No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Kaarlo.

A few years back, I did a gig in "open air" but in the shade, which was fine. I set up my MOX8 and SoundCraft mixer. The mixer was at the right end of my keyboard, about eight inches away and angled, so I could adjust sound with my right hand, on the fly (no pun intended!). The gig location was along the shores of a large river, with copious numbers of seagulls. After the setup, I went to the washroom and came back to notice a huge puddle of seagull do-do between the upper octave of the MOX8 and mixer - on the ground! The seagull had a major dump but missed my gear. How? I don't know. I was astounded! If the seagull had hit the upper octaves of the MOX8, it would have been unplayable, and I would have ended up with a repair bill of around $400 (CDN). I made the decision that night to refuse any open air gigs. The next day, our band leader went out and bought one of those portable 10' x 10' tents.

[beekay]

Hi Folks
If you find it difficult to see the Genos tilted screen why not try raising your seat a little - it works for me.

Hi Audrey
I raised the question of increasing the light level with my dealer and it made no difference to the screen - it only appears to increase the light on the buttons (registrations etc).

Regards
Brian

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.....increasing the light ...... made no difference to the screen - it only appears to increase the light on the buttons .....

Regards
Brian

Hi Brian,

You are 100 % correct. On my Genos raising the luminosity of the buttons,   which is very useful indoors in strong lighting, does not  affect the display.
The problem with the buttons is they are not recessed like on the Tyros 5  but sticking out so  they are flooded with the light of the sun outdoors even in the evening when it stands low. Therefore raising their luminosity does not help enough.  You will as Lee Batchelor has pointed out need to be standing under some sort of roof. Even a thin white tent is ample remedy. 

I  was playing outside on Sunday  and could not see which button was lit unless I put my hand  over them.
But that was the same on Tyros 5 and all my complaints  about Genos always have the Tyros  as  reference.   

Cheers

Kaarlo

[markstyles]

I quickly got used to flat Genos display and like it.  I was always worried a bit about Tyros display, one small accident would have broken display off, or locked in an up position.

One less thing to break in my opinion.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I quickly got used to flat Genos display and like it.  I was always worried a bit about Tyros display, one small accident would have broken display off, or locked in an up position.

One less thing to break in my opinion.

"One less thing to break in my opinion." Correct.  Strange, maybe one should have been worried, all the Tyros keyboards had the tilt feature. Never was worried  and nothing ever happened during a whole decade.
There were out door situations where the tilt  really helped. But it could break and it adds weight.

Had an outdoors gig yesterday. 2 - 10 PM. No direct sunshine as trees gave shade, but the Genos display was "looking" at a cloudless sky. No way to see anything on the display without  the carbon fiber  shield. The Tyros tilt screen never "looked" at the sky.

Cheers

Kaarlo   

[travlin-easy]

Kaarlos, you can always tilt the keyboard, which is what we did many years ago to solve that problem. I used rubber door-stop wedges placed under the back edge of the keyboard and held to the stand arms with heavy rubber bands.

Gary

[Gloria]

Kaarlos, I must say - - your picture of a "one man band" really made me do a fast "double take!"   

[ton37]

Kaarlos, you can always tilt the keyboard, which is what we did many years ago to solve that problem. I used rubber door-stop wedges placed under the back edge of the keyboard and held to the stand arms with heavy rubber bands.

Gary

Right Gary, that's just what I meant in my OP  . I was wondering 'if' that could help, how much your keyboard can be tilted without losing a comfortable keyboard handling, greetings Ton

[travlin-easy]

Ton, I have tiled them up to 30 degrees from horizontal with no playing problems.

Gary

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Everybody,
to-day there was no sun. Made attached photos.  Came to the conclusion the umbrella was best so if one big sturdy is available on the site the problem is solved. If not one needs something in the direction of

http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/index.php?p=galleryGalleryShow&iId=791&iIdLink=553&iType=1

with a canvas suspended between modified parts for the upper keyboard.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[attachment deleted by admin]

[gerarde]

Just cut a small cardboard box like I did and yhen you do not have to tilt.
It works perfect in the sun.

Gerard

[Lee Batchelor]

Gerard, how do you prevent the the box from blowing away in the wind? I know you can use Velcro, but I don't want to glue one side of Velcro to a $6,000 keyboard! It would destroy the resale value .

[Lee Batchelor]

Kaarlo, are you really comparing apples to apples in those two pics? Do they not represent two keyboards under totally different lighting conditions? Personally, I refuse to play outside unless there is cover (shade). All my clients and band mates know this .

[gerarde]

Lee,
It is only about 3 inches high.
I have not had any problems with wind so far.
I will try and take a pic of it so you can see it.
I still have to spray paint it black yet.

Gerard

[Lee Batchelor]

Great, thanks Gerard!

[gerarde]

Lee,
Here is the pic.
Crude but works fine.
Get a box about 12 inches in width so it fits.

Gerard

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Gerard, how do you prevent the the box from blowing away in the wind? I know you can use Velcro, but I don't want to glue one side of Velcro to a $6,000 keyboard! It would destroy the resale value .

Hi Lee,
I have been using adhesive Velcro on all my Tyros keyboards (and now on the Genos Nr.1 that the dealer took back)   for a decade and the military drones we manufacture and removing it by pulling it gently back over itself, not upward, has so far never left any marks which attests to the fact that the YAMAHA  surface finish is of very high quality, e.g. sticks to the housing even when Velcro has been sitting on it for several years.

Now this is the Velcro they sell in Finland, but I believe it is the same all everywhere as to the type of tack glue they use. To make sure you might want to stick it to the bottom of your Genos for a while to test.
I know from our "Manufacturers' serial number stickers"  there are glues that will not un-stick without damaging he underlying surface which is required by our laws, but I have so far not encountered Velcro with that strong a glue.

