V-Console for Genos user first impression review

[zionip]

I have been reading about V-Console software on a couple of arranger forums for quite a while.  V-Console version 2.1.4 now supports Genos
V-Console for Genos software runs on a Windows tablet/laptop/PC, combines and controls Genos, a second keyboard with USB/MIDI connection, and a MIDI foot pedal (usually with MIDI connections only) like an integrated organ, with all sounds coming from Genos.  This software helps to utilize the full potentials of Genos sounds and styles.  After investigating the functionality of this software, I purchased the software only version at £399, or US$546.20.

I use Yamaha Genos as the upper keyboard (USB connected to Windows 10 laptop), 88-key hammer action Casio Privia PX560 as the lower keyboard (USB connected to Windows 10 laptop), and Roland PK5 13-note MIDI pedal as the bass pedal (connected through MIDI cables to irig 2 USB MIDI interface).  I tried using Genos as the lower keyboard, and another keyboard as the upper one, but this combo does not work as good.  V-Console is working at its best with Genos as the upper keyboard.

I place a 21.5-inch Dell S2240T touchscreen monitor on a standalone music stand at the back of Genos for V-Console display and control:  

For some reason, the V-Console software does not like USB MIDI interfaces with multiple MIDI connections.  My midiplus 8x8 (8 MIDI ins, 8 MIDI outs) did not work with V-Console program, and so I had to replace it with irig 2 MIDI interface (1 MIDI in, 1 MIDI out, 1 MIDI thru), which works well with V-Console.

My experience with V-Console on the lower keyboard is that V-Console works more reliably with USB connections.  I tried a couple of older keyboards with 5-pin MIDI ports only but they did not work well with V-Console.  This is why I now use the Casio PX560 due to its USB connection.

The V-Console talks to Genos through USB2 MIDI channel 8, the default MIDI channel for lower keyboard is channel 1, and the MIDI channel for MIDI pedal is channel 3.  The MIDI channels for the Genos, the lower keyboard, and the MIDI pedal have to be different even they are connected through different USB / MIDI interfaces.  The Roland PK5 pedal should be at Poly mode in order to work with V-Console.

Since my Lenovo Yoga 720 15.6-inch 2-in-1 laptop has only 2 USB 3.0 ports, I had to use a 7-port USB 3.0 hub for V-Console connections, touchscreen USB connection, and some USB 3.0 flash drives.  I found that some USB 3.0 hubs have timing and stuck MIDI notes issues.  I am currently using an Anker 7-port USB 3.0 hub which has shown very good timing and no stuck MIDI note issues with V-Console.  I use a HooToo USB-C hub with HDMI out to support the display to the Dell S2240T monitor since the laptop does not have HDMI output.

V-Console for Genos not only converts Genos, the lower keyboard, and the MIDI pedal into an organ, it also enhances music contents by providing many more voices on the lower keyboard, which makes playing much more versatile and flexible, with much richer tones, up to eight different voices stacked together per keyboard/pedal.  V-Console comes with 16 banks of registrations (each bank contains 10 registrations, each registration contains settings for one particular song) named 'V-Console Showcase' registrations, which are very effective in showcasing its functionality.  After playing with V-Console for a couple of hours, I am hooked, and cannot go back to playing with only the Genos.

John Beesley, the developer of V-Console, is an excellent organ / arranger player.  He is very patient and responsive in supporting his software.  I corresponded with him intensively on some of the V-Console configuration / setup problems, and he has been very helpful.

Currently, I only have 2 issues with V-Console for Genos:
1.  The sustain pedals of Genos and PX560 work fine when not using V-Console.  They currently do not work from within V-Console.  I have contacted John Beeley for suggestion / solution.
2.  The V-Console program exits with an error message "Run time error '76': Path not found".  I consider this a minor issue.

V-Console for Genos is not cheap at £399, but it greatly enhances the playing of music to a different dimension.  I consider this software as the best playing companion software for Genos and I hope John Beesley will keep on enhancing the V-Console software.

