Getting seamless sound switching by adding a $20 Arduino

[SnowThief]

Basically my idea is that you buy an Arduino and connect it to MIDI in and out on your Genos with MIDI cables. If you don't have an Arduino, but have your Genos connected to a PC (or even a tablet), I believe you can do this for free.

To keep it simple, I'm just going to talk about the Right 1 part, but the process is the same for all four parts.

First you need to turn off the local sound of the Right 1 part on your Genos, so pressing a key doesn't actually make the Genos play a note.

Then you need to make a very small program that works like this:

Let's say you select an electric guitar with a distortion DSP as Right 1 on your Genos. The Arduino sets song channel 1 to the same guitar with the same DSP.

You then play a note. The Arduino sends the same note back on song channel 1, which plays on the Genos with the correct guitar and DSP.

You then switch to a piano with the damper resonance DSP. You won't hear anything different, because the local sound on the Genos is muted and the guitar note is still playing on song channel 1, which is unchanged. The Arduino sets song channel 2 to your selected piano and DSP.

You then play a note. The Arduino sends the same note back on song channel 2, which plays on the Genos with the correct piano and DSP. The guitar note you played is still playing on song channel 1, but any notes you play from now on will play on the piano. When you want to, you can select a new instrument and DSP, and the Arduino will enable them for song channel 1 and switch back to sending notes to that channel instead of song channel 2.

That's pretty much my entire idea. I have tested all parts on my PC (receive instrument, DSP and DSP settings, set instrument, DSP and DSP settings for the song channels), so I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work. I haven't made the actual program yet, but I will, unless someone else has already done it or tells me why it won't work. Any input?

[pjd]

Hi SnowThief --

Clever idea! Go for it!

I've built a small Arduino box with both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT, and have been thinking about doing experiments like this. I want to try remapping MIDI notes to switch articulation similar to what many VSTs do.

It's all do-able. Good luck!

All the best -- pj

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

What the heck is an Armadillo!! "It needs earthing"!

Now where did he put that midi lead!!

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[DerekA]

This is very similar to the way that VConsole works - route the output from R1/R2/R3 to some of the 16 MIDI recorder song channels, which can then be set up however you want.

This will work really well on Genos because you have 28 DSP and can assign a different one to each song channel. Tyros only has 9 and the PSRs 4.

The small downside to this approach is that it doesn't work properly when you are either playing back a MIDI file, or recording your playing.

But for "live" playing, it will work just fine - and will even let you layer up to 16 sounds if you want to (though only 8 if you want to seamlessly switch of course)

[SnowThief]

Ah, alright, so much for my "original" idea. I managed to get it to work, but I guess that doesn't matter if it's a problem that has been solved a long time ago. Recording MIDI songs while playing seems to work fine, but yeah, you can't play a 16 track MIDI song while playing. However, let's say you only need one part (Right 1) to have seamless switching with DSPs, then the Genos can still play a 14 track MIDI song while you're playing, if you want it to.

Now I just don't understand why people say that no seamless sound switching is such a big problem for the Genos, when it can literally be fixed with a $20 device that you plug into the back of the Genos. I realize it would be better if it wasn't necessary, but if you care at all about seamless sound switching, surely that's a small price to pay to get it?

[voodoo]

Now I just don't understand why people say that no seamless sound switching is such a big problem for the Genos, when it can literally be fixed with a $20 device

This is a good point.

While the Genos has plenty of DSP free, when no midi file is playing, there would be enough resources for seamless switching. So it is no hardware restriction, but a matter of software and good will.

Uli

[DerekA]

Ah, alright, so much for my "original" idea.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound critical - this idea has been proposed before for thick layers, but I'd not heard anyone suggest it as a simple way of getting seamless switching.

Incidentally, if you have different voices with DSP on R1, R2 and R3 you can freely switch between them without problems. It's only when you replace e.g. the current voice on R1 with a different one that there's an issue.

[pjd]

While the Genos has plenty of DSP free, when no midi file is playing, there would be enough resources for seamless switching. So it is no hardware restriction, but a matter of software and good will.

Oh, dear, we run the risk of re-igniting our discussions in old threads. I agree with Uli. Yamaha tried to "simplify" DSP allocation with its scheme. Rather, it would have been better to assign DSPs dynamically from a pool. Personally, I dislike the idea of having 16 DSPs locked into the SONG channels. I usually freeze MIDI to WAV audio, then use WAV audio for accompaniment. Thus, there are 16 DSP units that go largely unused in my usage scenario.

Please, I don't mean to distract from the rather fine Arduino development project that you have underway.

All the best -- pj

[pfeuh]

Hello,

I've built a small Arduino box with both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT

Is it an arduino with an extension board, are they on the same board? I'm searching for something like that for a while.

Regards,

Pfeuh

[pjd]

Hi Pfeuh --

It's an Arduino UNO and a Sparkfun MIDI shield in a bog-standard Arduino case. (Images attached.) Thanks to the case, it can be powered by either USB or AC adapter.

I wanted to build something as simple and mindless as possible. The hardest part of the job was trying to drill/make nice holes for the DIN connectors.

I left the option of adding the pots and switches to the MIDI shield.

Unfortunately, I've been too busy with travel and such to do more than test out the basic MIDI functionality. 

All the best -- pj


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[pfeuh]

Hello pjd,

Nice job, really! Unfortunatelly, I was born with 2 left hands even for drilling a simple hole. I have to make some hardware for my genos, it's a kind of nightmare, adding a couple of jack sockets and a relay board, nesting them in a box...

Regards,

Pfeuh

[Wim NL]

Is this not the same idea..? only with 1 midi cable.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,46810.msg367801.html#msg367801

[pfeuh]

No, it is not the same idea, I don't need midi for this particular projet.  Here it is.

There is a way to switch from Fingered to Fingered on Bass with a pedal board or with the Genos articulation's dedicated pedal. Unfortunately, you press the pedal, the mode is switched and 5 seconds later you don't even remember in which mode you are!

The idea is to use a system like a piano sustain: You press, you are in Fingered on Bass mode, you release you are in Fingered mode. That's why I have to use a little arduino stuff.

Whith exactly the same system, you can use a Hammond half moon rotary switch instead of a button.

[pjd]

Nice job, really! Unfortunately, I was born with 2 left hands even for drilling a simple hole.

Hi Pfeuh --

Thanks! I certainly lack those skills, too. I didn't show all of the muffed cases that I've mangled. 

Eventually, I did find one useful tool -- stepped drill bits. [Tapered drill bits might do the trick, too.] I drilled a small pilot hole for each connector and then put a stepped drill bit to work. The final hole is a little rough, but is hidden by the flange around the connector.

I've got to get back to that project...

All the best -- pj

[pfeuh]

Hi,

There is another easy tool, perhaps you can consider it, it's 3D printing. It doesn't work for me, I've tried it.

As I worked in research & development, I was surrounded by mechanics, I've often tried to draw some boxes with their software Solidworks, I've always given up, I couldn't integrate the philosophy.

Perhaps it works for you. Some little societies download your file and send you the resulted hardware for cheap.

[SnowThief]

You can also buy something like this: https://www.amazon.com/ACEPC-Computer-Windows-x5-Z8350-Bluetooth/dp/B07KJ7X215/

It's basically a cheap, tiny Windows PC that you can put on the back of your Genos. You could also buy a $200 tablet instead if you'd prefer that.

[pfeuh]

I prefer to program some Arduino stuff, I know how to do it. It's a pleasant hobby, time goes by and you don't see it. But for Windows or Android, I give up.