Chord Circle (Circle of 5ths / Circle of 4ths) - looking to buy

[Rumney]

I am trying to source and purchase a 'Chord Circle' device - one that I can hold and rotate as required and that will last. I have found ones that you printout and cobble together yourself and others that form part of a book cover but I want a purpose made stand alone device that is both comprehensive, accurate and robust.
Any ideas?

[John Plumridge]

Hi Rumney,
                      The poor mans DIY option, refer to    http://jimsrootsandblues.com/circle-of-fifths-calculator/
Hopefully this will save you going round in circles

Regards
                John

[Duurduur]

  Very nice but not possible to download PDF on that site!

[Gunnar Jonny]

....... Any ideas?

We're living in a electronioc timeage, so what about an app for your mobilephone?
https://ultimate-circle-of-fifths.com/

[DaveD]

Have a look at "The chord wheel" by Hal Leonard. Should be available on Amazon.

DaveD

[Rumney]

Thanks for the suggestions guys - but none quite meet my needs.

I am trying to stay away from the 'poor mans' self assemble types as I feel that they will be very fragile and not last long. Yes, I could just make another one but I am looking for a more permanent solution.

As for Jim Flesers excellent book 'The Chord Wheel' (Amazon, Hal Leonard etc) - it has a wheel built into the outer cover but purchaser feedback is that the wheel is quite fragile and probably won't last long. It's a pity really.
Message to Jim - great idea but please produce a robust removable wheel to accompany your book - the purchase price will undoubtedly rise but I think it would be well received

I have seen the software 'App' wheels but these will need to be installed on and accessed from my mobile phone or tablet. Again, not quite what I am looking for.

I am looking for a robust physical wheel (similar to the old Matematics wheels within wheels protractors that we used to use in school) which were hard plastic and lasted for years. I would like a chord wheel of similar construction that I can leave in my music room and simply grab and use as needed.

Anyone know if such a device exists and if so where one might be sourced?

[mikf]

Rumney - I would be interested to know why you think you need such a device. The visual circle of chord relationships is one of those things that is interesting, but I have never met a musician that actually used one, because its very basic. A fifth is two notes 3 1/2 tones apart - C-G, D- A ....etc, a fourth is just two notes 2/1/2 tones apart C-F, D-G ....etc and the relative manor is always 1 1/2 tones below the key root - C-Amin, Eb - C min.... etc. The circle of fifths is a neat visual representation of all these relationships, but IMHO, other than that its just not all that useful.
Mike

[Rumney]

Mike - as my signature says 'New to keyboards - Genos user (retirement treat) - Complete novice but keen to improve'.

I'm keen to broaden my very limited knowledge and have been watching numerous YouTube videos in an effort to do so. One such video (series) is by an American teacher called Karen Ramirez who specialises in playing by ear rather than, as she puts it, playing by note. She shows the Chord Wheel in use and, as an absolute newbie I found her approach and methods very interesting.

I appreciate that there are other and better 'theory' aids (not least lessons together with practice, practice, practice) but I was very impressed by her method and ease of understanding. I also like the way that the chord wheel clearly identifies chords that form simple groups that sit comfortably together - something that a newbie like myself didn't appreciate previously.

As you say the circle of fifths is a simple and neat visual representation of all these relationships - it's just something that I am looking to add to my learning toolbox.

[mikf]

Rumney, - Learning to play by ear was my guess from your question.
Without putting down the lady on the video, I have played and known hundreds of real musicians who played professionally by ear and while all understood the circle of 5ths, to my knowledge none used it or thought about it either actively while playing or while learning to play, by ear.
If you want to learn to play by ear, it will be much more useful to understand common chord progressions by the number system, which is key independent. The number system is simple, just each chord based on the note of the scale - so in C, chord 1 is Cmaj, chord 2 is D minor, etc. Look up chord numbering systems on the net, but don't at this time get too deeply into the more sophisticated versions like the Nashville numbering system where many accents and variants can be added for more advanced players.
So the simplest chord progression using the number system is 1;4; 5;1. Chord 2 and 4 are similar, so another variant is 1;2;5;1. Another very common variant is 1;6;2;5;1. ie in key of C it would be C, Amin, Dmin, G7, C.
Those three chord progressions above cover 80 % of the popular songs written for at least 80% - and often 100% -of the whole song. Start by nailing these, and then add songs which have small excursions from these like chord 3, or making chord 2 or chord 3 major instead of minor. You will soon get to hear them coming by ear.
Don't worry about the relationships on a circle of 5ths. The secret to playing by ear is to start with a small amount of knowledge like the 3 chord progressions I have given above, then build on it by experimenting, a bit at a time. As you advance, you might find the circle of 5ths useful to understand for more complex songs, but frankly, by the time you find it useful, you are unlikely to really need visual aid, because the relationships will just make it will just make obvious.
Later, learn and introduce diminished chords by realizing another common device is to slip in a diminished to lead through or add color to one of the above progressions. Try to find the right chords by are, then look at fake books to see how what you thought compares with the right chords, and how real songs progress,. And instead of seeing the chords as individual things in a song, learn to see them as sequences of numbers, and you will then start to understand how most music is 90% repeating patterns. Combining this with listening to yourself and anticipating the sound of a chord in a sequence is what playing by ear is all about.