Thanks,
Paul

[Robert van Weersch]

Off-topic, but that's an impressive setup you've got there

[zionip]

Thanks Robert.

I 'borrowed' the Casio Privia PX560 from the Ketron SD90 module setup on the left to finish the V-Console for Genos configuration for the time being.  I may have to get a cheap 88-key MIDI controller keyboard with USB MIDI such as the Nektar Impact LX88+ for the V-Console setup, and return the PX560 to the Ketron SD90 setup.

I played with the V-Console for Genos some more tonight with the 'V-Console showcase registrations' - it is a beautiful software that makes Genos sound even more 'intoxicating'.

Thanks,
Paul

[jwyvern]

Hi Paul, thanks for your review. I am currently at a sort of half way house towards VC, routing extra voices to the song channels to get richer, more dynamic sounds. Of course this interferes with the ability to record via midi, although audio recording remains possible. Does v-console permit full midi recording or would you also have to stick with audio when using it?

John

[zionip]

Hi John,

i purchased V-Console for Genos over this past weekend and spent most of my time configuring it properly and playing for great fun.  I have not thought about MIDI recording yet.

The V-Console user manual 2 page 101 mentioned:
V-Console uses the same channels used for MIDI songs. This means that you cannot play a MIDI file and use V-Console at the same time. If you would like to play along to a MIDI backing then a good idea is to record the MIDI file as an audio file first.

From the above, I speculate that V-Console uses the same idea of yours, routing extra voices to the song channels, which interferes with MIDI recording, leaving only audio recording possible on the Genos.

However, since V-Console actually runs on Windows 10 laptop/PC, it is perhaps possible to split the MIDI signals to record MIDI on the computer using DAW.  I have to admit, I currently have no time for digging this one out. 

Thanks,
Paul

[keyplayer]

Hi Paul, that's a great review of the V-console, although I do get a bit lost on the MIDI bits! Anyway, as you may have read on other posts I use V-Console with a Tyros 5, lower NP31 and a set of Orla pedals. I also wouldn't go back to not using the console and can re-iterate just how helpful John Beesley is. The more I use it the more I realise so many different ways and reasons for using it within my set up, depending on whether I want to link registrations or not. For the lower keyboard and pedals it is a must!
I think you can record straight to audio song, but I've not tried it.
Pam

[zionip]

Hi Paul, that's a great review of the V-console, although I do get a bit lost on the MIDI bits! Anyway, as you may have read on other posts I use V-Console with a Tyros 5, lower NP31 and a set of Orla pedals. I also wouldn't go back to not using the console and can re-iterate just how helpful John Beesley is. The more I use it the more I realise so many different ways and reasons for using it within my set up, depending on whether I want to link registrations or not. For the lower keyboard and pedals it is a must!
I think you can record straight to audio song, but I've not tried it.
Pam

Hi Pam,

How are you?

Are you using different sustain pedals for your V-Console upper (Tyros 5) and lower (NP31) keyboards?  I want to setup sustain pedals for both the upper and lower keyboards, so they acts separately.  With V-Console, I am able to activate sustain pedal either for upper keyboard (which sustains notes triggered from both upper and lower keyboards, thus not what I want), or sustain pedal for lower keyboard (which only sustains the notes triggered by the lower keyboard, but not the upper keyboard, which is more acceptable).

Update:

I finally figured out how to activate sustain pedal for lower keyboard only:
On V-Console 'Voice Set 2' page, press the "Sustain" controller button to activate sustain.
On V-Console 'Controller' page, press the 'Sustain' button so it turns green, then press the sustain pedal of the lower keyboard, the laptop/PC will give out a confirmation ring sound and the Sustain button returns to its previous color, then click the check mark on 'Link Exp.'. to memorize the setting.

Now I can play, within V-Console software, sustained piano notes on the lower keyboard, while the notes on the upper keyboard is not sustained. I will have to accept this compromise for now until John Beesley provides a solution/instruction for activation of separate sustain pedals for their corresponding keyboards.

