My Genos Froze.

[mikf]

This idea of carrying a spare is something that sounds good on paper, but in practice if you have done a lot of gigs, you would know that every additional piece of equipment is not just a cost, but something to be loaded, unloaded, carried, stored, cared for, checked periodically and kept up to date. OMB people have no roadie to do this for them, so if Abby is anything like me, he keeps it to the minimum possible. Especially with a back up keyboard which is actually pretty unlikely ever to be needed, because if it locks up, it would usually be quicker to re boot, and re run the failed keyboard than setting up a new piece of equipment. And you would ALWAYS try that first anyway. If it is a power issue the other  keyboard will not work anyway, so it is only in the very unlikely circumstance - maybe one gig in a thousand - that a keyboard totally and suddenly stops working for no external reason and cannot be re booted that the second keyboard would be any use. And in any case, Abby has a back up - a digital piano, not ideal but in an emergency, I bet an experienced pro like Abby could mug through a show with it. And where do you stop, do you duplicate everything just in case??? Apart from high level pros with an entourage I doubt anyone does that. Basically, its just a very small risk, like a new car breaking down, that hopefully never happens, and if it does ... well you just have to live with it. 
Mike

[Pianoman]

You hit it right on the nail Mike.

First, there are no power issues in any of the hotels that I work in here.
I'm sure that they have a all kinds of precautions in place anyway.

I already have a second powered mixer, tyre repair kit and battery powered pump,
oil, radiator fluid, powered screw drivers and all kinds of instrument repair tools in the car.

I also had a backup Yamaha PF 100 Clavinova at home, that I eventually donated
to the primary school where my son used to go to.
The headmaster is a friend.

There just isn't enough space anymore im the car.
So I would have to rush home to pick up whatever backup instrument
that may be needed.

Like I wrote in my original post, the T3 ran like clockwork for 10 years.
I even commented to a pub owner that the board was indestructible.

Anyway, I'm getting the hang of my Genos now, thanks to Lee for helping me out
with EQ issues, as well as all the good advice that I've been receiving from all the
members responding to my issues.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Lee Batchelor]

For a veteran pro like Abby, instead of investing another $6000 (or whatever your price is), he could create an audio backup list of tunes. It would take time, but he could record an entire gig's worth of music, play it back, and just sing to the tracks while faking the hand movements. The only downside is, he wouldn't be able to take requests.

I also like the suggestion of just using the Kawai piano. He could sneak by with it - just not as lively. No good for a dance.

[beykock]

Hi Mike,

I agree it might be a problem to load / unload 2 arranger keyboards but it must be much harder for a pro gigger if he/she cannot perform and must go home ( without payment ? ).

However, the audience and the ( hotel ) owner will be very disappointed. They are paying to be entertained.

It might be a risky challenge, I guess.

A spare like a PSRS 970/975 too heavy ... ?
Why not replace the piano by an extra arranger keyboard ?

Is there another alternative if one is gigging 6x in one week ?

Maybe other ( ex )giggers can answer these questions and are willing to share their experiences.

Babette

[Pianoman]

Hello Babette.

Good suggestions, but I can't perform without a piano.
I am a pianist first and foremost, the arranger is just an added sweetener/bonus.

I drive a Chrysler PT Cruiser exclusively for transporting my gear.
I also have a VW Golf for personal use.

I couldn't even add a toothpick into the Chrysler. It's full to the brim.
Apart from the arranger and mixer that I take inside the house every night,
the rest of my gear stays permanently in the car for at least 6 months a year.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[mikf]

Many of us have been there done that like Abby - vehicle packed every square inch with gear. The thing is that you would be carrying the spare every time and probably never use it. And sure as fate, if you carry a spare keyboard it would actually be something else that lets you down.
Extra equipment is more of an issue than people who don't do this regularly understand. I always thought the hardest part of playing gigs was loading the equipment back into a car at 2 am when everyone else is gone, probably through three fire doors and down 2 sets of stairs, and when you are dead tired. Believe me, at that point you are not thinking 'wish I had brought some spare equipment just in case'.
I had a few equipment issues when I was playing regular gigs, but always found a way to get through it. The hardest thing is to think straight about what might be going wrong when you are under the pressure of an expectant audience.
wasn't a possibility in the days when I was playing gigs, but the ultimate fall back position nowadays is to have a bunch of music on your iPhone, and become a DJ for the evening if all else fails!
Mike

[Pianoman]

Hello Lee.

I believe that you are a person who has extensive  knowledge about Subwoofers, to
the point of even building your own.

