Headphones not working

[EB5AGV]

Hi all,

I am very frustrated tonight. For the first time, I wanted to use the Genos with headphones, so I have plugged them on the front connector. But there is no sound through them nor the speakers get muted!. I have tried two different headphones, just in case. I have even powered the unit on with the plug inserted. But nothing happens.

I hope it is not a hardware fault but, so far, I have no idea of what could be happening. There is only one System Menu item which relates with the headphones but all of the three options available do the same. No sound and no speakers muted. A firmware glitch?. I guess not, as it should be already detected by other people.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Jose

[panos]

I guess it is nothing to worry about Jose.
The option of muting the speakers is somewhere on the menu.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,44295.msg349041.html#msg349041

Hi Dermot J,

Unlike earlier PSR models, the S970/770 has a function similar to that on Tyros models which controls what happens when you plug headphones into the keyboard.

Press  Function > Utility (in Menu 1) > Config2.

Select Option 1 - Speaker.  This is the setting that controls the behaviour of the on board speakers.

At the bottom of the display you will see a list of possible settings for this.

The options are:

HEADPHONE SW: Speaker sounds normally, but is cut off when headphones are connected to the [PHONES] jack.

ON: Speaker sound is always on, even if headphones are connected.

OFF: Speaker sound is off. You can only hear the instrument sound via the headphones or an external device connected to the AUX OUT jacks.

For auto switching of the speakers when you plug in headphones you need to set this to HEADPHONE SW.

This is a system setting, so once you set it, it should stay as set until you change it, or carry out a system reset after which it will revert to the default setting (I don't know what this is on an S970/770, but I would have thought that it would be SPEAKER SW)!

Regards

Ian

[EB5AGV]

Hello!

No, that is not the problem. I have found what happens, and it seems like a software glitch. A serious one, at least for me!

As I told on first message, I had tried the three options of the System Menu (HEADPHONE SW, ON and OFF) and any of them generated any output on the headphones nor switched the speakers off. I should say I am NOT using the optional Genos speakers but have a pair of JBL monitors attached to the MAIN LINE OUT connectors, which is how Yamaha instructs to do it.

Doing some tests I have found that, whenever you connect one connector (yes, only one of the two, even the R one) to the MAIN LINE OUT, the headphones are inoperative. And that output signal is not muted by inserting the headphones jack. But if I remove those LINE OUT connectors, the headphones work!

I guess that perhaps with the optional Genos speakers the system works as it should BUT it should also work the way I am trying, that is, with the speakers connected to the MAIN LINE OUT connectors.

As I told previously, I think this is a software glitch. I didn't check with the original firmware (1.02) as the first thing I did was to update the unit to 1.3

What would be interesting is to find someone else which uses the MAIN LINE OUT speakers connection and v1.3, to see if this is a problem on all Genos or just mine.

Thanks!

Jose

[EB5AGV]

Well, I have found a solution to my problem, adding an external mixer and forgetting about the Genos headphones connection. It is odd that they are fully muted when there is anything connected to the MAIN LINE OUT but, well, this is how Yamaha seems to have decided they should work.



Jose

[Toril S]

Nice studio setup you have rhere Jose!!

[soryt]

I have always my line out on the Genos pluged in , but my headphone out works normal

there must be something strange happening on youre unit ?

Soneg 

[EB5AGV]

I have always my line out on the Genos pluged in , but my headphone out works normal

there must be something strange happening on youre unit ?

Soneg 

This is interesting, as on my unit the headphones only work if there is nothing attached to any of the the MAIN LINE OUT connectors. I have tried all the cabling possibilities, menu options, reseted the unit and such.

BTW, do you use an STEREO connector on the LINE OUT or two MONO ones? (I use the later)

Now I don't know what to do... I bought my unit from Thomann in Germany. And I am in Spain. Returning it is an option, but I don't want to take the risk of an international transport just for that problem.

