Using User sounds in styles

[Seagull29]

Hi,
I wrote to Yamaha Germany (where I live now) to expose a probleme with User Voices when I  wanted modify or create a style. And they answered that:

""Hello ,

Thank you for your request for style information. In fact, you can not use any user voice. Even if you could change it, the preselected voice underlies this user voice (Preset) is used. This is unfortunately the case. But you can take any extension voice. It works without any problem, these voices have their own program change number.
With a user (User), only the change of the parameters is recorded, but the voice receives no program change number. Therefore, the original voice is always taken."

So I tried to redo voices with YEM and make a Pack, as was said in the answer, with modified voices but it does not because:

- if we make a custom voice in Yem, starting from various possibilities of voices of origin contained in the T5 and that one creates a new pack, it does not work because apart from the use in Right 1, 2 or 3, in the style as in the sequencer we return to the base value, ie the original sound preset.And the identifier of the voice remains the same as the origin, contrary to what is said.
Small parenthesis: in the voices used to create Custom Voices, there is no, of course, voices Super articulation or simply the basic voices used to make them but without being able to create them (example: the Pedal Steel )

- if we do the same thing from a normal voice of a pack and modified then saved, if we load the pack, the modified voice will be usable as in the first case (R1, R2, R3) but neither in the styles, nor in the sequencer because, always the same, we return to the original voice.
Which means that on the T5, whatever you do, the changes will only be taken into account in the live game but not in the sequencer or the Creator style. The only solution is to integrate a DSP effect in the Mixing Console but, in this case, it's the whole line of an effect that will have this DSP!

So you have to create a new voice and with YEM, it's not pie. And what is annoying is that we can not copy a voice from one pack to another, whether in YEM or T5! We can just, on the T5 go through the voice set, make an ultra minimal modification and save it in User, for example, or elsewhere but the problem will always remain the same in use! And not obvious to go and collect the samples voices not even Yamaha to create the sound you want!
Other than that, Yamaha is not a hyper-locked system! I'd like to know if it's only with Tyros 5 or if it's the same with Genos

Regards and Good Advent Time

Seagull29 (from Germany)

[EileenL]

Yes it is the same with Genos. When you create a user voice by using Voice set all you are doing is adding different effects to it. You can then name it and it now will retain the name you give it when used in a registration bank and carry across all the effects but this will not happen with a style.

[jwyvern]

"The only solution is to integrate a DSP effect in the Mixing Console but, in this case, it's the whole line of an effect that will have this DSP!"

You are presumably thinking of it as a System effect in which case all voice sends can be set to zero except for the voice you are changing. Alternatively you could use an "Insert" DSP which would apply only to the 1 voice.
Mixing Console also allows you to carry out some limited tweaks for styles like a Voice Set lite, although with Tyros's I did not find them generally very effective. DSP's were far more effective eg. in bringing the rhythm channels  to centre stage than tweaks.


John

[bernamato]

I suggest a possibility:
Sample the voice with a program such as Extreme sample converter or Samplit.
After you can load it in YEM and modify the parameters and effects.

Save the pack and install. Now you can use it as a new voice in one of style's part (chord 1, chord 2, bass etc.)

[Seagull29]

Hi,
thanks for your answer. Just a quick note however: what is the interest of creating a Drums Custom Voice  if you can not use it in a style, or use it in the sequencer? Frankly, there is something about the Yamaha's arranger- keyboard philosophy of concept  that I don't understand!
Regards and have a good Week 
Seagull29

[Seagull29]

I suggest a possibility:
Sample the voice with a program such as Extreme sample converter or Samplit.
After you can load it in YEM and modify the parameters and effects.

Save the pack and install. Now you can use it as a new voice in one of style's part (chord 1, chord 2, bass etc.)

Hello, I tried it BUT it doesn't work ! The effects seem to be independant of the original sample ! you can use this modified voice in R1,2 or 3 and Left but neither in style neither in sequencer ! In this case (style or sequencer), you have only the original sample without effects !
But thanks for your suggestion. I wait for an answer of Yamaha Germany about this problem.
Regards and good Week End
Seagull29

[panos]

Hi Seagull29,
I don't have a keyboard that works with Yem but I think they made it this way
(not to allowing you to add effects in  a single voice that is used in a part of a style through Yem also)
for preventing a keyboard to run out of polyphony.
8 parts of a style x many effects+(R1+R2+R3+L1) x many effects+pad
maybe too many sounds to be handle by a keyboard.
I dont really know exactly how polyphony is measured, just a thought....

[jwyvern]

"Just a quick note however: what is the interest of creating a Drums Custom Voice  if you can not use it in a style, or use it in the sequencer? "

If you make a Custom Voice (as opposed to a so called User Voice which depends solely on Voice Set tweaks) that sounds good only because of the Samples used you can use it in a style and it will sound as you expect it to.
If you have also created the custom voice by tweaking some of the settings it is those that will be ignored in a style so if they also are important to the sound, they, including DSP will need to be added via Mixing Console (Mixer in Genos).
I used to find the Real Drums were adequate in Tyros as they could be significantly enhanced via setting a suitable system DSP  on them - High Gain Solo in the Distortion category for example. Similar can be used with Revo drums in Genos if desired.
John