Is it possible to export Packs FROM the keyboard TO Yamaha Expansion Manager?

[valio7771]

Hi everyone!

So, I'm having the following problem:
I recently had to change my computer because my old one got broken and lost a lot of data due to a faulty hard drive.
I've installed the latest version of YEM on my new computer, and now I want to get my Expansion Packs from my Tyros 5 into YEM, in the same state that they are currently installed on the keyboard, because I end up editing them heavily during the last 3 years of work with the keyboard (edit individual sounds within a Pack, removed the ones I don't need, merged or grouped few different Packs into one,..etc) in manner that I find more convenient for me to use them. Since YEM can't see/read what Packs are currently installed just by connecting the keyboard through USB, now I can't find a way to export my custom packs from my keyboard back to the YEM, so I can keep edit them from the current point, if I need to do so.

And apparently I've also lost all the original .ppf files for all the initial Packs with my old computer, most of which packs I got from other fellow Yamaha players that I communicate on different forums or randomly found on internet, and now (even though it would be an absolute nightmare to match the exact same order of each sound with it's individual MSB# and LSB#, because I've used many of those sounds in my styles and MIDI's) I can't compile them from scratch.
YEM does not accept .ppi files, which is the only copy of my Packs installation I have on a USB stick, of which I'm not so sure how recent is judging by the 'last edit' date.

I am a technical person and I usually find my way around such issues, but there maybe something crucial that I'm missing here, or I'm overthinking the whole situation by looking at it as something more complicated than it actually is, or there is really NO way to do that (of what I'm very afraid of).
Any help is highly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

Sincerely,

Valentin

[jwyvern]

hi
valentin,
In the My Packs screen does your Ty5 show at top left, if so click on it and the pack data should transfer from Tyros into YEM.
If not click on the plus sign next to Install Target, then Search Instruments and YEM should find and highlight Tyros provided it is connected and switched on. Then click on the latter.
John

[Bill]

Hi Valentin

Although John is more knowledgeable that I am, I did not think it possible to export packs from the Tyros back into the YEM.
Yes you can copy the styles, pads and registrations form the Tyros, however you will not be able to copy the Wav Elements to use again.

Regards

Bill

[valio7771]

Thanks John,

I really wish if it was that simple...

YEM is empty after the fresh installation.
After 'Search Instruments' under 'Install Target' YEM just finds that there is Tyros5 connected to it, but appears as it has nothing installed on it whatsoever.
Even after importing of a newly created TYROS5_InstrumentInfo.n27 file on the keyboard, I was hoping to trigger YEM to figure out what's installed on the keyboard, but it made no change at all, it still won't import the installed packs.

Valentin

[valio7771]

....I did not think it possible to export packs from the Tyros back into the YEM.....

I'm afraid you're right, Bill.

That is a MASSIVE flaw in general way how Yamaha tries to push everything through YEM.
It's like if you have an iPhone/iPad, and if you sync your device with your new PC/Mac, you will lose everything you've bought so far (apps, music, books...etc), this is just ridiculous.
I cannot find a single logical reason why there should be 'one way flow' between the keyboard and the software? It can't be a 'Copyright' thing since one of the perks of using YEM was a way to edit and share your sounds with others, so it couldn't be that.

WHY THOUGH? 

[pjd]

Hello Valentin --

I feel your pain. 

I'm not a Tyros 5 user, but the first thought that came to mind is to back-up everything on your Tyros 5 immediately. If I were in the same situation, I would get a new USB flash drive and manually copy everything that I could find on the Tyros 5 (Owner's Manual, page 32). I'd look in the USER drive and HD drive.

Another possible route is the Yamaha Music Downloader application for direct transfer over USB.

As mentioned, this won't save the waveform data (samples). However, it might save the edits that you made.

Hope this helps and please keep your chin up -- pj

[valio7771]

Hi pj,

I'm not using any styles or Registrations from the packs, I only use the sounds from those...and it's all about that.
I wrote to Yamaha support, I'm curious to see what they can say about it.
I have multiple backup of everything else on various drives.

Cheers

Valentin

[DerekA]

I cannot find a single logical reason why there should be 'one way flow' between the keyboard and the software?

You're talking about a scenario where you have an 'empty' YEM on your PC. If you could go backwards, it would mean taking the data stored in the keyboard memory and recreating the complete structure of packs, voices, styles, and wave samples together with plumbing to associate them properly with one another. Depending on how the data is transformed and compressed by YEM when an install file is created, this might not be possible.