Thanks,
Paul

[Bachus]

Thanks Robert.

I 'borrowed' the Casio Privia PX560 from the Ketron SD90 module setup on the left to finish the V-Console for Genos configuration for the time being.  I may have to get a cheap 88-key MIDI controller keyboard with USB MIDI such as the Nektar Impact LX88+ for the V-Console setup, and return the PX560 to the Ketron SD90 setup.

I played with the V-Console for Genos some more tonight with the 'V-Console showcase registrations' - it is a beautiful software that makes Genos sound even more 'intoxicating'.

Thanks,
Paul

Try before you buy...
Indidn't like the touch of the Nektar..
Its kind of piano unlike..

Atleast thats what i think, are you looking for graded hammer action?

[zionip]

Try before you buy...
Indidn't like the touch of the Nektar..
Its kind of piano unlike..

Atleast thats what i think, are you looking for graded hammer action?

Hi Bachus,

Good advice.

The Nektar Impact LX88+ has semi-weighted action keys, not really graded hammer action keys.  Since the Genos keys are between semi-weighted and synth action, I thought the Nektar provides similar key feels of Genos.  Playing left hand with graded hammer action keys, and playing right hand with semi-weighted or even synth action keys feels a little weird.

In your opinion, should I look for something like the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk 2 (coming soon), Aturia KeyLab 88 (key feels a bit sluggish), StudioLogic SL88 Grand (not available locally for testing), or the Kawai VPC1 (great but super expensive)?

Thanks,
Paul

[zionip]

Hi Bachus,

I returned the Casio PX560M to the Ketron SD90 setup, and moved the 18-year-old 24.3kg/54lb Yamaha S80 88-key hammer action synth to the V-Console for Genos setup as the lower keyboard for now to save some money. 


Thanks,
Paul

[zionip]

Update on the sustain pedal configuration:

From John Beesley, the developer of V-Console:
I understand what you are trying to do but you can only assign a single sustain controller within V-Console. This is because the parts can be played from both upper and lower at the same time. Two incoming sustain controls would just override one another. So it's necessary to have a master sustain pedal that can be assigned on or off for each part. It's very straight forward to achieve musically what you describe by allowing the sustain to operate some parts and not others. All of which can be stored in each registration. I think the best configuration is to allow the sustain pedal of the lower keyboard to be the master for all of the V-Console parts. You can choose which parts will be affected in the voice set 2 page.

I changed the 'CC~#0/C#-1 - Sustain' to 'No Assign' on the MIDI template used by V-Console on Genos, so the notes played on the Genos are not affected by the master sustain pedal, but this setup still allows Genos's own sustain pedal affects its R1, R2, R3, and Left voices when needed.

Each of the 8 parts / voices for the upper, lower, and pedal within V-Console can be turned on or off for sustain - a decent solution / workaround relying on V-Console's own registrations.

Thanks,
Paul

[zionip]

Update:

The following 2 initial issues are fixed:
1.  The sustain pedals of Genos and PX560 work fine when not using V-Console.

     V-Console for Genos 'Controllers' tab - click sustain button, which changes to green when selected, then press the sustain
     pedal to record it as the V-Console sustain pedal.
     V-Console only allows one sustain pedal, but there is sustain option per each of the voices on the "Voice Set 2" tab.
     To use Genos local sustain pedal on Genos local voices, Menu - MIDI - External Controller - CC#0/C#-1 set to "No Assign".

2.  The V-Console program exits with an error message "Run time error '76': Path not found".

     The exit code "Run-time error '76': Path not found" of V-Console for Genos on my Lenovo Yoga 720 15.6 inch 2-in-1 laptop went away 'silently'.

I was having fingerprint scanner not working after Windows 10 update on the laptop.  So I searched for solution to this problem, and eventually fixed the fingerprint scanner.  After that, the V-Console for Genos exit error messages on my laptop also went away and has not returned.

