What all is saved when saving a style?

[JanCK]

For my song setups, I save the Style in Reg #1, and voices in #2-10.  Here's my question:   When you save a Style to a registration button, what are all the elements that are automatically included in this, ie., attached to the Style?   I'm finding that even when I make adjustments to style and voices and save it all in registration buttons, that not everything holds.   I think the problem is that when I save a style, I am unknowingly saving aspects/elements that go along with the style by default.  For instance, yesterday I learned that when you save a Style, you are also saving a LH voice.

I thought perhaps the Data List/parameter charts would answer my question, but find that I don't know how to read the charts    If this is indeed where I would find this answer, could someone give me some pointers on deciphering it?

I'm sure that I'm saving correctly, including saving the registration bank under a song title.  Save and Save Here are my new middle names.

[panos]

Hi JanCK,
lets clear some things.
You have 4 basic rows of buttons on your keyboard that they can connect to each other in different ways.
STYLE (is related with the OTS)
OTS (is related to the left & right hand voices, the style and the multi pad)
MULTI PAD (is related only with the OTS)
&
REGISTRATIONS.(related to many things)

Left hand voices are connected with the style's OTS or whatever voices you have at the moment and not with the style itself.
(but regs need a style to save left hand voices...pif)
So when you save a style in the registration no 1 you also have "marked" the voices you choose at the moment to be at no 1 registration too.

In registrations 2-8 you have "unmarked" the style so when you change to reg no2
it doesn't change whatever style you play at that moment and it doesn't care at all what style is in reg no1 or reg no3 etc.

Whatever changes you make to a style using the style creator or just the mixing console should be kept in reg1.

Is there a chance you saved the original style to reg 1 and not the modified style?
Also remember that when you save something to registrations (style,voices) you should not remove it to another folder or change it's name.
Registration cannot find it anymore.
If a Reg is looking for a Mary Loo who lives in Boston and Mary changes her name or leave the town it doesn't know where or how to find her.

Same with the right hand voices.
Every change you make to them it should be kept in Reg as long the original voices don't be moved or renamed.

Edit
I will try to find a way how you can also save the left hand voices without changing the style in regs.

[mikf]

You don't 'save' a style in a registration. You save the style in a style location. The registration only 'ponts' to the saved style you want to call up. So you must first make the changes you wish to the style and save it as a new style with a new name. Then you use a registration to point to that style location along with any other things you want in that registration. Same goes for voices etc, no files are saved in a registration. Just pointers.
Mike

[panos]

I just saw your other post and with Fred's suggestion I have
reg1 with a style an no LH voice
reg2 with no style and strings voice in LH
reg 3 with no style and piano voice in LH
and they work just fine when i move between regs.

[tyrosaurus]

You don't 'save' a style in a registration. You save the style in a style location. The registration only 'ponts' to the saved style you want to call up. So you must first make the changes you wish to the style and save it as a new style with a new name. Then you use a registration to point to that style location along with any other things you want in that registration. Same goes for voices etc, no files are saved in a registration. Just pointers.
Mike

While this is correct for Styles, this is not the case where voices are concerned.

Although registrations call up the actual 'raw' voice by it's ID (MSB:LSB:PG), many (all?) of the parameters in the 'Voice Set' (.vce) file are actually saved in a registration (in a similar manner to those saved in OTS).   

This can be demonstrated by loading a voice (preset or User) to a part (say R1), then making some changes to it's voice set parameters that are obvious when you hear the voice (e.g. extreme vibrato). 

Now, without saving the voice as a User voice, simply memorise it into a registration button.

Select a different voice for the same voice part (to 'clear' the modified voice from the part), then select the registration containing the voice.

You should hear the modified version of the voice, even though you did not save the modifications as a new voice file.


Regards

Ian

[murrayb]

To answer Jan's question at the top of this thread, the following data is saved in the registration button when Style is checked:

Style Code - each panel style has a unique numerical code assigned to it.
ACM on/off
Intro/Variation Code
Style split point
Left voice split point
Chord fingering
Sync Start/Stop status

Style volume
Style part on/off status
Each part volume
Each part balance
Each part reverb level
Each part chorus level
Each part DSP level
Rhythm 1 voice code (msb,lsb,prg)
Rhythm 2 voice code
Bass voice code
Chord 1 voice code
Chord 2 voice code
Pad voice code
Phrase 1 voice code
Phrase 2 voice code

When saved with a custom style reference:
Complete file path and name of the file.

Personally, I've never found it necessary to change the items checked when I save a registration button.  I save in each button with the exact setup I expect when the button is pressed and that includes everything (except song unless one is attached).  No guessing about what was or wasn't saved.

