New Realtime arranger software announcement

[Henni]

Henni
I don't disagree that the styles may be better, although mostly they just sound busier to me. The point is how many people will actually care, because the styles on the Yamaha keyboards are already pretty good.
You are obviously enthusiastic - but will decent numbers of arranger players be enthusiastic enough to invest, or live with the inconvenience of having to use a plugged in computer to control the keyboard?
Time will tell.
Mike

Mike,

I do not have THAT many purchasing styles from me. But then there are more than one purchasing EVERYTHING I can create & pressing me for more. One Genos owner said my styles are better that those you can buy from Yamaha (not my words, HIS) I must be doing something right then. Groovyband Live! is part of that something and will continue to be so.

I doubt Groovyband Live! will be flooded by sales all of a sudden as a result , but they WILL get more users as I am not close minded - I like to share & highlight the good things I find.

This software is OUTSTANDING!!! for a PSR user. Maybe a Genos user will not be so overly impressed, I really cannot say. But then they could afford a Genos - many cannot.

When we start performing live again, I'll make a few videos as I will not perform live again without this software in future. I am letting my Audya go if I find a buyer for it - I have found it's match in the combination of the GHENOS pack, Groovyband Live! and my PSR S770.

In any case, these SUPER talented folks received undeserved flak over here. Their software is professional, well thought out and user friendly. And it pushes my creativity once again to the next level. And it pushes my PSR S770 to new boundaries that could not be achieved before.

Remember, they discovered and developed a way to push the S770 sound level on an almost equal basis with the SX900 & Genos without a hardware change. How many can boast of same? Give them the credit they deserve.

Henni

[Henni]

I am only interested in styles that I can use on my keyboard, but others may see this as a great program. Each to their own.

GREAT!!! As far as I remember you use a Genos - so you are the person in the Bentley. I am one of those in the VW Golf - our points of view definitely differs as a direct result.

[Henni]

Let's recap a bit, shall we?

1. The Yamaha styles are 90% about effects. Don't believe me? Go listen again to the effects demo on your very own arranger where Yamaha themselves demonstrate this clearly & even bragging about it.

2. The PSR up to S975 is limited to the type and number of effects that can be used by it's internal style engine. So apart from the new voices, this is why the SX900 & Genos sound so much better.

3. Groovyband Live! developed a way to replace the style engine totally with software. The results are then driven through midi to the PSR which allows many more effects to be used.

4. They perfected this along with a intuitive interface which allows advance editing not previously possible.

5. They seamlessly apply the next OTS settings allowing the current settings to first play out in full.

6. They included 8 variations, 8 fills to & from, two breaks and 8 OTS's which follow the correct variation exactly as per Yamaha.

7. They included the registration function exactly as Yamaha.

8. They move the split point continuously to just above the chords you play giving your more room for your solo performances.

9. They allow 3 RH voices plus 1 LH voice, same as the Genos/SX900 about which everyone made such a hoo haa about. But now that Groovyband Live! did same on a S770!!!, it's nothing? REALLY?

10. The velocity of played notes can be randomized to varying degrees of "humanization"

11. Same Beat Reset function as per the newer Yamaha's.

12. Half bar fills.

13. Round Robin drums like the Genos adding humanization to the drums too.

14. Every L/R voice can have its own independent harmony settings. All the L/R voices can be configured as R (R1÷4). You can therefore build quartets of different instruments, each one playing possibly different harmonized notes.

There are more, I am still finding them. So how can ANYONE state that all they do is provide more of the same! Honestly, if you do I seriously suspect you do not grasp the relevance of the above - for whatever reason. I will not insult you by stating the blatantly  obvious...

[Toril S]

I love your enthusiasm Henni! I do have a Genos, but you do more wonders with your PSR than I can ever do on Genos! So tell us more!😀

[rikkisbears]

Please note that I've only just started with creating new styles for Groovyband Live! I am on a steep learning curve. Another thing that I guarantee is that the demos I post over here will keep on getting better as time progress and as I become more fluent in using this software.

Cheers,

Henni

Hi Henni,
I'm a bit confused, I thought one could only use the styles that existed in Groovyband?

