers.
Mike

[Enildo]

So in fact I am interested in new, geeky, cool features not for the sake of them, but because I think it will help me make better music.

Just my 2 cents,

Vinciane

I fully agree.

We will not need all the resources but if we need to, they will be there.
In addition to the different types of users, the keyboard is sold to different regions of the world,
it is normal for a function to be more important to some and less to others.
I never had to use Organ Flutes or Music Finder, it doesn't make any difference to me, but I know it's important to many people.

Enildo

[panos]

Tyros 4 cover from our amateur keyboard player member Joost (He is changing the sounds buy using his... fast hands)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZXlxuSWieI

Tyros 5 same cover composition.(He is changing the voices with a foot pedal)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_SrBYGgPS4

Genos (He is changing the voices with a foot pedal)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHYtJXYHaMA&t=101s

I like the sound of Genos and it's features but is the Tyros 4 cover less impressive because the lack of a function or functions that Genos has?
I certainly don't think so but rather the opposite.

I think that is what Michael is saying.
Yes, new functions are always welcomed and sometimes they may look important but they are never the most important thing in keyboard playing (or playing music in general).

ps
If you liked keyboardplayer's version here is another one for you to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rbZ5LEDWh8

[Enildo]

I like the sound of Genos and it's features but is the Tyros 4 cover less impressive because the lack of a function or functions that Genos has?
I certainly don't think so but rather the opposite.

I think that is what Michael is saying.
Yes, new functions are always welcomed and sometimes they may look important but they are never the most important thing in keyboard playing (or playing music in general).

ps
If you liked keyboardplayer's version here is another one for you to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rbZ5LEDWh8

Tyros 4 has the same function (changing voices through the pedal) as Tyros 5 and Genos.

What Mike said was, "I have a strong suspicion that some of the people who post all these technical wishes may not actually play much.... or not very well ....maybe they just like playing around with gadgets" and it has nothing to do.

01. There are people who play well and want more gadgets:
02. There are people who do not play as well and also want more gadgets;
03. There are people who play well and are not interested in gadgets; and
04; There are people who don't play so well, who aren't interested in gadgets either.

What I mean is, Mike's "strong suspicion" means nothing. He himself has a CVP 705 and a CVP 605, two gadget-filled instruments, which he must be using and will not crumble on an older model.

Greetings,
Enildo

[Toril S]

I am concerned about the fact that the S975 is the last keyboard in the PSR line with the old OS with total button control, and the T5 is the last of its kind as well. However, I will not judge the new PSR before I have tried it in my store. There are two issues with touch screen, you have to find the exact spot to touch, and you have to touch it the right way. These two things are difficult for two groups of players, the visually impaired and people with reduced motor functions, as for instance slight trembling. It is much easier to hit a physical button. It would help if the screen could be tilted, but Yamaha did away with that. Touch screens are not expensive any more, but they save some money by omitting the mechanism to tilt the screen. I have tried the Genos, and the new OS and the touch screen scared me away. I seriously consider buying backup keyboards with the old system, but I am also a gadget freak, so I am strongly tempted to overcome my fear of the new OS. It would be nice if Yamaha offered both systems, but that is not likely. 99 percent of the buyers will adapt to the new OS and the touch screen with only small adjustment problems.

[panos]

My friend Elnindo I was referring to the pedal function as a new function that is not in Tyros 4.
I have just indicated it because a new keyboard player cannot understand how the sounds are changing..."automatically".
Do you know what these 3 players have used in common? The great orchestra sounds of their models.
That's why I am saying that the 3 most important things on a keyboard are: the sound...the sound... and the sound (same goes with the sound and quality of the styles ).
All the rest functions and gadgets that have got nothing to do with the sound, my ears cannot "hear" them anyway, no matter how good or extra functional they may are.
The new models are constantly improve their sound.Little by little maybe? It is still the most important improvement, at least for some people.

So if someone buys a new CVP for example, maybe is not just for the new functions.
And of course I won't blame anyone who just want the latest for any other reason.

[Enildo]

 My friend Panos, maybe I don't understand you, or maybe you don't understand me.

Number 1: Tyros 4 has the same function (changing the voices on the pedal) that was shown in the video of the T5 and Genos! The musician chose not to use, but the T4 has the same function as the Tyros5 and Genos.

Number 2: When you say that the 3 important things about the keyboard are the sound, the sound and the sound, you are giving the viewer's opinion and not the musician's perspective.

Yes, for the public what matters is sound, but for the musician, "In addition to sound," other things are important as well.
By your logic we could continue here with the PSR 510 with improved sounds. It is? Just improve the sound of the T5 and launch the same keyboard named "T6" and improve the sound that everything would be fine and yamaha would sell the "T6" with the same success that sold the Genos. It is???
I think not! 

