The biggest advantage of the Genos

[Bachus]

(And many other yamaha instruments)

Is that its 32 parts multitimbral fully accesible by midi.

Since most people domt use both styles and midifiles at the same time..
This gives huge advantages for integration in a midi setup..
-Vconsole for example is just a way to make brilliant use of this...
-But also trough Mainstage you can easilly create huge setups..

Now don't get me wrong.. 
But this all leaves a questio...

Why doesn't Yamaha allow internal routing of these voices?
Imagine how much fun it would be to have the song voices 1 to 8 assigned to hsliders and the whole(or parts of the) keybed... and then using te sliders to add or silence these stacked voices..

Its essentially what V-consoel does, but then safely inside the Genos..

[EileenL]

Maybe on Genos 2?.

[guitpic1]

What I wonder is how many different options could be changed just with a software upgrade from Yamaha?

[SeaGtGruff]

Why doesn't Yamaha allow internal routing of these voices?

This is typical of all keyboard manufacturers I know of who make multitimbral instruments-- Casio, Korg, Nord, Roland, Yamaha, etc. The instrument can play 16 or more different timbres at once-- one per MIDI channel, plus any other parts that the instrument has-- yet when you are playing the instrument you have access to and direct control over just a few timbres or voices. Note that I'm not counting timbres or voices that can be controlled indirectly, such as those used by styles and multi pads, but rather those which can be assigned to splits and layers.

[keynote]

What I wonder is how many different options could be changed just with a software upgrade from Yamaha?

Excellent question guitpic1. From my experience with various Yamaha keyboards Yamaha is mostly concerned about fixing software bugs and flaws. Once the OS is stable and generally bug free Yamaha seems to put new features and/or new functions on hold until the next product release which as Eileen said would be Genos 2. On the other hand Korg seems more intent on providing actual product enhancements such as OS 2.0 for the Pa4x, which added several new goodies from my understanding. Yamaha on the other hand has a much larger database of Styles to choose from plus a variety of expansion packs that add sonic enhancement to their products.

Yamaha's guiding principle could be "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Or as the Japanese would say: 明日の百より今日の五十.   In other words, "the things we already have are more valuable than the things we only hope to get." I'm talking about material things of course. Ultimately we are at the mercy of Yamaha whether it's bug fixes or new features or whatever. But it doesn't hurt to ask. At least Yamaha is aware of people's desire for new features and functions. It is up to Yamaha whether or not they actually implement them on keyboards currently on the market e.g. Genos, Montage, PSR-s975 etc. I guess the moral of the story is don't hold your breath. And besides Genos 2 isn't too far off.  What's three or four more years right?   I guess we can start by saving our pennies. Not a very comforting thought I know.  

Mike   

[guitpic1]

Most of what I'll ever use is already in the Genos OS.

RE: Korg updates as in vs. 2.0.  When I had the PA4X, I did update.  Good stuff but the main upgrade was to what they called KAOSS or something like that.  A feature I found hard to use and not practical for my type of music.

I'm hoping someday, that upgrades, like in a Genos 2 could be a software upgrade that would work on my Genos 1...even if it cost a bit.

Fact is, I doubt I would want or need a new keyboard as I really like the way Genos is laid out.

Also regarding upgrades, the biggest deal to me is the ability to upgrade voices and styles, and for me my Genos is the best thing out there.

[DerekA]

If I understand what you want correctly, you can easily do this.

Plug a midi cable from MIDI Out to MIDI In. Then on the MIDI setup, switch off local control. You can set it up so that your key presses are routed to song parts 1-16. Using the mixing console you can put any voice, effect, pan, tune etc onto those 16 parts. Bingo - up to 16 layered voices at once, and use the balance sliders to mix them as you want.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

......Yamaha is mostly concerned about fixing software bugs and flaws. Once the OS is stable and generally bug free Yamaha seems to put new features and/or new functions on hold ......
..... Ultimately we are at the mercy of Yamaha whether it's bug fixes or new features .....