But, of course, if there is a fault on the Genos, that will reduce its value in the event of a future sale...

I will contact the seller and ask them what to do. If they offer to return it and send a new unit, that would be perhaps OK. I have it just since last Thursday.

Thanks for your help!

Jose

[MarkF_48]

Jose,

I do not have a Genos, but I downloaded a service manual for the Tyros4. I'm going on an assumption the audio circuits between the Genos and Tyro4 may be somewhat similar.

Looking at the schematic for the Tyros4 audio section (screenshot attached below) it appears that plugging cables into Line Out the 'Main' jacks should not affect the headphone audio. However, plugging cables into the Line Out 'Sub' jacks 1,2, Aux 3, or 4 might do something, as those jacks have internal contacts within that open when a plug is inserted and may interrupt the signal path or send a signal to the main processor to mute the headphones and/or other outputs. It's difficult to follow the path of these circuits as they go to several different pages of sheets. There is also a relay in the Tyros4 that does appear to have a logic input that does act to mute the headphones, but I'm not sure under what conditions it would do this.

Is there any chance your cables are plugged into the 'Sub' jacks and not the 'Main' Line Outs? This may possibly mute the headphone audio.

Again this is based on a Tyros4 and may not be the same as the Genos circuitry.

"BTW, do you use an STEREO connector on the LINE OUT or two MONO ones? (I use the later)"
Two MONO TS (tip/sleeve) cables would be the ones to use.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[EB5AGV]

Thanks for your detailed work on this. Unfortunately, the connections are correctly fit on the MAIN LINE OUT connectors using MONO plugs, so something is not working as it should.

Jose

[Toril S]

Have you tried a factory reset?

[EB5AGV]

Have you tried a factory reset?

Yes, I did 

What I will try next is to fully reinstall the firmware v1.3, just in case.

Jose

[EB5AGV]

I have always my line out on the Genos pluged in , but my headphone out works normal

there must be something strange happening on youre unit ?

Soneg 

Please, Soneg, could you check this for me?

When speakers are connected to MAIN LINE OUT, if you go to MENU - MENU2 - SPEAKER/CONNECTIVITY and set SPEAKER option to OFF, do you still get audio or is it muted?

On my unit, regardless of what I set on that option, there is always audio, and a headphone jack plugged does nothing (i.e. no audio on the headphones and no muting of the output)

Thanks!

Jose

[EB5AGV]

May this explain my problem?

Please, note than on Owners Manual this info (the one marked in RED) is not shown, but in the Reference Manual is:



As I am NOT using the GNS-MS01 that could mean the switching is NOT made on MAIN LINE OUT as is made on the GNS-MS01 set.

Please, could someone check if the MAIN LINE OUT is muted when a headphone is connected?. I am getting mad about this 

Thanks!

Jose

[Marcus]

Hi all,

I am very frustrated tonight. For the first time, I wanted to use the Genos with headphones, so I have plugged them on the front connector. But there is no sound through them nor the speakers get muted!. I have tried two different headphones, just in case. I have even powered the unit on with the plug inserted. But nothing happens.

I hope it is not a hardware fault but, so far, I have no idea of what could be happening. There is only one System Menu item which relates with the headphones but all of the three options available do the same. No sound and no speakers muted. A firmware glitch?. I guess not, as it should be already detected by other people.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Jose

Hi Jose

I noticed your headphones in your studio photo appear to have the integrated volume control. These latest headphone types designed for Android or Apple product types have the volume control designed into the ground sleeve of the plug end. If the ground contact in the Genos headphone jack misses the ground sleeve and happens to only contact the mic control sleeve your headphones won't work. Nothing is wrong with the Genos.

I love using my Bose Quietcomfort 25 with my Genos from time to time. I use the Apple version, but must use an adapter to separate or isolate the mic control. I use the following adapter which I found to be the easiest solution. My headphones plug into the female end of the adapter and the headphone lead of the Y-adapter plugs into my Genos and the mic control is isolated allowing proper grounding or my headphones to work. I just tape back the mic lead that isn't being used.