All I did to fix the Synaptics fingerprint scanner not working by performing the following steps:

A.  Ran cmd.exe as administrator and ran the following 2 commands:
     sfc /scannow
     DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
B.  Entered the BIOS setup, Security menu, Intel SGX entry, enabled it.
C.  Updated the Synaptics fingerprint scanner driver.

I suspect that my step A above fixed the exit error of V-Console for Genos on my Lenovo laptop.

The V-Console for Genos software version 2.1.4 is very stable. Once the hardware / software setup errors were ironed out, the software just works as expected. Midiplus 8x8 USB 3.0 to 8 MIDI in x 8 MIDI out worked for a while, but quit working after some Windows 10 update. I replaced it with a Roland UM-ONE USB 2.0 to MIDI adapter cable (1 in 1 out), which gets its USB driver directly from Windows update. The Roland UM-ONE works flawlessly with V-Console, with a minor disadvantage of not quite long enough connection cable.

Thanks,
Paul

[zionip]

Update:  Microsoft Windows 10 update messed up my V-Console for Genos setup

Microsoft released a Windows update on November 2, 2018. Once my V-Console laptop got updated, the V-Console for Genos program started to have problems - the Genos (upper keyboard) and Kronos (lower keyboard) still transmitted MIDI signals to V-Console, but there was no sound from Genos. The V-Console for Genos did not receive any MIDI signals from the JG3 Tech 24-note pedal. Later on, V-Console 32-bit program ran and could be found in the process table of Task Manager, but V-Console is not showing its GUI on any screens - my V-Console for Genos was total broken at that time.

In order to debug and resolve the problem, I went through the following steps:

1. Uninstalled the latest Windows 10 update dated November 2, 2018.
2. Reinstalled V-Console 2,1,4 for Genos software, and replaced the bad version of V-Console.exe binary with the newer version that John Beesley gave me.
3. Uninstalled the Yamaha USB driver 3.1.4, and reinstalled it.
4. Uninstalled the driver of Roland UM-ONE mk2, reinstalled it (from Windows update).
5. Removed Logitech Brio 4K webcam from the laptop.
6. Removed the external touchscreen monitor.

V-Console then ran showing its GUI, but the JG3 Tech 24-note pedal still did not work with V-Console. The JG3 Tech 24-note pedal worked fine with direct hookup with Kronos and Roland XP30 synths, so it was working properly. The problem seemed to be caused by the Roland UM-ONE mk2 USB-to-MIDI interface after the Windows 10 update.

Then I installed the MIDIOX program http://www.midiox.com/ recommended by John Beesley to debug outside of the V-Console program, and found that there was no MIDI signals coming from the Roland UM-ONE mk2 USB-to-MIDI interface. I then replaced the Roland UM-ONE mk2 with the iRig 2 USB-to-MIDI interface, and also powered off / on the JG3 Tech 24-note pedal. After this I could see MIDI signals coming from the iRig 2 on MIDIOX program.

I then reconfigured V-Console to use iRig 2 for the connection of the JG3 pedal, then exited V-Console, and shutdown the laptop. Then I hooked the external touchscreen monitor back and set it as the primary display, booted the laptop back up, and now V-Console works fine as before. I wasted a whole day in debugging and fixing V-Console problem caused by Windows update.

Conclusion:

1. Windows 10 update messed up my laptop environment for V-Console. For now, I paused the Windows update till a month later, and will keep pausing Windows updates since I need WiFi to be on. For other V-Console users with the dedicated Windows tablet, I would recommend other V-Console users to turn off WiFi of the V-Console Windows tablets to prevent unexpected V-Console outage caused by Windows 10 updates.

2. The Logitech Brio 4K webcam might have caused some USB conflicts. I was using the Logitech Brio 4K webcam clamped upside down above the Kronos 2 88-key to continuously monitor the 8-inch touchscreen of the keyboard, and feed the signal to ManyCams for video left/right and vertical flips to pass to Windows 10 Camera app so I can see the very fine, almost unreadable fonts of the Kronos 2 touchscreen on the much larger 15.6-inch laptop screen. Now I will have to make do with the Kronos Editor software on the laptop.