Sorry, I should check out the manual myself,  but currently tied up with getting stuff ready for Xmas and can't afford the time at the moment to work my way thru a manual.

Btw. your demos sound great.

[Henni]

Hi Rikki,

Yes, I have 860 styles to work with. My new styles comprise of the original ones that are highly modified. The editing capabilities of this software is hard to grasp.

Plus I've now added Revo drums plus human choir voices to it, as many as could fit into the 158MB limited memory of my PSR S770 - which is good as this model is the very minimum that this software was developed for save the S950 to some extend also.

If you have the demo for my style, first look at the style name of my demo when listening to it. Next go play the original same style on your Groovyband Live! demo version & compare.

If you are not impressed with the changes (the developers are), please come back & inform me.

Henni

Please forgive me for bringing up the quote below - I'm trying to make a point. I am taking a GREAT idea and making it even greater in my own limited way.

...Your 70sScatLegend and ChoirSoundtrack customised styles are absolutely amazing and breath taking... We are really impressed...We can not even imagine what you will achieve as soon as you become more fluent with the software...With much respect...

Groovyband Live! Team

[Henni]

GROOVYBAND LIVE! IS ANOTHER MODULE LIKE I.E. A SD40/90
...that can only play with a Yamaha arranger.

YOUR TABLET OF CHOICE NOW TAKES THE FULL PLACE OF THE MODULE

THE YAMAHA OUTPUTS STILL DRIVE THE AMPS

IF YOU CAN USE A MODULE LIVE, THEN YOU CAN USE GROOVYBAND LIVE!


No ordinary Yamaha or Roland or Korg styles will play on it. Same as with any other module. Why one might consider using it:


Compared to i.e. a PSR S770

1. MANY more effects
2. 4 lead voices each harmonizeble individually to a different harmony type simultaneously
3. 8 variations
4. 8 fills
5. 8 OTS's
6. 2 breaks
7. Round robin drums like on the Genos
8. Humanized played lead notes (similar to round robin drums but applied to what you play with the lead voices) that includes i.e. decent guitar strumming
9. Style immediate reset
10. Half bar fills
11. Extremely advanced editing capability
12. Intelligent transpose splitpoint that follows where you play your chords and lowers/raises the splitpoint accordingly
13. Also uses registrations
14. You can bind any Yamaha or any other midi transmittable outputs to soft inputs
15. Store pre-setup effects in memory to use in any other place
16. Instantly select a part from another track to play in current variation whilst playing live
17. ONLY connection to Yamaha single USB cable
18. Touchscreen that can also facilitate a mouse
19. Current OTS plays out in FULL in the background whilst new OTS kicks in
20. This is the only place I will update demos of what I am personally able to achieve with it as a user.
21. Pitch or octave shift ANY accompany part even on the fly - listen to the choir voices in my demos

...To name but a few of the improvements over the standard older Yamaha's. The list above are only the ones that I've discovered and can understand. The manual states many more that are currently beyond my grasp or direct needs.

And because it's software driven, the sky is the limit to whatever they choose to ad to it in future WITHOUT you having to change your arranger every time. And there is the user memory on the arranger itself for any newer voices that might be required as an later upgrade (I will not be surprised should they pursue this route in future). Heck, I've already added voices from the GHENOS pack to it & I'm only a novice...

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[Henni]