I personally have absolutely no clue about getting the best settings out of them.

From this picture of the rear panel that I am sending, what settings would you recommend
for the Genos?

Especially regarding the High Cut and Boost Frequency.
It is a 2200W powered Subwoofer.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Best Regards.
Abby.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[travlin-easy]

I performed 6 to 7 days/nights a week for decades, and I carried a Bose L1 Compact, spare mics, spare cables, even a spare laptop. I had a complete, identical setup at home ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure, which never happened. However, I did have an amp failure, once, and within five minutes, I replaced it with my spare and was back in business.

Like Abby, I had contracts, 50 of them, that had to be fulfilled, which was my legal obligation to my clients. When I was hospitalized, I made arrangements for someone to cover for me, which was spelled out in my contract.

I carried all my gear in my Dodge Grand Caravan with room to spare. If the van were to drop dead, I could fit all my gear in  my wife's Buick and still go to work until the van was repaired - that never happened.

I have seen many of Abby's performances on You Tube, and his piano is an integral part of his overall performance. Keep in mind that not only is Abby a great musician, he is also a fantastic entertainer. He utilizes both the keyboard and piano to their fullest. Audiences see this and respond positively, which is why he is in demand. If his keyboard were to unexpectedly die on the job, I'm confident he could finish the performance using just his piano and vocals and the audience would be none the wiser.

In my case, most of my performances were just an hour long, sometimes two shows a day and on rare occasions, three performances a day. Therefore, I streamlined my setup, selected the lightest gear possible that would provide the highest quality sounds, which decreased my setup and tear-down time to just 7 minutes and I never broke into a sweat. Because I relied heavily on my vocals, if my keyboard were to die on the spot, I would be able to finish the job by just utilizing my laptop PC, prerecorded midi files, Van Basco's MIDI/Karaoke Player and my amp. The keyboard would be replaced as soon as I got home and primary board would go to the repair center the same day. In this instance, I was no different than the plumber with extra spigot washers in the truck, or the electrician with spare circuit breakers and wire on hand.

Home players and weekend warriors who do not rely on their equipment to make a living have far more flexibility and do not have to load and unload their equipment on a daily basis, which can be hard on sensitive electronic gear, especially arranger keyboards which have dozens of tiny plugs and multiple circuit boards. As a pro, musical entertainer, we must treat this as a business venture, with such additional expenses as backup equipment. Fortunately, our equipment is very reliable and failures are extremely rare.

Fortunately, Abby has been able to resolve some of his issues and work around others. Hopefully, he will not experience another freeze-up.

Good luck,

Gary

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Abby. I'm glad to help with you subwoofer settings.

The sub is designed to extend the low-frequency range of your two Mains. It would be handy to have the frequency response specs for your Mains, but I'd wager they probably produce frequencies down to about 55 Hz. Depending on how the Low Cut filter is designed, the Mains may be able to reproduce a four string bass guitar open E note, which is 41 Hz, but not very loud or warm. That's where the sub helps.

Your picture shows a High Cut knob. In plain English, the term, "High Cut" (also known as a High Pass filter) means "What is the highest frequency that I want my subwoofer to produce?" I can only see part of the range because the knob is in the way, but I'm assuming the range is from 50 Hz to 150 Hz? You currently have it set at 100 Hz. This means the subwoofer is producing all notes up to 100 Hz and probably a bit more. This is too high because your Mains can easily produce frequencies down to 55 Hz. In plain English, this means that the frequencies between 55 Hz and 100 Hz are being produced by all three speakers - not good. This can create a very muddy sound and also give you a lot of undefined bass.
Therefore, I would set the High Cut at 80 Hz and no higher. My two Bose Compacts are very linear down to 65 Hz. I also set my High Cut to 80 Hz.

The Boost knob is used for filling in a low-frequency sound that has been canceled usually due to room response or phase issues between the Mains and your sub. The good news is, you can turn the Boost switch Off. Your speakers are of very good quality, so it's highly unlikely you need to boost any frequency. One exception is if your playing dinner music where the ambient noise is fairly low and you just want to warm up the bass a bit. In that case, you can turn the switch On and set the boost to about 45 Hz. You can do that by playing a chord on the Genos and listening to the bass line to see if there is an improvement. If you don't hear a drastic improvement, leave it Off. Without a huge explanation about the Phase switch, set it to the Norm position.

Final settings
Set the High Cut to 80 Hz
Set the Boost switch to Off
Set the Phase to Norm

Let me know how it works for you. There should be a huge improvement in the bass clarity. As a side note, your current settings can create howling and rumble in a hall the tends to echo. That's the last thing you need!