[Joe H]

Valentin,

If I understand your problem correctly, you say you edited the sounds on your Tyros.  That means they are User Voices... is that correct?

If that is the case the only way you can duplicate your edits is to load the .ppf / .cpf file into YEM,.  Open Voice Set for each sound you have edited and make the same edits (match-up) on the Common Parameters in the YEM Voice Editor and re-install the pack(s).  I don't see any short cut.  Once you do that the created Installation File will have the edits in the installed packs... then save the Installation file and make a backup copy.

Joe H

[valio7771]

If I understand your problem correctly, you say you edited the sounds on your Tyros.  That means they are User Voices... is that correct?....

Hi Joe,

Unfortunately all the sounds are waveforms that I edited on YEM before, they are not  User Voices.
I'm clueless why didn't I made a copy of my sound packs in any different format, other that .ppi, which is....kind of a backup, but not a particularly useful in this case. I guess...you live and learn, as it is with most things in life.

NOW, there's a silver lining in the story!
I managed to trace back some the places from where I initially downloaded those sound packs, but it is a jungle out there, and finding what I downloaded 3 years ago, with different names, is just an absolute mayhem. But still, with enough persistence I already managed to find about 60% of what I've lost, which great... but still is less than half the story in the 'grand scheme' because even if I manage to find everything, I'll still have one hell of a job to order every single sound's MSB/LSB in the same exact order as they are in the keyboard.  

To put this in perspective, currently I have 6 packs installed on the Tyros, 4 of which are full with 127 sounds in them, the other 2 are about half full. This doesn't mean I use every single one of those sounds, but I have over 300 MIDI's and more than 100 user styles that are using some of those sounds, and there is NO way I remember which sound from which pack is used in which particular channel in a particular MIDI file or a style. Of coarse I can re-sound on-the-fly, but it won't be pretty if a saxophone sound starts to play instead of drums, or vice versa. I'm playing 5 nights a week, so.....yeah.
Korg is light years ahead of Yamaha in this aspect.

Wish me luck, haha

[Joe H]

valio7771,

You can still do as I suggested by opening the Voice Set on the T5 and look at the settings.  If you can retrieve all the packs, you can rebuild those
Voices to the same or similar settings... unless you did your editing at the element level... then you are out of luck.



Joe H

[valio7771]

Joe,

I LOVE YOU, MAN !!! (in the most purest and humane meaning of this sentence)

I never thought Voice Set would be able to 'extract' the sound from the expansion pack and let me save it wherever I want, but apparently it does.

Cannot thank you enough for your advice!!!

Regards,

Valentin

ps. Well, my joy was short lived.
Just got back from an experiment to save couple of sounds on a USB drive and import them in a pack with YEM, but apparently Voice Set does not save them as .uvn/.uvd, it saves them as .vce which YEM does not accept. Although they are saved on the keyboard's HD or USB drive, those sounds cannot be assigned to anything else than Left, R1, R2, R3 because they do not have a LSB/MSB#.
It's still something, because I do use few sounds to play on the keyboard, but that's very limiting in therms of usability of those sounds in general.
Damn...

[Joe H]

Nope, you cannot import the Voice Set file into YEM.  What I was suggesting is that you can copy the Voice set settings displayed on the keyboard screen and match them up in the YEM Voice Editor COMMON parameters (one Voice at a time).  Those Common parameters in the YEM Voice Editor are converted to a Voice File when the pack is installed on your keyboard.  As I said above... There is NO short cut (I'm afraid).



Joe H

[pjd]

Nope, you cannot import the Voice Set file into YEM. 

In the wild idea department... In case someone wants to hack some code... 

The VCE file is SMF. A program could read the SMF and translate the CC/Sy*** messages to the equivalent parameter definitions in a UVF (XML) file suitable for YEM.

Enough acronyms? 

Take care -- pj

[Joe H]

OK digital engineer... please give an example of how to convert a .vce file to a .UVF file. Is that a quicker way of doing things? I have about 400 custom Voices to program using Voice Set and then Import into YEM. (and BTW... what is XML)

Does this mean I could load a custom Voice and capture the sy*** strings and everything else in MixMaster MIDI Monitor (as a SMF)... then convert it to a UVN?

workarounds, workarounds, and more workarounds!



Joe H

[pjd]

A VCE file is already a Standard MIDI file. Rename the extension to MID, then look inside with a DAW.