Here is the link to the adapter I bought.
3.5mm 4 Position to 2x 3 Position 3.5mm Headset Splitter Adapter - F/M
https://www.startech.com/Cables/Audio-Video/Audio-Cables/35mm-4-Position-to-2x-3-Position-35mm-Headset-Splitter-Adapter-F-M~MUYHSFMM

This photo might help explain the Apple and Android versions for headphone mic control where contact 1 & 2 are sharing the original ground sleeve design.


Hope this helps.
Marcus

[EB5AGV]

Hi Jose

I noticed your headphones in your studio photo appear to have the integrated volume control. These latest headphone types designed for Android or Apple product types have the volume control designed into the ground sleeve of the plug end. If the ground contact in the Genos headphone jack misses the ground sleeve and happens to only contact the mic control sleeve your headphones won't work. Nothing is wrong with the Genos.

I love using my Bose Quietcomfort 25 with my Genos from time to time. I use the Apple version, but must use an adapter to separate or isolate the mic control. I use the following adapter which I found to be the easiest solution. My headphones plug into the female end of the adapter and the headphone lead of the Y-adapter plugs into my Genos and the mic control is isolated allowing proper grounding or my headphones to work. I just tape back the mic lead that isn't being used.

Here is the link to the adapter I bought.
3.5mm 4 Position to 2x 3 Position 3.5mm Headset Splitter Adapter - F/M
https://www.startech.com/Cables/Audio-Video/Audio-Cables/35mm-4-Position-to-2x-3-Position-35mm-Headset-Splitter-Adapter-F-M~MUYHSFMM

This photo might help explain the Apple and Android versions for headphone mic control where contact 1 & 2 are sharing the original ground sleeve design.


Hope this helps.
Marcus

Hello Marcus,

Thanks for your message and work on this.

Yes, the headphones shown are one of those (curiously enough, they were sold as a bundle with the Genos!). But I have also checked with other ones, which are common STEREO units (Sennheiser HD206), which I use with my DGX660, and the problem remains.

Thanks!

Jose

Note: I had checked also that the Pioneer SE-MS5T-T, which are the brown ones, when used with a common 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapter, present about 1k resistance from L to GND and from R to GND. And also, when used with the Yamaha mixing console (MG10XU), they work fine.

Note 2: Thanks for your comment, I have just ordered a "Y" cable so I can properly adapt them, even if they seem to work with an standard adapter, it is not the right way to do it.

[soryt]

I Use main out (l&R) with mono plugs to my audio interface ( Focusrite Scarlett) , but in the second screen (Menu2) under Utility stands Speaker on "Headphone Switch"
see the screen >>

i dont have and use the Yamaha GNS speakers .

Soneg  

[attachment deleted by admin]

[EB5AGV]

I Use main out (l&R) with mono plugs to my audio interface ( Focusrite Scarlett) , but in the second screen (Menu2) under Utility stands Speaker on "Headphone Switch"
see the screen >>

i dont have and use the Yamaha GNS speakers .

Soneg

Yes, I have tried the three options available and have NEVER any audio coming from the headphones (I can only get audio on the headphones if I disconnect both connectors from MAIN LINE OUT)

But also, even if I put the parameter you show to OFF, the audio keeps going from the L/R MAIN LINE OUT ports. That is what I asked you, if you put that parameter to OFF, is the audio still present on the MAIN LINE OUT or is it muted?

Jose

[MarkF_48]

Jose,

If you haven't tried this already, try switching the monitors to the 'Line Out' 'Sub' 1,2 or 3 aux, 4 aux and see if the same thing occurs with the headphones. In the Tyros4 the only thing that disables the headphones is a relay enabled by a 'MUTE' logic function from the processor. The 'Main Outs' have no facility to enable this MUTE logic. Again this is the Tyros4 I'm referring to, but I believe shouldn't stray too far from the same in the Genos.

