Everybodys ears are different for sounds and speakers

[gerarde]

Everybodys ears are different for sounds and speakers
Since the Genos has come out, there have been a lot of posts about the Genos voices and in another section about what speakers are good.
Here is an example of what the ears hear.
You go to a concert where there is about 20,000 people.
After each song is performed, there is handclapping, cheering, and high fives by everybody.

But, there are a few that have a different opinion.
Person 1 says, "I did not like the piano sound at all."
Person 2 says, "I liked the piano sound but the drums were too loud."
Person 3 says, "I liked the sound of the performance but, the speaker system had very little bass."
And the mojority of the 20,000 thought everything was great!

Now to my ears, my perception after having, in the past, a B3, Lowery MX1, Wersi Saturn, Technics, Korg, Ketron and Yamaha arrangers, what I found to my ears.
I still had my PSR S970 when I got my Genos.
I set both up through the same speaker system.
I played sounds and styles on both.
To my ears, it was an instant notice of difference in the sound, Genos being better.
I took some song styles I had purchased for the S970, loaded it on the Genos and then changed the drums to REVO drums, changed the bass on some, changed the voices on some, and could not believe how much better they sounded.
That is my humble opinion.

Next, I have gone through many, many speaker systems, and I went from a pair of QSC K12's to a pair of JBL EON ONEs.
I found the JBL EON ONEs were better, to my ears, than the Bose.
But after having them a while, I felt the bass was lacking.
So, I bought another pair of QSC K12's and found what I was missing.
Consequently, I am selling my pair of JBL EON ONEs.
It is probably the difference of 1000 watts RMS on the QSC, to the 380 watts rms on the JBl, that is making the difference.

Bottom line, what YOU perceive sounds good to YOU, is what you should go with, and not make everyone else like what you think is best.
Why? Because everyone's ears are different!

Gerard

[emmaco]

Yes, and moreover the brain gets used to what we are used to listen to. he must reformat himself when you've got new equipment.

[DerekA]

Yes, and moreover the brain gets used to what we are used to listen to. he must reformat himself when you've got new equipment.

Very true. If you've had the same keyboard for a while, then a new one will sound different. If it's different in a pleasing way to you, you'd class it as 'better'.

[Lee Batchelor]

Great post, Gerard. As for...

It is probably the difference of 1000 watts RMS on the QSC, to the 380 watts rms on the JBl, that is making the difference.

...wattage has very little to do with sound quality. I have heard 100 watt output speakers that outperform those with 1,000 watts output. The only difference was how loud they were. Even then, there are so many other factors. The Cerwin-Vega speakers of the 70s and 80s had massive output capabilities, but you needed to feed them with at least 500 watts just to get them started!

Driver efficiency, box design, cone characteristics, and more, are all factors to consider when choosing speakers. You're 100 percent right when you say that sound is such a personal thing ! What sounds good to one person, sounds terrible to another.

[keynote]

Buying a $5,000 keyboard is kind of pointless if you run the keyboard through a mediocre sound system. It would be better to buy a high quality pair of headphones and use them instead. But to each his own. Money doesn't grow on trees and I fully understand people's budget constraints but if you can afford a decent pair of speakers you will be rewarded in the end and so will your audience if you happen to gig.

People that play the Genos and end up being underwhelmed by the experience probably listened to it through inferior headphones or a mediocre sound system. The Genos is capable of producing stunning sound(s) but in order to hear it as it was meant to be heard you really do need a decent pair of speakers or at the very least a decent pair of headphones and that goes without saying. Garbage in garbage out as the saying goes.

Getting excellent results is pretty simple. High quality speakers, high quality cables, high quality keyboard a.k.a. Yamaha Genos etc., and as an option a high quality Mixer if you need to go that route. And don't get hung up about the Tyros 3/4/5 vs. the Genos because they are all good keyboards and really the most important thing is to enjoy whatever it is you play. If you feel the Tyros 3/4/5 is sufficient for your needs then more power to you. But as far as sound goes the same principle applies to the Tyros 3/4/5 or whatever keyboard it is you use.

By the way the QSC K12's are very nice speakers and there is now an updated version called the K12.2 - 2000W, which are also excellent. 

Mike   

[HalUnlimited]

I agree with all of you. Also, the choice of which headphones and which speakers are best will depend on whether you are using either of them for mixing or for listening pleasure. I love my Bose headphones for pleasure listening but they enhance the signal too much for me to use them as a true recording reference.