Mike 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

Get Cubase


all the best
john

[mikf]

Not sure how Cubase could help someone learn to play by ear?? Maybe I misunderstand what it does. 
Mike

[ticktock]

Rumney, - Learning to play by ear was my guess from your question.
Without putting down the lady on the video, I have played and known hundreds of real musicians who played professionally by ear and while all understood the circle of 5ths, to my knowledge none used it or thought about it either actively while playing or while learning to play, by ear.
If you want to learn to play by ear, it will be much more useful to understand common chord progressions by the number system, which is key independent. The number system is simple, just each chord based on the note of the scale - so in C, chord 1 is Cmaj, chord 2 is D minor, etc. Look up chord numbering systems on the net, but don't at this time get too deeply into the more sophisticated versions like the Nashville numbering system where many accents and variants can be added for more advanced players.
So the simplest chord progression using the number system is 1;4; 5;1. Chord 2 and 4 are similar, so another variant is 1;2;5;1. Another very common variant is 1;6;2;5;1. ie in key of C it would be C, Amin, Dmin, G7, C.
Those three chord progressions above cover 80 % of the popular songs written for at least 80% - and often 100% -of the whole song. Start by nailing these, and then add songs which have small excursions from these like chord 3, or making chord 2 or chord 3 major instead of minor. You will soon get to hear them coming by ear.
Don't worry about the relationships on a circle of 5ths. The secret to playing by ear is to start with a small amount of knowledge like the 3 chord progressions I have given above, then build on it by experimenting, a bit at a time. As you advance, you might find the circle of 5ths useful to understand for more complex songs, but frankly, by the time you find it useful, you are unlikely to really need visual aid, because the relationships will just make it will just make obvious.
Later, learn and introduce diminished chords by realizing another common device is to slip in a diminished to lead through or add color to one of the above progressions. Try to find the right chords by are, then look at fake books to see how what you thought compares with the right chords, and how real songs progress,. And instead of seeing the chords as individual things in a song, learn to see them as sequences of numbers, and you will then start to understand how most music is 90% repeating patterns. Combining this with listening to yourself and anticipating the sound of a chord in a sequence is what playing by ear is all about.

Mike

Perfect answer. Playing by ear needs time. Keep listening and playing then someday you will notice that you are playing the circle of fifth, and more...
Ted

[Rumney]

Rumney, - Learning to play by ear was my guess from your question.
Without putting down the lady on the video, I have played and known hundreds of real musicians who played professionally by ear and while all understood the circle of 5ths, to my knowledge none used it or thought about it either actively while playing or while learning to play, by ear.
If you want to learn to play by ear, it will be much more useful to understand common chord progressions by the number system, which is key independent. The number system is simple, just each chord based on the note of the scale - so in C, chord 1 is Cmaj, chord 2 is D minor, etc. Look up chord numbering systems on the net, but don't at this time get too deeply into the more sophisticated versions like the Nashville numbering system where many accents and variants can be added for more advanced players.
So the simplest chord progression using the number system is 1;4; 5;1. Chord 2 and 4 are similar, so another variant is 1;2;5;1. Another very common variant is 1;6;2;5;1. ie in key of C it would be C, Amin, Dmin, G7, C.
Those three chord progressions above cover 80 % of the popular songs written for at least 80% - and often 100% -of the whole song. Start by nailing these, and then add songs which have small excursions from these like chord 3, or making chord 2 or chord 3 major instead of minor. You will soon get to hear them coming by ear.
Don't worry about the relationships on a circle of 5ths. The secret to playing by ear is to start with a small amount of knowledge like the 3 chord progressions I have given above, then build on it by experimenting, a bit at a time. As you advance, you might find the circle of 5ths useful to understand for more complex songs, but frankly, by the time you find it useful, you are unlikely to really need visual aid, because the relationships will just make it will just make obvious.
Later, learn and introduce diminished chords by realizing another common device is to slip in a diminished to lead through or add color to one of the above progressions. Try to find the right chords by are, then look at fake books to see how what you thought compares with the right chords, and how real songs progress,. And instead of seeing the chords as individual things in a song, learn to see them as sequences of numbers, and you will then start to understand how most music is 90% repeating patterns. Combining this with listening to yourself and anticipating the sound of a chord in a sequence is what playing by ear is all about.

Mike

Thank you Mike - a well reasoned reply which I really appreciate. Now I understand why a song is counted in 1 2 3 - it's a chord progression (only joking) I will have a good look at the chord numbering systems on the net - thanks again.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Cubase great for learning and has a Circle of 5ths and all the other compatible chords. Using chord assistant you can try loads of combinations before settling on want you want.

Look at this--     https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artist/v9/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/chord_functions/chord_functions_chord_assistant_fifths_c.html

You can also get into using the Genos with VST instruments and learn how to multi-track and a bucket load of other things.
Sky's the limit.

All the best
john

[Rick D.]

I use the Ultimate Circle of Fifths App like Gunner mentioned above. It's a great app.

Rick D.

[Rumney]

OK - I've entered the 21st century and downloaded the Ultimate Circle of Fifths App by Christian Hengst.

I must say that it seems very good and gives me verything that I was looking for from a physical wheel plus a great deal more - great value for £2.99. I just have to remember to keep my iPad readily available whilst I am at my Genos.

Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions and advice.