[EB5AGV]

Jose,

If you haven't tried this already, try switching the monitors to the 'Line Out' 'Sub' 1,2 or 3 aux, 4 aux and see if the same thing occurs with the headphones. In the Tyros4 the only thing that disables the headphones is a relay enabled by a 'MUTE' logic function from the processor. The 'Main Outs' have no facility to enable this MUTE logic. Again this is the Tyros4 I'm referring to, but I believe shouldn't stray too far from the same in the Genos.

I have checked and Tyros 5 has exactly the same outputs arrangement. Even has an almost identical interface for the LINE OUT selections. But they tell that the audio signal should be present same time at the headphones output, MAIN LINE OUT and optional speakers, which clearly my unit does not. What puzzles me is that my Genos detects when a plug is inserted on any MAIN LINE OUT socket, which seems a function not documented / explained.

One of the problems using any AUX LINE OUT is that level is constant, so I would need anyway the external mixer to control it.

I am going to do some more tests, but sadly I am almost sure I have tried all the combinations already. I have even reinstalled the firmware again, just in case. But, of course, nothing has changed.

Jose

[stephenm52]

Hi Jose,

First I like your studio setup and I noticed some ham radio equipment and your on line name EB5AGV.  I'm W1DAM here in the US, I'm not a very active in ham radio but always wanted to become one so when I retired 5 years ago I studied and earned a General class license.

73
W1DAM

[EB5AGV]

Hi all,

I copy here what have just written on another thread, as it is related to this one:

I think I have found the problem... or, best said, the solution has found me! 

I had tried all plug combinations and menu options, reinstalling v1.3, performing a full reset several times and so on. Nothing had helped, still had no sound on the headphones with the MAIN LINE OUT connectors fitted. And it came back as soon as I removed both of them. I tested that several times.

But about an hour ago I have decided to play the Genos, as this weekend, which I expected to be a wonderful one with the new toy, had become a nightmare of silly prroblems (with it and with the Yamaha external mixer). So I wanted to go bed with a better experience to start the week happier...

Well, I have powered the Genos and, just for fun, have connected the headphones... and, yes, they worked as they should!!!. At least, I had audio coming from them. And the MAIN LINE OUT connectors were fitted!. I have tried to remove them to see if reinserting them changed something. But not... What is true is that audio keeps going on MAIN LINE OUT despite connecting the HEADPHONES, but that is up to certain point, logical. Anyway, as I have connected the Genos to the external mixer, I have just put the output volume level to zero and have finally enjoyed some time with the keyboard!

All in all, I am not very confident of the solution, as it has no explanation for me. Of course, I will try again tomorrow morning. But, well, perhaps is just another glitch of the Genos firmware. I found once that a voice sounded badly distorted. Just changing to another one and going back to the first fixed it. I guess some data was not properly loaded. But this has only happened once so far.

Bye for now!

Jose

[EB5AGV]

Hi Jose,

First I like your studio setup and I noticed some ham radio equipment and your on line name EB5AGV.  I'm W1DAM here in the US, I'm not a very active in ham radio but always wanted to become one so when I retired 5 years ago I studied and earned a General class license.

73
W1DAM

Hi!

It is nice to meet another ham radio operator online 

Yes, I have quite a bit of radio gear around. In fact, my main work is fixing that kind of electronics 

73 Jose EB5AGV

[MarkF_48]

I just saw your recent update, but I'll post this as food for thought.......

I'm stumped as this shouldn't work like this, but one last thing maybe to try if you haven't already. Unplug the audio cables from the monitors leaving them open ended and try the headphone jack. Wondering if there is some peculiar ground loop between the monitors and the Genos that in some weird way is setting off the MUTE logic. Breaking the connection between the monitors and the Genos may clear it and show it is not the mechanical insertion of the plug into the Line Input that's doing it.
I hope this function is not intentional, as it certainly would be poor design for the Line Outs to kill the headphones.