[J. Larry]

All very good observations about speakers, hearing, etc.  However, I'll add speaker weight into the mix.  At my age, I'm not carrying any speaker around that's heavier than my arranger (S975 at the moment).  I consider size and weight on any purchase, despite the cost, or what it sounds like.   

[Lee Batchelor]

Amen to that J. Larry!

Many speaker manufacturers still make very heavy speakers. Ironically, those who can most afford those heavy speakers can no longer lift the damn things! I built a 600 watt, 15" sub for use with my two Bose Compacts. It weighs in at only 40 pounds. It doubles as a bass guitar cabinet with our jazz trio. I used an Eminence neodymium driver that only weighs 7 pounds. I drive it with a Behringer 1,000 watt power amp with built in processors and EQ. It only weighs 6 pounds or so. At nearly 65, I need light duty equipment. Also, the Genos is a nice reduction in weight compared to the T5, and it sounds way better!

[Toril S]

Hello friends:) There is also the fact that no speakers or headphones sound at their best when completely new. The membranes and other parts must soften up a bit before they give the maximum output. They say you should never run a speaker at high volume at first, but take it gradually up. It takes from 10 hours to a couple of days use before they are at their best. And, as you have mentioned; the brain must be used to the new sound. And our ears are different, our preferences are different. The hunt for good sound can be a little challenging; the number of headphones and speakers is growing here. But it is not possible to win the race against Father Time, who distroys our hearing as the years go by.....

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point, Toril. There is a certain amount of break-in time for new drivers.

Also, those who set up in their play room at home have an enormous advantage over those who gig. Home players only need to get the sound right once. Us gigging musicians need to get the sound right in as many places as there are gigs! Even the same gig room can be different. There may be more or less furniture or patrons, wall coverings may change over time, the placement of the Genos...the list is lengthy.

[mikf]

Its not just ears, its also preferences. Some people like a lot of bass, some people like mellow, etc etc. Many people are also fooled into thinking that bassy equals quality. If its in your own home, then you pick what you like. A bit more complicated when you play for an audience but I personally think that sound quality can get exaggerated. Some people make a bit of a god out of it. Of course there is cheap, tinny, boomy - generally terrible, and none of us want that. But once you get to the level that I think of as 'good enough, clear enough and loud enough' what really matters is what you play, and how well you play. You cant rescue poor performance with better speakers.
Mike

[Lloyd E]

A very interesting and informative post.  I have a pr. of KRK Rokit 10s. They are three way speakers, having a separate amp. for each speaker. They sound very good and have
bass response I enjoy. They are heavy at 46 lbs. each. They are field monitors but they are still speakers and act like any other speaker. I like them but someone else may not.
It's just how the individual ear of each person hears sound.   Lloyd

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.... its also preferences. Some people like a lot of bass, some people like mellow, etc etc. Many people are also fooled into thinking that bassy equals quality. ...... I personally think that sound quality can get exaggerated. Some people make a bit of a god out of it. Of course there is cheap, tinny, boomy - generally terrible, and none of us want that. But once you get to the level that I think of as 'good enough, clear enough and loud enough' what really matters is what you play, and how well you play. You cant rescue poor performance with better speakers.
Mike

THANKS MIKE   There is little one can add to that, maybe:  watch Abby perform "What a Wonderful World"  e.g.  showmanship. It is clear that what you hear on your PC in MP3  does not have high quality sound reproduction, but in spite of that you sense  and enjoy the quality of the performance.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[keynote]

The Yamaha GNS-MS01 Speaker System for Genos is also a pretty decent sound system for the money. I understand the GNS-MS01 is an improvement over the Tyros series speaker system. You'd be surprised what a pair of smaller speakers can accomplish depending on the parts used and oftentimes a sub-woofer can really add depth to the dynamic range. Yamaha specifically tuned the GNS-MS01 for the Genos and they are a good alternative for those on a limited budget. But again if you can afford it there are certainly better options on the market such as the aforementioned QSC K12 and K12.2 powered speakers as well as Yamaha's own DSR112 1300W 12" powered speakers plus many others.

PS: An accomplished musician can make practically any keyboard sound good but a good quality sound system doesn't hurt either. Especially if you gig for a living. These are my opinions obviously. Objective opinions from others are always welcomed.

Mike