Next update to Genos

[gerarde]

I started using arrangers in the early 80's.
My first on was a technics, I think, that used little cartridges for the styles.
I eventually got a Lowery MX1, then many after that and eventually started using  Yanaha arrangers.
Each one i bought was better than the last.
I currently own a Genos, after I sold my PSR S970.
Like anything I buy, whether it is a car, tv, or keyboard, I check it out.
I look at specifications, drive the car, look at the tv, watch videos on youtube at demos.
If there is something that is not in the specs, that I need, I do not buy it.
I do not buy something and then complain about it because it does not have this or that.
I know up front what it has.

Yamaha has specifications posted, features listed, and 100's of videos available for one to see, watch and hear.
I am tired of reading about the Genos should have this or that.
For me, everything I have read, watched, or listened to help me make my decision to buy a Genos.
I did not buy it on the chance that some things would be added to it.

Some of you that bought a Genos want more out of it than what is in the specifications.
That is like buying a car and have  expectations that it should have features or options that are not on the sticker.
You are buying what is on the sticker, no more, no less.
That is like buying a tv and expect it to be 4k resolution but the specs do not show it.
So, how can you buy something, after you read all the specs, and expect it to have more?

To those who do not own a Genos, and say it should have this or that, read the Specs, they tell you what it does have.

The manuals show you what you can and can not edit.
You can't get something that is not there.
IF you want something that is not there, get a different keyboard, or wait for the next Genos to come out.
IMHO, there is not another arranger keyboard that sounds and does what the Genos does.

I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just stating facts, IMHO.

Regards,
Gerard

[Antonio]

[/quote]

Hi,
I agree with PierreSW. While the Genos is a very good instrument but it is not the monster we want us to believe it is! Its direct competitor, the Korg Pa4X offers much more openness to all levels. The Genos is not a real WorkStation but a big plug & play quick and easy to use. It is only that, even if it sounds good and satisfies those who do not want to go further, which is quite respectable. But as a professional musician, this is not for me a professional instrument as much as can be the model mentioned above which offers not only the plug & play but also all the tools of creation and customization of an instrument . At least we can stand out and be more original.
Regards
Seagull29

I totally agree with you. In some ways I find the Genos is very disappointing, for a professional or advanced lover
Regards
Antonio

[EileenL]

Hello Gerard,
  At last someone I totally agree with. I love my genos and bought it to entertain myself and others which it dose beautifully. I have never mixed computers with keyboards or Daws as Genos gived me everything I need to create music.

[stephenm52]

the way I see this also is you all have to get used to this new instrument good thing,s will happen in good time and I think the best way is to make you own Registrations yes play list is good. every one should be enjoying Genos in stead of moaning about it I have enjoyed Genos since the day I got it yes ive had ups and down,s with it but it all soon fits in to place 

I usually set my playlists up by the order I'll most likely play the songs in.   Having a button to alphabetize just comes in handy, it's by no means a show stopper. 

I agree the the above post I love my Gneos and bought it both to entertain myself and audiences for the gigs I play.   I don't mix my computers with my keyboards as a rule, the more time I spend trying to do that the less time I have to work on my playing.

[Lee Batchelor]

Excellent opinions, everyone. Here are some further ideas:

Yamaha has specifications posted, features listed, and 100's of videos available for one to see, watch and hear.

When hundreds of people first bought the Genos, the only videos available for weeks were some demos mainly about EDM. As for features and specs, we read that we could record, edit sounds, and a huge host of other things. None of those features or specs mean anything until we have the Genos in our hands. The question becomes, "How well and how easy can all these things be done?" For example, recording and editing is a HUGE part of what a lot of Genos players do beyond living room playing. The Genos manual (and virtually every arranger manual going back generations) ALL say you can use a DAW to record the Genos. If recording is possible but very difficult to do because of all the hoops and rings you must jump through to even get started, then the whole creative process goes right out the window. Recording and editing on board or with a DAW are clearly marked "on the sticker" but these functions are far from easy to use and are very cumbersome - next to impossible. The DAW connectivity is a huge barrier and on board editing of a recording is archaic. I know the Genos is not a DAW nor is it portrayed as one, but the manual promises it can be used with a DAW. Good luck with that!!