Thanks,
Paul

[gerarde]

Paul,
Here is a way to prevent Windows from updating.
Hope this helps you out.
I have done it on my computer last year but can't remember if this is the way I did it.

https://www.easeus.com/todo-backup-resource/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-automatically-update.html

Regards,
Gerard

[zionip]

Hi Gerard,

Method one mentioned in your link, disabling Windows Update Service is a good enough solution for me.

Thanks,
Paul

[keyplayer]

Hi Paul, just seen your post about the windows update. When you buy the tablet with the installed V-Console complete WiFi is already turned off, so your post has definitely stopped me from turning it on, don't think I could cope with all that re-installing without fearing I would never get it all back!! From time to time I get pop up messages saying windows security is out of date which John has warned of in the user manual but of course it doesn't matter. I hope all is OK for you now.
You had also solved the problem of the sustain pedal by the time I saw that post so I didn't reply.
I really enjoy the extra flexibilty the V-Console gives, even 'tho it means I probably spend more time setting up my registrations - I've realised there are several different ways to incorporate it and the end result is well worth it.
Pam

[zionip]

Hi Pam,

After this V-Console interruption by automatic Windows update event, I will proactively create system restore points before making any hardware or software changes, or applying any future Windows updates as a system baseline protection.  By doing so, I can always return the system status back to before the changes to restore lost functionality.

Thanks,
Paul

[Togge]

Are there any playable bass voices for the manual bass on pedals?
I know I reed somewhere this is a problem with bass pedals on Yamaha and that someone had special vocies on a Registick for this pupose.
Is it possible to add a little bit of sustain to organ flutes to use for bass pedals?

[keyplayer]

Hi Togge, because all the voices that are on the keyboard are already installed on the V-Console it means that you can assign any voice from the console to anywhere on whichever keyboard you want - upper, lower or bass pedals. So you can use any bass voice from the bass category or indeed any voice from any voice category for the pedals, more than one at a time if you want. You can also easily edit voices - adding some sustain and reverb is really straightforward, octave shift, brightness - all achieved on one screen, then save them into 'favourites' or just into a registration.
Pam

[khudson7]

WOW!  Thanks Paul, fantastic review.  I would buy this in a New York minute if it worked with Mac or iPad.   

[Bachus]

Makes me wonder if anyone else made the step to buy this..

Would love to see more pictures of V-console setups from users that turn their Genos in a dual keybed organ this way..

What worries me most, is how people set this up so they can easilly reach the screen.. during playing..
The only thing i can imagine that would work is a smaller screen standing up directly behind the Genos screen in a standup position.. 

But this, being a sheetmusic reader would block my sheetmusic and even worse....  make it hard to turn pages ...so it would make the lovely sheet music stand of my genos obsolete...

[Bachus]

http://www.tyrosorgan.com/

Does anyone know what keybed and stand TRX is using for their Genos organ?


Edit :

———


Its a piagero n32
Which is a rather low end keybed, which has piano sounds on board, but no physical midi..
I guess there has to be better options then this..

And the stand? Could be custom made
Anyone playing a )trx) dual keybed genos?

[keyplayer]

Hi Bachus, I don't have a Genos but I do have a Tyros 5 with a 2nd keyboard, pedals and V-Console.
The hardware version comes in a 10'' (windows) tablet, I have mine sitting in a tablet holder, the sort with a flap over that is held in place by an elastic retainer. The flap folds back and can form a flat bottom and tucks in the back of itself to form a stand for the tablet. Hope you know what I mean. I have my tablet sitting in this holder to the right side of my screen, standing on the panel just in front of and to the right of the music desk and behind the top row of buttons on the right side. I have attached it to the short leg of the music desk behind it using some velcro round the elastic retainer.
It works well for me with the T5 but I don't know how it would be with the Genos?
I can easily reach it whilst playing but if you use registrations you can set the keyboard buttons to also change the V-Console buttons.
I tried to upload a photo but it 'failed the security checks'.
With regard the 2nd keyboard you could use any keyboard so long as it has the correct MIDI connections. The 2nd keyboard is really just used as a dummy keyboard because all the voices are directed from the Tyros/Genos.
Hope that helps in some way.
Pam