Then, Google "XML".  Open a UVF file with a text editor. Look inside. You'll see where the Voice Set parameters are stored and what they look like. It's structured text.

The conversion idea is to write a program to recognize the MIDI CC and Sy*** events in the VCE file and generate the Voice Set parameter definitions in XML. It's the inverse process to what YEM (or whatever) does to generate a VCE file from UVF.

-- pj

[Joe H]

pj,

So... you are just presenting a concept... there is no .vce to XML converter program. I understand that the .vce is a SMF but it sounds like this wouldn't work for the PSR series. The Tyros and Genos wave forms are stored in YEM but not the PSR S series.  I assume the UVN file has the wave number/information in it as well as the Element settings for the YEM Editor so YEM knows which Voice it is... and loads that Voice wave(s) and sets both the Element parameters and Common parameters.

Also from what you describe, converting a SMF to a UVN file one at a time would be about the same amount of work as setting the Common parameters manually in YEM.

I'm I wrong about this.   

Joe H

[pjd]

So... you are just presenting a concept...

Hi Joe --

Yep, I acknowledged this right up front. ("In case someone wants to hack some code... ")

The translation should work for any S-series arranger that is YEM-compatible as well as Tyros 5 and Genos. That's the charm of Yamaha's UVF format. (Not "UVN".)

The proposal is for a program to make the translation. If people want to get their hands dirty and learn a lot about MIDI, SMF and UVF, this would be a good project. One could do the translation manually, but yikes, the labor would be tedious, especially if there are tens or hundreds of files to be converted.

The waveform information is problematic even on Tyros 5 and Genos. The info distributed with YEM is embedded in existing UVF files and the waveforms are frequently only identified by number, not a human-readable name. Further, only UVF files for legacy voices are distributed. So, I expect the VCE to UVF converter to be somewhat incomplete.

Just brainstorming, even a VCE dumper would be useful -- something to display the contents of a VCE file in a readable form, making it easier to manually re-enter the information through Voice Set.

All the best -- pj

[pjd]

Michael B's StyleDump program is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  It dumps MIDI and VCE files as well as styles, because heck, they're all SMF!

Here is an old dump of the JazzyArtist VCE to show the kind of information which is stored there. StyleDump's format is kind of wonky, so one needs to know what NRPN MSB/LSB values are. But, they all map to Voice Set parameters. (And UVF parameters, too.)