If the functions don't work as promised or are cumbersome, then there is room for improvement - and I don't mean by forking out another $6,000 for Genos II. Either the features work well or they don't. I agree that the Genos is perfect to play with at home or on a gig almost right out of the box, but there are a lot of promised features that are below par and could use some streamlining. To use my earlier car analogy, Honda now uses one AC evaporator on their Odyssey minivan. They used to put two evaporators in. For the most part, the AC works fine, except for the people who live in Florida or Arizona. The sticker reads, "AC" but it doesn't work that well in certain climates like the older Odysseys did.

The moral: we're all right in our own perception. I agree with Gerard that if the Genos doesn't have something you need or want, then buy a different keyboard. However, if the sticker says it does this or that, then it better do it perfectly for the money we pay! Several members are still dealing with advanced level functions that were listed on the sticker, that don't work as promised. It's time for Yamaha to step up to the plate, especially when they jump on fixes for the other upper level keyboards practically overnight.

[stephenm52]

Hi,
I don't think so. I'm professional musician and arranger-keyboard are, for me, tools to compose or make pre-titles to show. And, also, with personal sounds. Yamaha said that Genos is a professional work station but you must have a computer to build sound with YEM, modify or build a special style is not easy. Where is pleasure and fun when you can't make all you want ?

I'm a semi-pro in the sense I'm retired and don't try to earn a full time living with the Genos.  I do however play a few gigs each month and the response to my programs has been outstanding since moving to the Genos.  I sometimes us the Korg Pa4x at gigs and generally that gets good audience response too but at the moment I prefer the Genos does everything I need it too to earn my keep to pay for my keyboard toys.

[beykock]

IMHO it is not easy to compare Yamaha's and Korg's arranger keyboards.

Both brands are manufactering pro highend arranger keyboards with their own typical features.

The choice depends on the needs and the applications of the enduser.

Some players have bought Yamaha and Korg.
Why not if their budget allows it and if the owners are willing to work with two complete different software structures.

In the past I also had a Tyros2 and a Pa2x.
I have sold the Korg and since a couple of years I prefer to play Yamaha only.

Yamaha's present arranger keyboards are plug-and-play arrangers with a very rich sound.

There is so much Yamaha software available on the market and second hand Yamaha keyboards are very easy to sell.

I like Korg but love Yamaha.


Babette

[keynote]

Yamaha has specifications posted, features listed, and 100's of videos available for one to see, watch and hear.
I am tired of reading about the Genos should have this or that.
For me, everything I have read, watched, or listened to help me make my decision to buy a Genos.
I did not buy it on the chance that some things would be added to it.

Some of you that bought a Genos want more out of it than what is in the specifications.
That is like buying a car and have  expectations that it should have features or options that are not on the sticker.

Regards,
Gerard

Tell us how you really feel Gerard.   Opinions are nice and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some people on the forum have expressed a desire for future updates and I think that's a positive not a negative. To improve upon an already great keyboard is something to be hopeful about not frustrated about in my opinion. But of course to each his own. I like the Genos for what it is but I don't mind if Yamaha sees fit to add additional things that could potentially create even greater user satisfaction. But it is Yamaha's choice and decision whether or not to do so of course. If they don't provide anymore updates I am still happy but like almost everyone else I would greatly appreciate it if Yamaha provided additional updates to improve upon things that might still need improving, such as potential glitches and/or bugs that have been discussed previously and perhaps even feature enhancements that could prove useful to one and all. As far as the car analogy goes it's like comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. The Genos has the ability to update its software and that's all we're really asking. If we want something hardware related we'll have to wait for Genos 2.  Happy Holidays!

Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

As far as the car analogy goes it's like comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

Not quite, Mike. You would be shocked at how many transmission problems (and several other problems) are fixed by simple software updates. Cars these days are primarily computers on wheels just like the Genos is a computer with a sound engine and keys attached . Definitely apples to apples.