"Are you really comparing apples to apples in those two pics? Do they not represent two keyboards under totally different lighting conditions?" 
Good question.  The pictures were done within 15 minutes of each other so the lighting conditions were the same. You are correct that one was the Tyros with the tilt screen tilted under an umbrella and the Genos was without an umbrella because I was not physically able to shield it with an umbrella and take a picture as the screen cannot not be tilted.   My idea was to show that in MHO you do need a shield in both cases, be it a tilt or non tilt display.

It would have been a good idea to take a photo of the Tyros without the umbrella also.  I took for granted that Tyros owners know if you keep it flat "looking at the sky" even if there is no sun you cannot read it, which is true for most any display, even my MacBook Pro (17-inch, Mid 2010) which I bought at that time because it was better that anything else for adjusting our drones out on the shooting ranges.

My idea was to prove what you have stated I feel is correct:  at outdoors gigs you need a tent or whatever.

I also liked the two keyboards standing close to one-another making Tyros look clumsy compared to Genos. And as fact weight and size (and sliders)   have been for me the the reasons that have weight (pun intended ))

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Lee Batchelor]

Great info, Kaarlo. I didn't know we could get Velcro with a non-residue glue. I'll check into that. Thanks !

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Lee,
Here is the pic.
Crude but works fine.
Get a box about 12 inches in width so it fits.

Gerard

Thanks Gerard,
one picture tells more than - was it a hundred or a thousand ?  words.  Will build one and keep you posted.  Just to make sure I order the correct size carbon plates,  would you mind listing all the dimensions of your box (roundings excluded) ? I am under the impression I already sent a posting about this, but as so often I seem to push the wrong button 

Cheers

Kaarlo

[gerarde]

Karlo,

Dimensions are 12 wide by 5 high by 6 deep.
The box was bigger but I just kept cutting it until it was right for me.

Gerard

[zionip]

Gerard's cardboard box is very nice low-cost solution for Genos non-tiltable screen under strong overhead light.  The only shortcoming of such a solution is its portability.

This prompted me to start a proof of concept product test of a relatively low cost, US$6.95, 9.7" Tablet FPV Monitor Sunshade Sun Hood for DJI Phantom 3 Transmitter Remote Controller Quick Release iPad Holder Clip Mount - White:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWC5MBM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This product is in white color outside (so it does not get hot as quickly as the black ones under the sun), and is made of Faux leather outside, with dull black velvet like material inside to prevent light reflection.  It uses Velcro design, easy to install and disassemble:


This sunhood can be folded into 12 x 7 x 3/8 inch for easy transport and storage, weighs about 240g (8.46 oz):


Player's view of the sunhood covering Genos screen, assembled sunhood dimensions: 10 (W) x 7 1/8 (D) x 7 inch (H):


Side view:


If you prefer a black sunhood for your Genos for indoor playing, you can find product similar to the following:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-7-Inch-Monitor-Foldable-Sunshade-Sun-Shade-Hood-for-DJI-Inspire-1-iPad-Air/311755091707?hash=item48960d2efb

Thanks,
Paul

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

The Genos screen is easy to use without the need for a tilting screen. It looks a lot nicer and works fine without tilting at all. Get used to the screen and you will be happy,.  Lloyd

Hi Lloyd,
Thanks for an interesting posting.  "Get used to the screen and you will be happy". There seem to be a lot of Genos owners who are not happy, but maybe there is something wrong with their eyesight. 

I believe those who have been on this site for some time  may wonder that whenever someone claims Genos in some respect is still not perfect, someone will post he is wrong, it is just a matter of getting used to it.    I have had mine since January and still have not, so be warned, getting used may take more time than anticipated.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Lee Batchelor]

Neat product, Paul. I wonder if it would block some of the view to my music stand that contains all my charts.

[Pianoman]

Come on guys.
Let's just admit for once that a tilt screen would have been better.

We are missing the point here, namely that it has come down to needing cardboard
boxes and velcro on such a beautiful instrument.

And depending on whether one is sitting or standing when playing, the box would have
to be high enough in order not to hinder vision and freedom of movement on the screen.

What would the audience think?

Pieces of cardboard and Velcro on a 4000€ instrument? Really?

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Fred Smith]

Long ago, Gary Diamond posted that he insists a canopy be provided for all his outdoor gigs. Seeing the screen was only one issue. In addition, both the keyboard and the performer need protection from the elements.

It's still the best advice for outdoor gigs. And it came long before non-tiltable screens.

Fred

[Pianoman]

Long ago, Gary Diamond posted that he insists a canopy be provided for all his outdoor gigs. Seeing the screen was only one issue. In addition, both the keyboard and the performer need protection from the elements.

It's still the best advice for outdoor gigs. And it came long before non-tiltable screens.

Fred

Even more reason to have a tiltable screen.

My feeling is that we shall see a return of the tilt screen on the next Genos.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Lee Batchelor]

If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen .

[beykock]

Never heard any complaints from PSR S users their screen is not tiltable.

Is it a " tiltable " problem or is it more the touch screen of the Genos ?

I remember many Tyros players always liked the knobs and did not want to have a touch screen. IMHO.

Babette

[Fred Smith]

Even more reason to have a tiltable screen.

My feeling is that we shall see a return of the tilt screen on the next Genos.

How is a tiltable screen going to protect you or your equipment from the elements?

How is a tiltable screen going to be easier to read in bright sunlight?

I don't see Genos ever having a tiltable screen.

Fred

[Pianoman]

If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen .

I am sure that Yamaha will take that into account and build a robust screen support.

Best Regards.
Abby.