I can't thank Michael enough for this program -- pj

Voice dump: JazzyArtist

ID     Delay  Measure  Ch  Type
000022 5      1:01:000     Metadata  Time Signature:  4/ 4
000030 5      1:01:010     Metadata  Tempo:  120
000037 5      1:01:015 1   Midi      CC  Bank Select MSB Value: 8
000041 5      1:01:020 1   Midi      CC  Bank Select LSB Value: 39
000045 5      1:01:025 1   Midi      Program Change:  6
000048 5      1:01:030 1   Midi      CC  Release Value: 104
000052 5      1:01:035 1   Midi      CC  NRPN MSB Value: 1
000056 5      1:01:040 1   Midi      CC  NRPN LSB Value: 102
000060 5      1:01:045 1   Midi      CC  MSB Data Entry Value: 64
000064 5      1:01:050 1   Midi      CC  LSB Data Entry Value: 0
000068 5      1:01:055 1   Midi      CC  Attack Value: 64
000072 5      1:01:060 1   Midi      CC  NRPN MSB Value: 1
000076 5      1:01:065 1   Midi      CC  NRPN LSB Value: 100
000080 5      1:01:070 1   Midi      CC  MSB Data Entry Value: 64
000084 5      1:01:075 1   Midi      CC  LSB Data Entry Value: 0
000088 5      1:01:080 1   Midi      CC  NRPN MSB Value: 1
000092 5      1:01:085 1   Midi      CC  NRPN LSB Value: 8
000096 5      1:01:090 1   Midi      CC  MSB Data Entry Value: 61
000100 5      1:01:095 1   Midi      CC  LSB Data Entry Value: 0
000104 5      1:02:004 1   Midi      CC  NRPN MSB Value: 1
000108 5      1:02:009 1   Midi      CC  NRPN LSB Value: 9
000112 5      1:02:014 1   Midi      CC  MSB Data Entry Value: 64
000116 5      1:02:019 1   Midi      CC  LSB Data Entry Value: 0
000120 5      1:02:024 1   Midi      CC  NRPN MSB Value: 1
000124 5      1:02:029 1   Midi      CC  NRPN LSB Value: 10
000128 5      1:02:034 1   Midi      CC  MSB Data Entry Value: 64
000132 5      1:02:039 1   Midi      CC  LSB Data Entry Value: 0
000136 5      1:02:044     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , MW Filter Control= 64
000147 5      1:02:049     Sy***     XG  Part 00 MW offset Level=  64
000158 5      1:02:054     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , MW LFO PMod Depth= 6
000169 5      1:02:059     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , MW LFO FMod Depth= 0
000180 5      1:02:064     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , MW MW LFO FMod Depth=  25
000191 5      1:02:069     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , Mono(0)/Poly mode= 1
000202 5      1:02:074     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 04 5A F7 
000214 5      1:02:079 1   Midi      CC  Harmonic Content(timbre) Value: 64
000218 5      1:02:084 1   Midi      CC  Brightness Value: 64
000222 5      1:02:089 1   Midi      CC  Portamento Time Value: 0
000226 5      1:02:094     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , Velocity Sense Depth= 64
000237 5      1:03:003     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , Velocity Sense Offset= 64
000248 5      1:03:008     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 05 3F F7 
000260 5      1:03:013     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 08 03 06 41 F7 
000272 5      1:03:018     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , EQ Bass Frequency= 24
000283 5      1:03:023     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , EQ Bass Gain= 48
000294 5      1:03:028     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , EQ Treble Frequency= 37
000305 5      1:03:033     Sy***     XG  Part#= 0 , EQ Treble Gain= 80
000316 5      1:03:038     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 51 04 00 00 02 07 00 F7 
000330 5      1:03:043     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 05 23 F7 
000342 5      1:03:048     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 02 10 F7 
000354 5      1:03:053     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 03 00 F7 
000366 5      1:03:058     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 04 00 F7 
000378 5      1:03:063 1   Midi      CC  Reverb Send Level Value: 26
000382 5      1:03:068 1   Midi      CC  Chorus Send Level Value: 0
000386 5      1:03:073     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 08 7F F7 
000398 5      1:03:078     Sy***     DSP Variation Off
000410 5      1:03:083     Sy***     XG Effect2 DSP 2 Insertion Effect
000422 5      1:03:088     Sy***     XG Effect2 DSP 2 Insertion Parameter 10= 0
000433 5      1:03:093     Sy***     F0 43 73 01 51 08 00 11 02 00 50 F7 

[Joe H]

pj,

Sorry for the typos.  Since I don't own a Tyros, I have never worked with these files. Thanks for all the information... I'll work on it.

Always something new to learn.



Joe H

[valio7771]

Whoa, vce is smf......mind=blown.

Never ever thought that there could've been any relation between those two....well, you learn something new every day.
I imagine if some of Yamaha's technicians are looking at this thread here, they'll be like "Damn, they cracked the code of vce" and they'll be on their way to develop different file structure for sounds, haha.
Jokes aside, that's a useful piece of knowledge, and if somebody could do some more code hacking, at least he would know from where to start.

Once upon a time, I used to have a Yamaha QX-3 Sequencer, and I had to manually write every single SY*** if I wanted to really 'juice' my PSR-620 and make it do things that where unthinkable if you where trying to use olny the keyboard itself. I used to remember the most frequent 10-15 exclusives I needed, and just tap them in in seconds, some of those Exclusives where as long as 8-9 double digits/letters. That was a fun time, and it felt so rewarding when everything worked as you where hoping in the end. But than I got PSR-2000 and everything got much more easier, and since than I got a lot lazy in that aspect. I used to 'speak' MIDI, everything I was listening, I was imagining it as it is written as series of controllers, values and exclusives, and I could recite the whole thing. Now I'm just a lazy a**, hehe.

Thanks for the info pj.

Valentin

[Joe H]

valio7771,

FYI... Our arrangers are just a bunch of MIDI sequencers.  The following file types are SMF

Style files (modified Type 0), Multi Pad files (Type 1). Voice Set files (Type 0), and of coarse songs files (Type 0) used by the on-board sequencer.

Joe H

[pjd]

Sorry for the typos. 

Hi Joe --

No problem! I'm trying to wrap up another software project, otherwise I'd deep dive this. More to come (eventually).

We can also add OTS to that list.