Cheers,

Murray

[jwyvern]

Hi Murray,
Presumably Genos registrations must store all on your list plus the types of chorus, reverb, dsp for each part or system effect, plus effect parameter levels??
An ever growing list,

John

[murrayb]

John:

It's probably going to pull that data from the voice assigned to each part. There's no change to the list of items I noted above with the Genos, so if adjustments are made to the attributes you've mentioned of a style part, I'm not sure where it's going to be saved.  There are major additions to voice DSP data, some 50 new settings that I haven't analyzed as yet, I've only had the Genos for two weeks and analyzing registrations isn't high on the priority list.

Ian, this is what is saved individually with each R1, R2, R3 and Left voice:

7      Voice on/off  0 is off, 127 is on
8      MSB code for voice
9      LSB code for  voice
10      PRG code for voice
11      Portamento Time = 0 - 127
12      Voice Volume = 0 to 127
13      Panel voice volume = 0 to 127
15       Mono = 127 / Poly = 0
17      Filter - Harmo = -/+ from 64
18      Panel Sustain = 0 to 127
19      Sound - Filter Bright =-/+ from 64
20      Effect/EQ Reverb Depth = 0 to 127
21      Effect/EQ Chorus Depth = 0 to 127
22      Sound - Vibrato - Speed = -/+ from 64
23      Sound - Vibrato - Depth = -/+ from 64
24      Sound - Vibrato - Delay = -/+ from 64
29      Sound - EG - Attack = -/+ from 64
30      Sound - EG - Decay = -/+ from 64
31      Sound - EG - Release = -/+ from 64
34       Voice Offset = 0 to 127
35      Voice Depth = 0 to 127
37      Voice Octave 0 = 64 +1 = 65
38      Controller - Filter = -/+ from 64
39      Controller - Amplitude = -/+ from 64
40      Controller - LFO PMOD= -/+ from 64
41      Controller - FMOD = -/+ from 64
42      Controller - AMOD = -/+ from 64
43      Controller - Aftertouch - Filter = -/+ from 64
44      Controller - Aftertouch - Amplitude = -/+ from 64
45      Controller - Aftertouch - PMOD = -/+ from 64
46      Controller - Aftertouch - FMOD = -/+ from 64
47      Controller - Aftertouch - AMOD = -/+ from 64

7      DSP status:  0 is off, 127 is on
8      VAR code
13      MSB DSP code
14      LSB DSP code
15      Mono code on/off: 0 is off, 127 is on
16      DSP Depth = 0 to 127


Genos has added another 10 settings to the voice attributes and over 50 new settings to DSP, yet to be analyzed.

Murray

[Bachus]

John:

It's probably going to pull that data from the voice assigned to each part. There's no change to the list of items I noted above with the Genos, so if adjustments are made to the attributes you've mentioned of a style part, I'm not sure where it's going to be saved.  There are major additions to voice DSP data, some 50 new settings that I haven't analyzed as yet, I've only had the Genos for two weeks and analyzing registrations isn't high on the priority list.

Ian, this is what is saved individually with each R1, R2, R3 and Left voice:

7      Voice on/off  0 is off, 127 is on
8      MSB code for voice
9      LSB code for  voice
10      PRG code for voice
11      Portamento Time = 0 - 127
12      Voice Volume = 0 to 127
13      Panel voice volume = 0 to 127
15       Mono = 127 / Poly = 0
17      Filter - Harmo = -/+ from 64
18      Panel Sustain = 0 to 127
19      Sound - Filter Bright =-/+ from 64
20      Effect/EQ Reverb Depth = 0 to 127
21      Effect/EQ Chorus Depth = 0 to 127
22      Sound - Vibrato - Speed = -/+ from 64
23      Sound - Vibrato - Depth = -/+ from 64
24      Sound - Vibrato - Delay = -/+ from 64
29      Sound - EG - Attack = -/+ from 64
30      Sound - EG - Decay = -/+ from 64
31      Sound - EG - Release = -/+ from 64
34       Voice Offset = 0 to 127
35      Voice Depth = 0 to 127
37      Voice Octave 0 = 64 +1 = 65
38      Controller - Filter = -/+ from 64
39      Controller - Amplitude = -/+ from 64
40      Controller - LFO PMOD= -/+ from 64
41      Controller - FMOD = -/+ from 64
42      Controller - AMOD = -/+ from 64
43      Controller - Aftertouch - Filter = -/+ from 64
44      Controller - Aftertouch - Amplitude = -/+ from 64
45      Controller - Aftertouch - PMOD = -/+ from 64
46      Controller - Aftertouch - FMOD = -/+ from 64
47      Controller - Aftertouch - AMOD = -/+ from 64

7      DSP status:  0 is off, 127 is on
8      VAR code
13      MSB DSP code
14      LSB DSP code
15      Mono code on/off: 0 is off, 127 is on
16      DSP Depth = 0 to 127


Genos has added another 10 settings to the voice attributes and over 50 new settings to DSP, yet to be analyzed.

Murray

so basically the dsp effect is saved with the voice
But not the settings of the dsp?

And how does the genos save a 2nd dsp assigned to a voice?