List of BINDABLE midi commands

SEQ SS – Sequencer Start/Stop
SSTART – Syncro Start on/off
SSTOP – Syncro Stop on/off
HOLD CHORD – Hold Chord on/off (if on accompaniment plays even with raised left hand)
BASS INV – Bass Inversion on/off
HOLD LEFT – Hold Left Voice(s) on/off
INV RIGHT – Invert Right Voices
OCT UP – Transpose Octave Up for Lead and Aux Voices
OCT DOWN – Transpose Octave Down for Lead and Aux Voices
FADE – Fade on/off
TEMPO HOLD – Tempo Hold on/off
TEMPO LOCK – Tempo Lock on/off
INC TEMPO – Increment tempo bpm
DEC TEMPO – Decrement tempo bpm
TRANSP UP – Transpose one semitone up
TRANSP DOWN – Transpose one semitone down
ACMP LEAD BAL – Balance volume between acmp and lead voices
LEAD PEDWAH – Controller for pedal wah in lead parts
AUX PEDWAH – Controller for pedal wah in aux parts
VAR PEDWAH – Controller for pedal wah in var system bus
LEAD ROTSW – Controller for rotary slow/fast switch in lead parts
AUX ROTSW – Controller for rotary slow/fast switch in aux parts
VAR ROTSW – Controller for rotary slow/fast switch in var system bus
MAIN[1÷8] – Select Main Section (i.e: MAIN3)
FILL[1÷8] – Select Fill
FILL CUR – Select Fill into current Main section
FILL PREV – Select Fill into previous Main section
FILL NEXT – Select Fill into next Main section
BREAK[1÷2] – Select Break
INTRO[1÷3] – Select Intro
ENDING[1÷3] – Select Ending
OTS[1÷8] – Select OTS
OTS LINK – Ots Link on/off (if on, when switching Main Section the linked Ots is selected as well)
OTS LINK MODE – toggles between Ots Link Modes (immediate or delayed to measure start)
APG[1÷8] – Select APG
BEAT RESET – Activate the beat reset

In the following commands [part] can be: DR | PC | BS | CH1 | CH2 | PAD | PH1 | PH2 | A1 | A2 | A3| A4 | L1 | R1 | R2 | R3

VOL [part] – Volume (i.e.: VOL DR)
BAL [part] – Balance
PAN [part] – Pan
SND2REV [part] – Send to Reverb system effect
SND2CHO [part] – Send to Chorus system effect
SND2VAR [part] – Send to Variation system effect
DRY [part] – Dry level
SWITCH [part] – Switch on/off the part in the APG
ENABLE [part] – Enable on/off
MUTE DSP [part] – Mute insert dsp on/off
MUTE STRIP [part] – Mute strip on/off
SOLO STRIP [part] – Solo strip on/off

[Henni]

a Tip for those performing for the seniors:

1. The free demo version will do you just fine. You have 10 minutes at a time. The program opens and closes almost immediately.

2. It immediately re-connects with your Yamaha without you doing anything!

3. Play one song. Quickly close and open program. Select next style and you have close to another 10 minutes for your next performance.

Silly? Not if you cannot or will not dish out the funds for a full fledged version.

[Darius]

@Henni
I am glad to read your excitement about the Groovyband Live! software. I personally also appreciate to see a software developper investing in styles of higher quality. But the title in red colour "GROOVYBAND LIVE! IS ANOTHER MODULE LIKE I.E. A SD40/90... that can only play with a Yamaha arranger" is not correct. Ketron modules are not only style players but also style recorders, voice romplers and audio mixers, just like medium and high-end Yamaha keyboards, simply without keybed.
Darius

[Tyros5Mad]

Every piece of software has folks that love it and folks that don't love it.

I am firmly in the camp of the ones who say that if the styles cannot be loaded into the keyboard and require extra hardware of software to use then that is a problem. Consider the player who does gigs with their keyboard. If they use this Groovy software or Band in a Box or One Man Band or some other software that has its own styles then they have to carry around extra equipment to their gigs.

I made some software that creates backing tracks for Yamaha arrangers.  I was careful to ensure that the backing tracks could be expanded into Yamaha songs that can be loaded into the keyboard and used for gigs.

I am not critical of the software, in fact just the opposite but I think there is limited value to the thousands of Yamaha arranger players out there in music land.

Just saying.
RL

[Henni]

It is a FULL FLEDGED MODULE using a touch interface and the Yamaha sound engine

Groovyband Live! cannot be classified under the soft synths. It is also definitely not a supplier of new styles.

In my opinion at least, the sole purpose for really using Groovyband Live! is to make an older PSR sound MUCH more in line with a SX900 or even a Genos using the much older Yamaha style engine. (The developers might disagree on this as they have full access to the latest Yamaha models)

1. Because I have a PSR S770 only
2. Because I would love a SX900/Genos
3. Because I could NOT! afford the upgrade
4. I've found in Groovyband Live! the total solution to my personal scenario

It does not have to compare with i.e. Ketron modules. It was designed to upgrade the  Yamaha style engine & as far as that goes I find it to be in a class of it's own with no competition whatsoever.