[Lloyd E]

Wow, what a lot of responses to my post.  As always we get both sides of the fence and that's good. Glad it was shared by many with some good opinions.  Thanks, Lloyd

[Bachus]

I suspect they're done because they're too busy being nicer to the Montage owners . There are a lot of good requests that seem to be easy for Yamaha to implement. Of course, I'm not a software developer and it may be more difficult than I think. They also may want to have us invest in Genos II to get those needed updates. That's how the marketing guys and bean counters operate.

The montage is done by a whole different team..
The montage team has done huge improvements over time..
The Genos team could learn a lot from the US based montage team..

Not just where updates are regarded..
But also how they atleast communicate openly with the users on an official yamahA SYNTH forum.
Yet 95% of all Genos owners does not seem to care, and so Yamaha europe does not feel any urge to follow the example of the US based team.

I for one love the support i find on the online yamaha synth forums for my modx. Where members of the synth content development team like badmister (phil) and blake openly communicate with the customers

[Lee Batchelor]

That's all true, Bachus. However, doesn't the ultimate decision for sending updates and fixes to the Genos owners lie with Yamaha Corp and not some country based development team? Won't the European guys ultimately do as they are told by Yamaha Corp? Same with the U.S. teams. They aren't going to spend thousands of Yamaha Corp dollars, (Yen, Euros, Beans...whatever) without approval. It's Yamaha Corp who must issue the orders to upgrade or fix things. I'd like to know if they are listening. I suggest not, since there's been no action for several months - unless they are true believers in Santa Claus .

[beykock]

Hi Lloyd,

If Yamaha are not uploading any new Genos updates, I am afraid there is no alternative than to wait for the Genos2.

Time will tell.

Babette

[Lee Batchelor]

I'm very happy with my Genos I, save for a few minor annoyances. As for:

If Yamaha are not uploading any new Genos updates, I am afraid there is no alternative than to wait for the Genos2.

Translation: for updates to your Genos I, you will need to fork out another $6,000.

[Seagull29]

Hi,
here is the answer of Yamaha Europe about a problem with use of User Voices and Personnal voices in styles. In fact, theffects are not included in modified voices when you use them in styles.

Hello Mr. S........,

I forward your eMail directly to our product management. Maybe there will be a change for the Genos. The Tyros 5 is actually out there.

Nevertheless, many thanks for your involvement in this matter.



Yours sincerely

Your Yamaha Service Team

Andreas Läu

What do you think about this answer ? Update or not Update, that is the question !

Regards
Seagull29

[Lee Batchelor]

Based on the language and grammar, I see this as probably the stupidest and unclear response I've read in years. It says nothing! Is it possible it was a decent response but the translation software ruined it??

[Bachus]

Based on the language and grammar, I see this as probably the stupidest and unclear response I've read in years. It says nothing! Is it possible it was a decent response but the translation software ruined it??

Its the German team..
On average many Germans English sadly is below average..
Which probably is what distracts you in the response..

[Bachus]

That's all true, Bachus. However, doesn't the ultimate decision for sending updates and fixes to the Genos owners lie with Yamaha Corp and not some country based development team? Won't the European guys ultimately do as they are told by Yamaha Corp? Same with the U.S. teams. They aren't going to spend thousands of Yamaha Corp dollars, (Yen, Euros, Beans...whatever) without approval. It's Yamaha Corp who must issue the orders to upgrade or fix things. I'd like to know if they are listening. I suggest not, since there's been no action for several months - unless they are true believers in Santa Claus .

I think the teams have a huge say in what changes and happens..
Because Yamaha works with these imternational teams, because they are meant to uphold the contacts with the customers to know what customers worldwide want..

Its obvious Montage is more aimed at the US market
Where Genos is more a european thing..

These teams are Yamaha's ears and eyes, and important part of the brain..

[Seagull29]

Based on the language and grammar, I see this as probably the stupidest and unclear response I've read in years. It says nothing! Is it possible it was a decent response but the translation software ruined it??