What's three or four more years right?   I guess we can start by saving our pennies. Not a very comforting thought I know.  

Mike   

Mike,
my sincere thanks for a very good posting.  In my case in 4 years I will probably have moved to the happy hunting grounds     .
As much as I dislike manufacturers putting products on the market that do not work to specification and must be updated (and those who out of ignorance or because it is in their interest to do do)  claim the product is the best ever even when it is more or less unuseable,  I feel it must must be recognized YAMAHA came out with 1.2 and 1.3  with a short delay.  Fortunately my dealer has said,  "pay when you feel Genos has been updated to a level that satisfies you," which so far is not the case. Of course this attitude is not what one can expect from a dealer. Applying this absurd  principle they would all go broke. I am granted this extraordinary privilege because my family is their oldest customer.  My father bought our Steinway grand form them  96 years ago and I bought the first electronic instrument the Hammond Piper from them 50 years ago and then everything from the 5700 onward

"Yamaha is mostly concerned about fixing software bugs and flaws."  I believe you are right and YAMAHA has chosen the right priorities in doing what you say.

Cheers

Kaarlo   

[ton37]

Perhaps one can learn from the past. Has Yamaha ever published a groundbreaking update from Tyros 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5? I guess not, but other brands act the same ( as I remembered from Technics 800,1000,2000,3000,5000,6000,6500, 7000 etc. Only updates for maintenance. I don't expect anything else and I can live with that. I guess that the (internal) hardware of the Genos is pico bello, at least needed probably some software-updates for minor bugs. And they will come, for sure.

Now they focus on Genos 2.

For those who playing the keyboards, enjoy it:'The future is created by what you do today, not tomorrow'
Greeting Ton

[Bachus]

If I understand what you want correctly, you can easily do this.

Plug a midi cable from MIDI Out to MIDI In. Then on the MIDI setup, switch off local control. You can set it up so that your key presses are routed to song parts 1-16. Using the mixing console you can put any voice, effect, pan, tune etc onto those 16 parts. Bingo - up to 16 layered voices at once, and use the balance sliders to mix them as you want.

Offcourse you can do that.. 
but since the setting for midi is global, its far from being flexible..

Thats why it works better with a laptop in between the midi...
So you can set up for flexibillity.. 

Your idea will work
But connecting midi out to midi in in general is not the best idea..

[Depo1964]

I'm hoping that Yamaha instruments (Genos) and Yamaha software (Cubase) work together on updates of both to create a seamless( okay I'm dreaming) integration.
The interface that Yamaha built between my XS-Rack and Cubase is pretty nice.

[Bachus]

I'm hoping that Yamaha instruments (Genos) and Yamaha software (Cubase) work together on updates of both to create a seamless( okay I'm dreaming) integration.
The interface that Yamaha built between my XS-Rack and Cubase is pretty nice.

Indeed, is a super neat interface for performing and edditing
However,with the montage they took a differet road tough, its very sweet for recoring Montage in Cubase..

N Genos, it would be perfect to have a combination of these two...
But i dont think high emd cubase integration on Genos is a peiority for Yamaha

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.....Has Yamaha ever published a groundbreaking update from Tyros 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5? I guess not, but other brands act the same ( as I remembered from Technics 800,1000,2000,3000,4000,6000,6500, 7000 etc. Only updates for maintenance. I don't expect anything else and I can live with that.....

Hi Ton,
Your description of the past is very accurate both for Tyros and Technics so your forecast for the future will also be correct. Actually the Genos is pretty good as to the hardware side. I have no wish-list in that department. Software is a bit different. 1.1  was problematic,  1.2 and 1.3 updates fixed most issues  rather quickly and the ones still left will be taken care of, the question is just when as they seem to be of no importance at least for those who are not gigging.

Cheers

Kaarlo