I'm surprised other Genos owners haven't popped in to give this a try to confirm what you seem to have found. Even your dealer should be able to test this for you (I would hope).

[zionip]

Hi Jose,

The "Headphone switch" setting on Genos only affects the Genos GNS-MS01 2.1 speakers, but not the main stereo outs.  With "Headphone switch" selected, plugging in headphones only silents the GNS-MS01 speakers if they are connected to the Genos and turned on.  Plugging in headphones does not affect the Main L/R outs.

If you still want to downgrade Genos firmware from 1.30 to 1.20, I uploaded Genos firmware 1.20 file here for you:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KbEvYdUd0GbmqyVEMjFDMLKOZ60ZVvWA/view?usp=sharing

Thanks,
Paul

[EB5AGV]

I just saw your recent update, but I'll post this as food for thought.......

I'm stumped as this shouldn't work like this, but one last thing maybe to try if you haven't already. Unplug the audio cables from the monitors leaving them open ended and try the headphone jack. Wondering if there is some peculiar ground loop between the monitors and the Genos that in some weird way is setting off the MUTE logic. Breaking the connection between the monitors and the Genos may clear it and show it is not the mechanical insertion of the plug into the Line Input that's doing it.
I hope this function is not intentional, as it certainly would be poor design for the Line Outs to kill the headphones.

I'm surprised other Genos owners haven't popped in to give this a try to confirm what you seem to have found. Even your dealer should be able to test this for you (I would hope).

Yes, as an engineer I also thought of current sensing or similar to detect when you plug something. There should be an explanation, I hope I finally find it!. I will do today some more tests.

I will keep you informed, it seems to me this should be a design and/or software question which could affect more or even all Genos.

Jose

[EB5AGV]

Hi Jose,

The "Headphone switch" setting on Genos only affects the Genos GNS-MS01 2.1 speakers, but not the main stereo outs.  With "Headphone switch" selected, plugging in headphones only silents the GNS-MS01 speakers if they are connected to the Genos and turned on.  Plugging in headphones does not affect the Main L/R outs.

If you still want to downgrade Genos firmware from 1.30 to 1.20, I uploaded Genos firmware 1.20 file here for you:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KbEvYdUd0GbmqyVEMjFDMLKOZ60ZVvWA/view?usp=sharing

Thanks,
Paul

OK, it seems Yamaha only cares 100% about their own speakers... I think that is not right, as the unit has so many capabilities that it is just a matter of software to exploit them in a better way. Perhaps in 1.4?

Thanks for the FW, I have downloaded it for possible use someday. I hope I will never need it!

Jose

[Dromeus]

Plugging in headphones does not affect the Main L/R outs.

... which is to be expected. All my other gear (Kawai, Roland, Yamaha, Akai, UHL Instruments) do behave exactly the same way.

I believe, when plugging headphones into the PSR line of arrangers, this will mute the INTERNAL speakers, but again NOT the line out ports. You may see the GNS-MS01 speakers as an "equivalent" to the built in speakers of the lower level models, so this behaviour is obviously targeted at the home players using GNS-MS01 speakers exclusively.

Back to the original problem, Jose. With my Genos the headphone jack always provides sound independently of using any of the MAIN OUT connectors or not. That's why I strongly believe that it's not a software problem and downgrading the FW won't help.

[EB5AGV]

... which is to be expected. All my other gear (Kawai, Roland, Yamaha, Akai, UHL Instruments) do behave exactly the same way.

I believe, when plugging headphones into the PSR line of arrangers, this will mute the INTERNAL speakers, but again NOT the line out ports. You may see the GNS-MS01 speakers as an "equivalent" to the built in speakers of the lower level models, so this behaviour is obviously targeted at the home players using GNS-MS01 speakers exclusively.