To prove any statements to the contrary, please substantiate by re-producing this:

Demo01
Demo02
Demo03
Demo04
Demo05
Demo06

on another PSR S770 and post the demos here so that the rest of us can also be enlightened. (These were made by me, a mere user, applying what this software can do best)

GBL pushed the envelope more on my PSR S770 than anything else could thus far. As a direct result of using it, I no longer feel so left behind because I could not have the very latest Yamaha.

It also ads many more effects to the SX900 & Genos - however because I am unable to link to those, I have no idea how the results sound and one thing I never do is speculate on things I cannot demonstrate or substantiate personally.

Ever cared enough to peak below the stage of famous rock bands, using mostly guitars only? I did and it looks more like Google's servers than anything else I've seen. You'd be AMAZED!!! by what you'd find my friends.

Do you think John Denver would have approved? We are all operating in different environments and our needs and desires varies.

And here we are down playing a single tablet only lying flat on ones arranger when it makes such a difference to whatever is coming out of the audio jacks of the arranger it is resting upon...

Playing live with GBL:

1. You use whatever you've prepared using GBL registrations.
2. At ANY given time, go to midi settings & push one button only!
3. Now continue playing your PSR as always in "normal" mode.
4. At ANY given time, go to midi settings & push one button only!
5. Continue with where you've left of with GBL.

This way GBL does not replace your Yamaha but rather compliments it.

Here in South Africa many opt to have the Lexus V8 engine installed in all sort of vehicles, both new & old. I had one installed myself in a Ssangyong Musso and absolutely loved the outcome.

GBL did the exact same for my Yamaha.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Waste of money for the price
Better off with Cubase!! and Midisoft Yamaha and Stylemagic.
I am also still mad at EMCStyleworks that used to work good and now is completely useless.
Nothing from Klaus and over £199 a total rip off.
All updates have made the program worse and it does not run in line with Windows 10 and the Genos. Glitchy.
Midisoft is the only reliable program out there for Win 10.

[Henni]

Waste of money for the price
Better off with Cubase!! and Midisoft Yamaha and Stylemagic...

Dear Lord, here we go again... It's almost like the metoo movement...

in any case, let's try to put some logic to your statements:

1. Not a single program you've mentioned is in the same category - so just what's your point?

2. It's like you discussing Windows 10 in reply to me discussing how to bake pancakes...

3. I have personally run more than half a million (yes, you've read correct) styles through Klaus' program. I have only VERY good things to say about it - nothing is perfect!

4. Bashing is cheap - backing you bashing with sound demos is worth more.

5. GBL changes things on the fly whilst you are performing - not a SINGLE program you mentioned does that as I personally use most of them all the time so I know...

6. By the way, everything you mention works flawlessly with Windows 10.

[EileenL]

Hi Henni,
  I have listened to some demo's and read a lot on this programme but surely a style is only part of producing a performance for an audience to listen to. What about the sounds of the melody you are going to play with the style which to most players would be the most important part. Many very good players will tell you they often find some styles far to busy and mute style parts so as not to drown out there right hand playing. Do you also need to enhance the instrumental voices you are going to use so that you get an even balance across the board.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Styles though Klaus program. No, Midi to styles i mean. I know how to do it. takes a little time but used to work great on Tyros 5.
I wrote to Klaus a month ago about exceptions etc and still no update or i will look into it. It does not work like it did. No help either. This program needs more updating for the Genos. Klaus is a computer business man and will only spend time to amend Styleworks when he has nothing on that is important.
Nice enough man ,but no action yet.
I can do all things on the fly with the Genos, so it is a matter of your choice to buy Groovyband.
Midisoft Stylemagic and midi Magic is flawless, but a little more involved. EMC has gone off the boil.
I expect more for £200 and i will bash at that price.
Cubase which is a deep and complicated program works flawlessly for me as does Sampletank 4  and all cpu eating programs.
Ok , you must play live and i make music in my home studio, but i still play songs all the way through and minor edit.
from January 1st i also will multitrack my own music.

Well I find the Genos does all on the fly with a little organising and then again it is personal taste and i was only giving my opinion.