- Lee

[Pianoman]

Thank you Gary for your comments and praise.

What you say regarding gear, set up and tear down times is the truth.
I've  always been a big fan of yours and highly value your professional
tips.

You know the joys and stresses of this job.

I have to rush off to my gig now so I can't add more comments.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Pianoman]

Hello Lee.

Thank you for the quick response, much appreciated.
I'm of to try out your suggestions now, and will let you know the results.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[StuartR]

Stuart, Abby uses some heavy-duty equipment while performing, and most of the USP systems I've seen that would handle that much current cost well over $200. The system you quoted would be for the keyboard only and not the amps, mixer, lights, etc...

Gary 

Right Gary... the UPS should only be needed on gear that contains computer- based OSs and have significant restart (boot up) times, like the Genos.
A good EMI/RFI filtering surge protector should be used ahead of all the gear.  IMHO of course.

[beykock]

Hi Gary,

Your experience information is very interesting and useful.
Thank you so much for sharing it. I learned a lot.

In my perception the daily life of a One Man's Band is not easy at all.

Expensive and heavy equipment ( = big car, reliable instrument(s), mics, amplifiers, speakers, mixer etc.), no personnel and long, late and hard working hours.
And ... last but not least : almost no family life.

It looks like a pro gigger needs a lot of work and customers to have an attractive income.
Nowadays not so easy to find, I guess.

Best wishes, Babette

[Lee Batchelor]

Glad to help, Abby! Yes please, let us know if you hear any improvement. If not, please post links to the speaker specs of your Mains and sub. Thanks...

- Lee

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.......I think you have to learn a lot about how to use and how to handle
a complex instrument as a Genos .

That takes time and you are in this situation just a "beginner" .
So start learning today and try to understand your instrument .

Normal members do not write long messages with only complaints .

When a normal player does not understand something he/she askes  "how to questions "

Employees in musicshops think that you are payed for your bashing messages , that could be right .

I am not sure that you own a Genos .

Mark Z. keeps claiming  anyone who critisizes Genos does not own one. Last year he claimed I did not have one. Dear Pianoman, just wait and he will call you a "Clown", a title he he was allowed to bestow on me. He also claimed I was considered a fool on German sites just like he claims "Employees in musicshops think that you are payed for your bashing messages"

For reasons I have not been able to find out Mark Z. enjoys special protection on this site.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Toril S]

Abby, just curious: Where on the keyboard do you use RADIATOR FLUID. (Just kidding a little). Wish you all the best with your gigs, and am happy that you are starting to be friends with your Genos.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Babette,

.....It appears you either love Genos, or hate it, and there's not much in between....

Cheers,
Fred

Hello Fred,

I am kind of  "in between" and hope the update will push me to the  "supporters".  I remember your list, hope YAMAHA did what you asked for.

BTW,  did anyone dare bet with you about whether there will be an update?  Needless to say, I did not.

Cheers

Kaartlo

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

It might happen electronic instruments and/or computers are freezing.
Maybe most of us experienced this frustrating action once or twice.
The reason why it happens is not easy to find out. IMHO technicians can answer that question.

Babette

You are right. As has been said here, the mains in the place you gig at are  a critical factor. I had the problem a few times with Genos. But it was always in hotels in the countryside, never in Helsinki.   
It never happened to me with the Tyros series, so it might also have to do with how big the capacitors on the DC side in the electronics  are. I opened up my Genos to make the smallest range of the pitchbender less than 1/2 note (which is ok for hawai-guitars and trombones but too much for saxes and trumpets) So I contemplated to  install additional capacitors but did not do that because I was afraid the additional currant draw to charge the capacitors on power up might be a problem.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Pianoman]

Mark Z. keeps claiming  anyone who critisizes Genos does not own one. Last year he claimed I did not have one. Dear Pianoman, just wait and he will call you a "Clown", a title he he was allowed to bestow on me. He also claimed I was considered a fool on German sites just like he claims "Employees in musicshops think that you are payed for your bashing messages"

For reasons I have not been able to find out Mark Z. enjoys special protection on this site.

Cheers

Kaarlo

Hello Kaarlo.

It's good to hear from you.
I did answer Mr. Mark Z here and also posted the answer to him via PM as well,
in case he missed it here in this thread.

I got a nasty response and an even nastier PM back for my efforts to encourage civility.
The vitriol was ferocious and unwarranted.