Greetings, 
Enildo

[Robert van Weersch]

I am concerned about the fact that the S975 is the last keyboard in the PSR line with the old OS with total button control, and the T5 is the last of its kind as well. However, I will not judge the new PSR before I have tried it in my store. There are two issues with touch screen, you have to find the exact spot to touch, and you have to touch it the right way. These two things are difficult for two groups of players, the visually impaired and people with reduced motor functions

That is indeed a problem for those groups, but not just with keyboards. Just look at smartphones, tablets, informational touch-displays in shops, touch-displays in car dashboards etc. Touch-screens have become quite dominant in our lives. Luckily, for smartphones, one can choose from a very limited selection of phones with a physical keyboard. But I don't think Tesla will launch a car with buttons instead of the big touch-display. The target group for arrangers is already so relatively small, that it is probably not viable to create a "non-touch" version for an even smaller group.


The only way to make waves, in the Yamaha puddle, is to gather all the people who want buttons on a keyboard and contact Yamaha in a joint effort. Discussing this on a forum, which is not owned or even officially watched by Yamaha, will not resolve to anything. As I also adviced the topic starter, Cliffort. Just my two cents

[rodrigo.b]

We need same type model sx900 Yamaha keyboard without touch screen then cost will be lower any middle class user can purchase par s 975 have to modify like sx900 then it,s great thing.. all are used to without touch screen buttons should be like new sx900 model.. all should be plastic one it will give long life. Best one to use.  It's started in particular s 670 models.. waiting for this type new modelled par s sx 900

I always hate the devices with plastic keyboards (QWERTY) or devices that only have plastic buttons because they are really harder to use. I remember when I was a child, how complicate was for me to write a message or whatever on the old Nokia and Blackberry Cell phones, it was very frustrating and then the first iPhone (2007) comes out and it starts to changes everything, no more horrible plastic QWERTY keyboards, just a beautiful giant screen. On 2013 I started studying music at university, and I needed a keyboard to practice my piano lessons and to make music with it but I didn't know anything about music keyboards. So I buy my first music keyboard, the Korg Pa600, one of the reasons I chose it was because it has a color touch screen. Then I started to listen more keyboards and I discover the Tyros 5 with an incredible sound for that time and of course with the truly amazing Super Articulation 2 Voices, it was really the power of reality and I fall in love with it. Since then I became a lover of all yamaha keyboards, especially the arranger keyboards or Digital Pianos with arranger functions (Like the CVP line).

On 2017 I have the opportunity to replace my Pa600 with the amazing PSR S970, and I love my new keyboard, it has very good sounds, styles and DSP effects but I have to admit that the interface is not so easy to use. For example, when I want to save a midi file or whatever and try to write a name, I feel the same frustration I felt with the old Cell phones that has for me what I call an horrible tortured user interface. Now I see that Yamaha introduces new mid range keyboards with touch screen, so for the future happy owners of the new SX series keyboards the torture is over! The keyboards still have buttons to operate if you want, or if you need the buttons, but also you can use the beautiful touch screen with an easy to use interface to navigate, to write something or to select what you want.

Then I read your post and I really can't believe what I'm reading now . If I understood correctly you are saying that you want a new keyboard with an old display and the same old interface with buttons? Is that what you want? 

I know that the touch screen could make the keyboard more expensive but maybe you have another reason that I don't know, and for me is very important to understand and respect to all the opinions, even if you don't share that opinion. So please explain me, Why do you want Yamaha to torture us with this kind of harder to use interface?

[panos]

Enildo,
I give my point of view when I start my keyboard and I touch the first note and all I want to do is to hear beautiful sounds and melodies.So I expect nice voices and styles by the keyboard and correct notes and harmonies by me to the point that my restricted playing and hearing allows.

If a psr 510 had a nice sound (voice samples and well made styles) but a new model had 100 new features and functions but not that good sound,then I would choose the older one, if that is what you are asking.
I believe that I am not the only one that I have chosen to buy a keyboard primary for the sound it can produce and not just because it has this or that function.
The new PSX 900 from the limited videos we have seen until now, sounds much better than expected than the previous s970/s975 to my opinion for example.
New functions,new interface,new look are always welcomed of course, I don't disagree with you on that.

[Danny1972]

We need same type model sx900 Yamaha keyboard without touch screen then cost will be lower any middle class user can purchase par s 975 have to modify like sx900 then it,s great thing.. all are used to without touch screen buttons should be like new sx900 model.. all should be plastic one it will give long life. Best one to use.  It's started in particular s 670 models.. waiting for this type new modelled par s sx 900

Perhaps the PSR SX300 may be the model you're looking for? We know nothing about this so called model, or if it even exists, but if it does surface then it may be what you're looking for.

[EileenL]

I think that we have to respect that the members who are asking for buttons to be retained are the ones with sight problems that can negotiate button positions better. I can fully appreciate this and Genos has a voice guide which dose work very well. It dose mean feeling the distances of the screen and pressing a few times to see what you are selecting as the voice will tell you but it probably means a lot more work for some to remember the positions.

[mikf]

I think suggestion of the elimination of the screen by the OP was motivated only by achieving a more affordable price, but that was not realistic.