Back to the original problem, Jose. With my Genos the headphone jack always provides sound independently of using any of the MAIN OUT connectors or not. That's why I strongly believe that it's not a software problem and downgrading the FW won't help.

Thanks for your comments.

What puzzles me is why, after lots of attempts, it is working now (well, at least yesterday, I have not powered it today yet, need to do some work!)

I would like to find the root cause for the trouble I had as I am afraid it will return if not. I have my Genos just for 5 days today and, so far, I have spent more time trying to figure what happened that actually playing it  . I hope things change soon!

Jose

[EB5AGV]

I just saw your recent update, but I'll post this as food for thought.......

I'm stumped as this shouldn't work like this, but one last thing maybe to try if you haven't already. Unplug the audio cables from the monitors leaving them open ended and try the headphone jack. Wondering if there is some peculiar ground loop between the monitors and the Genos that in some weird way is setting off the MUTE logic. Breaking the connection between the monitors and the Genos may clear it and show it is not the mechanical insertion of the plug into the Line Input that's doing it.
I hope this function is not intentional, as it certainly would be poor design for the Line Outs to kill the headphones.

I'm surprised other Genos owners haven't popped in to give this a try to confirm what you seem to have found. Even your dealer should be able to test this for you (I would hope).

Thanks for this comment, you made me think and try new things and I have found what happens!. At least it is predictable now, but still don't know technically why it happens.

I am using a pair of amplified JBL LSR-305 monitors with my Genos. Well, as soon as I power them, the headphones are muted!. If I just power them off, even without removing cables, the headphones work.

Also, I have found why yesterday night magically the headphones began to work... I had then the Yamaha MG10XU mixing console connected to the Genos. On that configuration, the speakers are connected directly to the console and so the Genos behaves as it should.

So, summing up, there is something which triggers the headphones MUTE circuit when there is a connection to the LSR-305 speakers (and I guess that could happen with other brands and models). Is that a feature or an indication of a problem?. It is true that I am using the LSR-305 with non-balanced cables (TS-TS cables from the Genos to the speakers) but the manual of the monitors say that is a possible configuration and the Genos has non-balanced outputs.

Any idea of what could be happening?. I am new to pro-audio cabling and perhaps I am missing something basic.

At least I can use the Genos at night ; I have just put a switchable socket array for the monitors so I can easily get back the headphones operation.

BTW, I am not using the MG10XU as it had a problem (that was a real one, the effect select knob only worked upwards) and it is packed to be returned for a replacement. It is a pity, as it solved all my headphone problems!

Jose

[MarkF_48]

Jose,

I'm glad you sort of have it narrowed down. I have a pair of the LSR305's also (great monitors for the money!!). You should be using unbalanced cables as the Genos Line outs are unbalanced and they will work fine with the LSR305's.
I just did a check on my monitors and the sleeve connection to the 1/4" jack is connected back internally to the incoming AC ground of the male power plug connector, so the 1/4" cable shield 'should' be grounded going to the Genos. Within the Genos I'm not sure how things are grounded. In the Tyros4 schematic the sleeve of the 1/4" jack connection is tied back a central star point ground to the chassis. This method of circuit grounding eliminates or reduces ground loops within its own circuitry.
The LSR305's use a switch mode type of power supply for its amplifiers and depending on the filtering, it is entirely possible some 'digital' noise from its power supply could be sneaking into the Genos and causing some unpredictable events if the grounding between the two is poor.

With what your Genos is doing with the monitors I would try to ensure they are both on the same outlet and power strip. I think I saw an AC outlet in your studio picture and it's what I call a European type. I would suggest getting an outlet tester to ensure all is correct in the wiring of the outlets you use as well as any power strips, with particular attention to be sure grounds are intact. I believe something like this or similar would work depending on what is available where you are........
https://www.earthing.com/outlet-checker-europe-type-f.html