Hi,
Here is the explaination: I sent some mails to Yamaha about the problem I had with User Voices and built voices by YEM in Styles. After 2 or 3 mails, they seems to say that they have sent my last mail higher and they apparently don't know if it will be some update on Genos which will resolve this disadvantage. But for Tyros 5, it's apparently over, this model is out of list so, no new update.
At least they responded, not like in France where they direct you to an obscure demonstrator who will not know more ! And the answer come after a very long time ! In France, we said:" Botter en touche". It means that the problem is given to another who will have to get by with ! I'm not sure that it's a priority for Yamaha !

Regards

Seagull29

PS/ Sorry for using translator but my english is not enough good to translate directly from german to english ! 

[Lee Batchelor]

No worries, Seagull29. I understand your message. Thanks  .

[Lee Batchelor]

Its obvious Montage is more aimed at the US market. Where Genos is more a European thing..

Agreed, Bachus. That explains why our Montage players in Canada get there's almost the same day the Montage is released, whereas, our Genos players wait for ages to receive even a few into the country. I won't comment on how rude the Yamaha rep was with me on the phone when I simply asked what the delay was... .

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

"I won't comment on how rude the Yamaha rep was with me on the phone when I simply asked what the delay was... ."

Hi Lee,
is it not strange how things have changed.  I very much miss the time when I taught my salesmen our company rules.

Rule 1    The Customer is always right
Rule 2    In Case the Customer is Wrong rule 1 applies

The YAMAHA importer for Finland is the exception that proves the rule. During the painful 6 months we were sorting out the problems with my Genos  (thanks Lee for the help you gave me) they never claimed there were no problems. And  except a few minor ones they were solved. They exchanges my Genos. Which incidentally was your recommendation 

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Lee Batchelor]

Glad to have been of help, Kaarlo. I agree about the business attitude these days. Gone are the days when companies worked with clients. Today the attitude is, "We have your money, so put up with our substandard garbage."

Yamaha of course doesn't fall into that category at all. I've had very positive dealings with their head office. It's really only been the one rude person who I think should NOT work for Yamaha.

[Ingar]

It's been a very long time since YAMAHA has updated the Genos.  What should Yamaha release for updates?  Lloyd

I do not think there will be an update unless an error is detected, or something is not working properly.

Ingar

[EileenL]

Yes Ingar you are probably right as updates are to put faults right and not to add things that are not there to start with.

[Bachus]

Yes Ingar you are probably right as updates are to put faults right and not to add things that are not there to start with.

So you state that the Montage that gets continous updates all the time is still full of faults? And mus have been the worst product ever released with all those major updates and new features it got?

If there is another explanation for all those Montage updates over time, please tell me..

[Seagull29]

Hi,
In my opinion, the Genos does not sell as expected after some madness due to the expectation of this so-called revolutionary model at the beginning, so Yamaha may not be wanting to go further for the moment on this model. In any case, the Yamaha updates have never brought new features, at least on the keyboards arranger!

Regards
Seagull29

[Lee Batchelor]

Bachus makes an interesting point. Montage updates can't be all bug fixes. Yamaha is giving Montage users extra tools and features, I'm sure. I used to own a Motif ES7 and there were plenty of neat tools developed for it - all free of charge.

Yamaha still treats us arranger folks as a bunch of rank amateurs who play with a leisurely style, despite the fact it's a great keyboard and very stage worthy. If I were disappointed in anything with my Genos, it's the repetitive styles from the Tyros series. I was hoping for more uniqueness in this area - not just a bunch of re-worked styles that I have been using since my Tyros 2 days. Yes, the sound is better, but the styles haven't changed all that much. More emphasis has been placed on electronic and dance styles - something I could care less about. Time to start creating my own, but that's no easy task!!

[EileenL]

We are not talking about Montage which probably dose
not sell as well as Genos so is given little sweeteners and is an entirely different animal. I believe Genos has been the best selling keyboard so far and I don't know many people that have not changed there Tyros keyboards for it. It is great for gigging or just sitting at home playing.

[Paolo82]

Hello,
 
when is the update for genos with additional functions? In my genos I miss: more memory for expansion pack and creator song, full edition of drums in midi-song, such edition is in korgu pa4x, yamaha, why is there no such edition? can we count on more memory for expansion pack as well as edits of the drums?