Such things are just not done between members.
But these are the times that we live in, where anonymity on the internet encourages
the worst instincts in people.

I'm not sure about the subject of Mr.Mark Z enjoying special protection, but I do remember
that when he called you a "Clown in a white suit" I was the only one who condemned
such language.

I did urge others to condemn it too, and all I heard was silence.
Silence in a situation like that is also a form of approval.

It is very normal to love one's instrument, especially after having paid a lot of money for it,
But to try and oblige others to do the same, and insult them if they don't, , or to form a cult
mentality around an inanimate object is weird, to say the least.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[mikf]

Mark has no special protection, he is now gone from the forum.
Sometimes the moderators just miss things, or decide to allow it to run to see if it is a one off, but it is now dealt with.
Mike

[Pianoman]

Glad to help, Abby! Yes please, let us know if you hear any improvement. If not, please post links to the speaker specs of your Mains and sub. Thanks...

- Lee

Hello Lee.

I did try your recommendations last night and set the High Cut to 80 Hz and the boost
to off.
There was a marked improvement in the Sub's sound response, giving a rich overall
sound to the Genos.

Midway through the gig I decided to set the High Cut down to 70Hz and switchiing on
the Boost but leaving it on 40 Hz.

Both sounded good, but regarding the 70Hz and 40Hz Boost, it could also have been
because of the room that I played in, which had plenty of wood panelling and carpets.

Here are the specifications for the mains and the sub that you requested.

They're the only ones that I could find.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[beykock]

Hi Abby :

Silence does not ( always ) mean I agree with comments given by some ( ex ) members of this group.

As far as I know only moderators of this group have the power to act if comments are not acceptable.

Babette

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for the specs, Abby. I'm glad to hear there was an improvement. You are 100 percent correct in trying some adjustments outside of my basic recommendations. The room and people within it can have a pronounced effect on the overall sound.

Even professional loudspeaker designers who use very sophisticated software agree that when the equations and frequency response graphs show a near perfect speaker design, their ears are the final judge. They often make adjustments to the crossover circuitry that messes up those graphs but for some reason, the speaker just sounds better in the test booth.

I'll read through those specs and post back soon. Thanks...

- Lee

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Abby,

I just went through your speaker specs. I was very curious to know the dB level of the Boost circuitry. The bass is boosted by 10 dB at the selected frequency, with a Q value = 1!! This means, if you turn the Boost on, the chosen frequency is boosted to twice the perceived volume. I would reserve that setting for outdoors only.

According to the spec sheet, your Mains respond from 55 Hz to 16,000 Hz. Your sub has a usable frequency range of 45 Hz to 150 Hz. The specs also mention that the sub can reproduce frequencies down to 32 Hz, but that's at -10dB. This means the sub is really only effective down to 45 Hz and maybe a little lower. Bass guitar notes in the low range will sound okay but a lot of the lower harmonics that give the bass a warm sound will be missing. Perhaps you hear this too? Worse, is the fact that a lot of the bass notes are being reproduced by all three speakers, which can create issues. You're probably achieving a decent sound but I question whether the Behringer is a good match with the EONS, especially at 42 kg. The last thing I want to you think is that you bought the wrong sub! As mentioned, if the sound is pleasing to you, the patrons, the crowd, and management, then you're winning. The EONS are pretty linear down to 55 Hz. It would be nice to have a sub that can be dialed down to 60 Hz or so. But as engineers say, "You either raise the bridge or lower the river."

Here are some further recommendations for your setup:

• Leave the High cut on the sub at 70 dB
• Place the sub off center to the Mains and the wall behind it, if there is one. Never center your sub on stage. Also, never place any speaker in a corner.
• If there is a wall behind the sub, keep the sub off that wall by at least one foot or about one-third of a meter
• Turn down the Bass controls that feed the two EONS from your mixer. If you can force the EONS to only reproduce frequencies down to about 65 Hz, you'll hear a huge difference.

That's about it for now, Abby. Give these further ideas another try. I may have some other suggestions. Please send me the model number of your Yamaha mixer. I may be able to offer further adjustments at the source. Wish I could be there to work on this with you!! We'd have a lot of fun. Thanks...

- Lee

[travlin-easy]

Abby, When MarkZ made that statement about Kaarlo, I sent Mark a PM and informed his this would not be tolerated. Apparently, he did not get the message.

Gary

[Pianoman]

Hello Gary.

You're a "Gent" as the English would say.
Mind you, wasn't flinging accusations in every direction.
I knew that there would be responsible people like yourself or Mike
who wouldn't let that kind of behaviour stand.