[jwyvern]

I have V-console with Genos which I play at home, but not a 2 keyboard system. The VC tablet simply stands on the extreme right of the music stand and I can reach out to touch it to edit, which is useful if not essential for setting up new VC registrations. Once a registration is established I am not keen on reaching out to change voices in mid play. It is somewhat  distracting and it is not easy to remember which positions (of the 8 available) hold the voices I want to add or subtract by sliding a finger across the screen. I prefer to make a new registration for whatever variations I need and change to that, which only requires 1 simple screen touch per VC registration change.
I find even that less intuitive than using the more readily accessible Genos reg. buttons for changing setups live. It so happens VC has  features that allows linking of Genos Regs. to VC ones so that they all change together in the way the player wants. The method I currently prefer involves putting special voice codes in the Genos's LH voice (VC will do this for you at the touch of an icon) so that pushing a Genos reg button also causes the chosen matching VC reg to appear. This method requires the  LH voice to be set up in the VC reg since it is no longer available from the Genos reg. The flexibility is such that you can layer LH voices if you choose.
John

[keyplayer]

Hi John, you have explained that operation so much better than me! If you wanted to keep the VC off the music rest and stand it on the panel of the Genos is there any way you could restrain it against the leg of the music rest? I find it brings the VC just that little bit closer to me, especially useful to me when editing.
I also use registrations the majority of the time.
Pam

[jwyvern]

Hi Pam,
I think the most practical position for the tablet for me is on the music rest, because anywhere else results in covering up useful buttons or sliders on Genos. There is also the need to secure it well enough so it does not flex too badly  when poked with a finger and while the rest is not perfect in this respect it provides better rigidity than other methods I considered (apart from riveting a holder to the top panel of Genos!).
The tablet is rotated so the power button is at bottom right so it is always accessible because the tablet  protrudes about 2.5 inches beyond the end of the rest. This leaves about 18 inches (450mm) of rest to take music, although in my case I hardly ever use it for that. The distance from eyes to tablet (without leaning) is 2ft (600mm) which is OK. It would be nice if the tablet could be within 6-12 inch touching distance for editing but I have not given that priority because am not sure how practical it is to achieve 
John

Ps the black of Genos does not make for good detail in the photo!

[attachment deleted by admin]

[mikf]

Re the OPs pic of the his set up, would this be your dream ....or your worst nightmare
For me it would most likely be divorce!!
Mike

[keyplayer]

Hi Mike, to have a Genos and V-Console like John would be my dream at the moment (I would also want to keep my 2nd keyboard and pedals), the outcome would probably not be as drastic as divorce but even tho' I know what I can justify to buy I also know what I can afford, so therefore I have to keep my T5 - which I'm very happy with and grateful for having.
Pam

[mikf]

Pam - Johns set up is positively frugal compared to the OPs!
Mike

[jwyvern]

Pam - Johns set up is positively frugal compared to the OPs!
Mike

I can understand and respect a desire to explore and maybe hold onto different hardware.
In my case I like to focus on the quality of the sounds, the setups and playing techniques to achieve realism from live playing. Having too much hardware would only distract from that for me, and I don't need for my time spent on music to grow like topsy in that direction, there's too much else to do  .
BTW if I had taken a photo to the right you would see the frugal content includes a large laptop connected to a 24inch screen. 

I have often likened the idea of having say just 2 keyboards to having more than 1 partner, I would  never know who to go to first to get the best response. As I think a song says "Who would I turn to?"       

John