All the best
john

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Henni,
  I have listened to some demo's and read a lot on this programme but surely a style is only part of producing a performance for an audience to listen to. What about the sounds of the melody you are going to play with the style which to most players would be the most important part. Many very good players will tell you they often find some styles far to busy and mute style parts so as not to drown out there right hand playing. Do you also need to enhance the instrumental voices you are going to use so that you get an even balance across the board.

100%

[Bill]

Hi Henni

You are obviously a enthusiastic customer of GBL  however have you spent $499 to purchase the program.   
It is no doubt an expansive piece of software no matter how good it is.

Bill

[RoyB]

Hello Henni

Well, I for one found your live performance demo recording to be very impressive. The product really seems to have won you over. I have been looking at GroovybandLive! for some time now, and downloaded the demo several months ago; I have studied the manual but at the moment I haven't actually given the demo a try, but I hope to be able to give it a try soon. My impression is that GroovybandLive! is an interesting and impressive piece of work but, at its current state of development, I think it is probably going to have limited appeal. Direct comparisons with other software apps I think is futile as it is apparent that GBLive! has a unique development purpose.

It's true that there has been quite a lot of negative reaction to the product on this forum. Some object as they feel the developers are using the forum for free advertising and promotion. Others have tended to dismiss the product on the basis that it cannot use Yamaha styles and instead has its own (necessary) proprietary style engine. On the latter, I think this objection could be somewhat mitigated if GBLive! could include a utility to convert SFF2 styles to GBLive! format which could then be edited within GBLive!. But I don't think individuals should criticise and dismiss the product just because it may not be something that is useful for them.

I appreciate that GBLive! are offering a functioning demo software that anyone can try, and this is a great way to trial the product before deciding to buy. But nothing can really replace actually hearing or seeing the product being used by users like yourself to generate interest - and at the moment, as far as I have found, you are only person to have a posted a recording using the product (and no videos by anyone as yet). 

GBLive! is a new product and still in its infancy. Whilst I think it is an impressive piece of work as it stands, the really interesting thing about it for me is what it could potentially be developed into with time, assuming the company is successful enough to be able to continue development of this for years to come. The product currently requires a compatible Yamaha PSR/Tyros3+/Genos arranger as a sound source. However, they do say on their web site that "other devices might work as well, possibly with reduced functionality" - when I get round to trying their demo software I might experiment with this and see what happens when I use it with something else. They do say they intend to develop the product for use with sound sources other than Yamaha arrangers - this will be really interesting, and if this would also include non-arranger workstations as the sound source, then I think this would be a real game-changer and open up the market for the product.

As I said, I hope to give the demo software a try soon and experiment with it.  I am open-minded about it, but, at this time I'm not sure that I have a genuine need for the product and I don't feel I would make use of it. I'm also not keen on the license protection scheme being used which I think is pretty mean these days (PC based, single machine only). Personally, I would prefer if it was USB stick based, allowing the flexibility of using a specific USB stick on different PCs. Even better if it could be a dual-system - recognising either a specific USB stick or a specific keyboard/sound-source (so that it could be used on a specific keyboard without a USB dongle, or used with different keyboards with a PC+USB dongle).

I have other equipment hooked up to my Tyros via MIDI and I also like to do a lot of midi recording. GBLive! requires a specific MIDI configuration, and as far I can see this would conflict with the MIDI requirements of my other equipment and the MIDI recorder/sequencer. (The manual does illustrate how multi-equipment setups can be hooked up with GBLive! but doesn't go into any detail as to how it works in practice)

I also have a couple of specific questions which maybe Henni or GroovybandLive! can answer:-

(i) Can GBLive! utilise expansion voices? If I understand it correctly, the guys at GBLive! had to generate a specific program modification for you to use your GHENOS expansion voices. I think it would be a real limitation (at least for me) if expansion voices cannot be accessed as standard.

(ii) As far as I can see, neither the website nor the manual makes any mention of multi-pads (correct me if I'm wrong on that). Can multi-pads be used with GBLive!? (I guess the response may be that, because of the advanced features of the style engine, multi-pads aren't needed, but I would not find this argument particularly helpful).