I'm enjoying a night off tonight and getting ready to treat my wife to
a nice Italian dinner.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[beykock]

Enjoy your evening, Abby !😁

Babette

[Pianoman]

Hi Abby,

I just went through your speaker specs. I was very curious to know the dB level of the Boost circuitry. The bass is boosted by 10 dB at the selected frequency, with a Q value = 1!! This means, if you turn the Boost on, the chosen frequency is boosted to twice the perceived volume. I would reserve that setting for outdoors only.

According to the spec sheet, your Mains respond from 55 Hz to 16,000 Hz. Your sub has a usable frequency range of 45 Hz to 150 Hz. The specs also mention that the sub can reproduce frequencies down to 32 Hz, but that's at -10dB. This means the sub is really only effective down to 45 Hz and maybe a little lower. Bass guitar notes in the low range will sound okay but a lot of the lower harmonics that give the bass a warm sound will be missing. Perhaps you hear this too? Worse, is the fact that a lot of the bass notes are being reproduced by all three speakers, which can create issues. You're probably achieving a decent sound but I question whether the Behringer is a good match with the EONS, especially at 42 kg. The last thing I want to you think is that you bought the wrong sub! As mentioned, if the sound is pleasing to you, the patrons, the crowd, and management, then you're winning. The EONS are pretty linear down to 55 Hz. It would be nice to have a sub that can be dialed down to 60 Hz or so. But as engineers say, "You either raise the bridge or lower the river."

Here are some further recommendations for your setup:

• Leave the High cut on the sub at 70 dB
• Place the sub off center to the Mains and the wall behind it, if there is one. Never center your sub on stage. Also, never place any speaker in a corner.
• If there is a wall behind the sub, keep the sub off that wall by at least one foot or about one-third of a meter
• Turn down the Bass controls that feed the two EONS from your mixer. If you can force the EONS to only reproduce frequencies down to about 65 Hz, you'll hear a huge difference.

That's about it for now, Abby. Give these further ideas another try. I may have some other suggestions. Please send me the model number of your Yamaha mixer. I may be able to offer further adjustments at the source. Wish I could be there to work on this with you!! We'd have a lot of fun. Thanks...

- Lee

Hello Lee.
First off, I  would like to say a big thank you for your help.

This is a great analysis, and I will definitely try out all the ideas that you suggested.
A lot of the things you wrote make sense to me now and provide me a with better
understanding  about the Sub and it's relation to the mains.

I probably did buy the wrong Subwoofer. It was recommended by a friend who
uses one, but in combination with 12 inch QSC active mains and a Soundcraft
mixer.

Anyway, here is the information on my Yamaha EMX 5016CF Powered mixer.
I hope it is helpful.

You'll have to scroll down to page 35 for the technical specifications.

Best Regards.
Abby.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[Pianoman]

Enjoy your evening, Abby !😁

Babette

Thank you Babette .

As you said in your post above, one of the penalties of being a pro gigging musician
is that it's not easy on the family.

So I always try to treat my wife to a nice evening out when I'm free.
Or I cook her a nice dinner if she prefers to stay at home.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[panos]

Abby,
You have applied EQ  settings for each voices and every part of the style individually.
You have applied master EQ settings for your keyboard.
You have an equalizer to connect your two organ.
and you have a subwoofer with some EQ settings on it.

These all four different EQ settings affect the SAME frequencies of a sound.
(apart from the subwoofer which affects only the low frequencies as we know)

Lets say now that you lower the frequency of 440hz which is the middle A note to the style parts with the use of an effect.
The same frequency of 440hz you have boost it  with your master keyboard settings.
The same frequency you have lower it down again with your Equalizer equipment besides you.
And let's say that there are too many objects in the venue that react to the frequency of 440hz so they boost it again.

How is this frequency will sound in the end? boosted or not?

With one EQ setting (part settings) we boost a sound with the other EQ (master settings) we feel it is too boosted so we want to lower it down again,so why did we have boosted it in the first place?

This is how I understand the hard part with the sound,the EQ settings AND the effects we choose.Too many parameters 

With your Tyros over the years you have found the EQ settings that worked fine in most cases.
Genos as any other instrument can do it also but it will take you time to find out the settings that work for you.


As John has called me on Mark's thread:
"The clown with the accordion"
This is our way as friends in this forum to deal with stuff we don't like. 
We are here to learn how we can improve our playing and the usage of all the functions our keyboards provide us and this is what this forum it is for.