Enildo - I don't disagree with you that everyone gets some benefit from some features. That includes me, but I don't delve deep. Maybe its a bit more than Panos said in sound, sound , sound because I think all players also look for what I could call good playability. That can be  everything from easy settings to keyboard feel. But in common with a lot of players I largely use the instrument as it comes. I never manipulate voices, or even download other peoples voice edits for example, because they are so good compared to what I had years ago that I don't feel much need. I don't do much with styles because I like the styles to be pretty simple, and just let my playing create the interest. Typically when I played in small bands it was bass, drums, guitar and vocalist. So that's what I tend to like now in a style. If I do any editing at all on styles, its just to cut back voices or phrases I find distracting. We are all different, but I truly believe that a very large number of owners are pretty minimalist when it comes to deep features, software apps etc.
When I changed from a psr to a CVP it was 100% driven by the piano feel and sound, and wanting a more furniture-like piece of hardware. The 605 just happened to be the latest model available in the store at the time. So of course that is what you buy, the latest and greatest. When I needed a second CVP for a different location a couple of years later the 705 was what was in the store. It was nice to have something newer but I was never driven by the need to upgrade for any particular feature, and in fact the only truly noticeable difference was the new Bosendorfer voice. Nice but hardly a buying decision on its own.
I could probably easily go backwards to earlier models and not miss much, except for two features absent in those earlier models  - touch screen and direct audio recording. They make a big difference to convenience if not to how the music sounds. I would have to give them up now.
Mike

[Enildo]

Hi Mike, sorry for lengthening this discussion.

Your comment has now been far more reasonable than the first.
I agree with you on some points and the song is that, there are several branches, each one follows a line. Your thinking is not wrong, but you are not the only one and your way of making music is not the only one. I'm glad we have a wide variety of styles and ways to make music around the world. Maybe a feature like "Chord Looper" wouldn't change you, but for those who want to use the keyboard to make electronic music, it will make a big difference, as the musician will have both hands free to use for other functions, or to play. another thing. Glad you agree that some Gets are important when I said that "touch screen and direct audio recording" make a difference to you.
In my way of using the keyboard I have to manipulate voices and styles, and since I do most of the shows on my own, I need a lot of resources to help me, like VH, Registration Memory, Pads, Audio Riffs, effects, etc.
I know I'm not as good with my fingers on the keys as you are, but in my way of making music I'm pleasing people.

greetings
Thanks for the debate,
Enildo

[pjd]

I think the OP was asking for a low cost keyboard with features similar to the SX900. It's really up to Yamaha's engineers to figure out how to hit that price point.

Eileen's comment about buttons for players with vision problems is well-taken. I don't presume to know how to make a keyboard easier to use for people with limited or no vision. Shucks, the UIs that I designed were horrible for the sighted. 

I'm sure that the engineers take volume discounts, wiring, assembly, testing, etc. into account and cost is never as simple as just the component cost alone. Further, a very large portion of keybaord costs are development, including voice, multipad and style development.

All the best -- pj

[cliffordleo1965]

finally i upgraded from psr s 950 to psr s 975... because, its cost was less. and more futures in it. sx 900 cost is more.. we cant perches..  waiting for any new models from yamaha

[cliffordleo1965]

We need same type model sx900 Yamaha keyboard without touch screen then cost will be lower any middle class user can purchase par s 975 have to modify like sx900 then it,s great thing.. all are used to without touch screen buttons should be like new sx900 model.. all should be plastic one it will give long life. Best one to use.  It's started in particular s 670 models.. waiting for this type new modelled par s sx 900

[beykock]

I understand the SX900 pricing might be a serious problem for a certain number of home players ( like me ).

Sometimes people have other financial obligations and/or priorities.

I went for the SX700 and did not regret my decision at all.
I like the SX700 very much.

It is well known the SX900 has 10 features which are not present in the SX700 but the SX700 has a great sound and is a small pro keyboard at an acceptable street price, IMHO.

It is absolutely true the SX900 offers more than the SX700.
BUT ... all depends on the owner's needs and wishes, I guess.

Babette 

[Toril S]

Congratulations Babette!!

[ash1]

hi Babette good choice the sx700 is a superb keyboard

[cliffordleo1965]

now days Yamaha sx price and Yamaha psr s 975 prices are only 5,000/. indian rupees difference. why its like that any difect is there in sx 900 yamaha keyboard, let me know please. any one please reply me

[Enildo]

Congratulations Babete! Enjoy your new year gift!

Enildo

[cliffordleo1965]

yamaha sx 900 and psr s 975 now prize is only 5000/... indian rupees.. so let me know about this why prize is less for sx 900 any problems in that please let me know

[konaboy]

like others have said a touch screen UI is actually cheaper than hardware UI, plus more flexible, manufacturer can introduce new features with firmware updates for existing hardware layout etc. It's debatable user experience is enhanced with touchscreen, personally I prefer the tactile feedback of physical buttons.
Cost of a 7" touch screen from China seems to be about $30.