Regards

Roy

[beykock]

I have listened several times to Henni's demo's and I love the sound quality.
I am absolutely impressed by the quality.

Cheers, Babette

[Henni]

Hi Henni,
  I have listened to some demo's and read a lot on this programme but surely a style is only part of producing a performance for an audience to listen to. What about the sounds of the melody you are going to play with the style which to most players would be the most important part. Many very good players will tell you they often find some styles far to busy and mute style parts so as not to drown out there right hand playing. Do you also need to enhance the instrumental voices you are going to use so that you get an even balance across the board.

Hi Eileen,

Apart from these GBL demos:

Live01

Live02

Live03

Live04

Live05


I do not demo styles with lead voices. a Good demonstrator could achieve many things with a style that I could NEVER replicate as I am not that good.

Please take some time to quickly read this:

Voices01

Voices02

Voices03

And YES! It is much easier to mute things on the fly than direct on the Yamaha. You can even, whilst performing live, on the fly select any style part in any variation to rather play a style part from another variation - single button selection only required.

Henni

[Henni]

Hi Henni

You are obviously a enthusiastic customer of GBL  however have you spent $499 to purchase the program.   
It is no doubt an expansive piece of software no matter how good it is.

Bill

Bill,

Never said it was cheap. I did state however that it was much less than a new SX900 or Genos.

Henni

[Henni]

(i) Can GBLive! utilise expansion voices? If I understand it correctly, the guys at GBLive! had to generate a specific program modification for you to use your GHENOS expansion voices. I think it would be a real limitation (at least for me) if expansion voices cannot be accessed as standard.

(ii) As far as I can see, neither the website nor the manual makes any mention of multi-pads (correct me if I'm wrong on that). Can multi-pads be used with GBLive!? (I guess the response may be that, because of the advanced features of the style engine, multi-pads aren't needed, but I would not find this argument particularly helpful).

Hi Roy,

(i) I'm sure it could - however they would need to ad names to your voice numbers for you. I do not see how they could include this as standard - but who knows...

(ii) No Multipads or support for it on my version - I seriously doubt if you'll get this from the program.

The above to the best of my knowledge to date. Maybe the developers will respond in more detail.

Regards,

Henni

[Henni]

I can do all things on the fly with the Genos, so it is a matter of your choice to buy Groovyband.

Hi John,

I do not have a Genos & as things stands now won't have one. Thus GBL is the ideal solution for me.

Cheers,

Henni

[Henni]

I have listened several times to Henni's demo's and I love the sound quality.
I am absolutely impressed by the quality.

Cheers, Babette

Tx Babette!

[Henni]

Hi Eileen,

I made a full live recording for you using a stock standard GBL style:

In moments

Henni

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Henni
I will put up Going Loco Down in Acapulco later and i played it through and did a little clean up.
I find it quite easy to manipulate the Genos after Tyros 4 and 5.
I have got to get human again as i am just recovering from Jet lag from holiday--Long story!!.
If all is good with Psr and Groovyband then all is 100%.
I practice a song over and over until i can do a take and then work on it.
I hate the red button!!

All the best
john

[Toril S]

The red button is a glowing devil. I practice, play the song many times without a mistake. Then I turn on the red button, and BANG!  the first note I play is wrong. Or even worse, the last one!

[rikkisbears]

The red button is a glowing devil. I practice, play the song many times without a mistake. Then I turn on the red button, and BANG!  the first note I play is wrong. Or even worse, the last one!

Me too,

[Tyros5Mad]

LOL! No one is immune from the red button blues 

When I used to record songs live, I had to accept there would be little mistakes in the recording.  The modern arranger has so many buttons, sliders and knobs to work with that it is impossible to do it all live without making mistakes. Then I realized why there are recording studios. It is to reduce or eliminate mistakes.

So now I create backing tracks first with my Midi Maker software and then I know that the chords/style will play correctly. I add the extra parts bit by bit and then add the vocals. The result is a better quality recording with much less mistakes. If I play a live gig, I still use the backing tracks. It allows me play the full keyboard while the backing track is playing and also allows me to do full on Karaoke songs.

Sorry to go a bit off topic.
Richard