-- pj

[pjd]

Hi --

Here are the MIDI events to be found in a VCE file. Use of "Clavinova" Sy*** seems to be a legacy thing as well as the use of NRPN vs. CC. Similar information is found in OTS files.

The purpose of several Clavinova Sy*** events is unknown.

Hope someone finds this table useful. They could use the info to program a MIDI controller.

Take care -- pj

VCE file MIDI events (all events channel 1)

Type  Event#  Purpose                      Detail
----  ------  ---------------------------  -----------------------------
CC    0       Bank select MSB
CC    32      Bank select LSB
PC            Program change
CC    72      Release Time (GM2)

NRPN  1,102   EG Release                   All NPRN need Data Entry events

CC    73      Attack Time (GM2)

NRPN  1,100   EG Decay Time
NRPN  1,8     Vibrato Rate
NRPN  1,9     Vibrato Depth
NRPN  1,10    Vibrato Delay

Sy***         Part:0, MW Filter Control     F0 43 10 4C 08 00 1E 40 F7 
Sy***         Part:0, MW Offset Level       F0 43 10 4C 0A 00 40 40 F7 
Sy***         Part:0, MW LFO PMod Depth     F0 43 10 4C 08 00 20 06 F7 
Sy***         Part:0, MW LFO FMod Depth     F0 43 10 4C 08 00 21 00 F7 
Sy***         Part:0, MW                    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 22 19 F7 
Sy***         Part:0, Mono/Poly             F0 43 10 4C 08 00 05 01 F7 
Sy***         Part:0, MW Filter Control     F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 04 5A F7 

CC     71     Harmonic Content (GM2)
CC     74     Brightness (GM2)
CC     5      Portamento Time (GM2)

Sy***         Part:0 Velocity Sense Depth   F0 43 10 4C 08 00 0C xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0 Velocity Sense Offset  F0 43 10 4C 08 00 0D xx F7 

Sy***         Unknown                       F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 05 3F F7 
Sy***         Unknown                       F0 43 73 01 50 08 03 06 41 F7 

Sy***         Part:0, EQ Bass Frequency     F0 43 10 4C 08 00 76 xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, EQ Bass Gain          F0 43 10 4C 08 00 72 xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, EQ Treble Frequency   F0 43 10 4C 08 00 77 xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, EQ Treble Gain        F0 43 10 4C 08 00 73 xx F7 

Sy***         Harmony/echo type             F0 43 73 01 51 04 00 00 yy yy yy F7
Sy***         Harmony/echo volume           F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 05 yy F7 
Sy***         Harmony/echo assign auto      F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 02 yy F7 
Sy***         Harmony/echo chord off        F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 03 yy F7 
Sy***         Harmony/echo touch limit      F0 43 73 01 50 04 00 04 yy F7 

CC     91     Reverb Send Level
CC     92     Chorus Send Level

Sy***         DSP effect ON/OFF             F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 08 xx F7 
Sy***         DSP Variation                 F0 43 73 01 50 08 00 01 xx F7 
Sy***         EFFECT2 DSP 2 Ins Effect      F0 43 10 4C 03 00 00 xx yy F7 
Sy***         EFFECTs DSP 2 Ins Param 1     F0 43 10 4C 03 00 02 xx F7 
Sy***         EFFECTs DSP 2 Ins Param 2     F0 43 10 4C 03 00 03 xx F7 
...           ...                           ...
Sy***         EFFECTs DSP 2 Ins Param 9     F0 43 10 4C 03 00 0A xx F7 
Sy***         EFFECTs DSP 2 Ins Param 10    F0 43 10 4C 03 00 20 xx F7
Sy***         EFFECTs DSP 2 Ins Param 11    F0 43 10 4C 03 00 25 xx F7
...           ...                           ...
Sy***         EFFECTs DSP 2 Ins Param 16    F0 43 10 4C 03 00 25 xx F7
 
Sy***         DSP effect variation value?   F0 43 73 01 51 08 00 11 yy yy yy F7

Sy***         Part:0, CAT Filter Control    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 4E xx F7
Sy***         Part:0, MW Offset Level Cont  F0 43 10 4C 0A 00 42 xx F7
Sy***         Part:0, CAT LFO PMod Depth    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 50 xx F7
Sy***         Part:0, CAT LFO FMod Depth    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 51 xx F7
Sy***         Part:0, CAT LFO AMod Depth    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 52 xx F7

Sy***         Part:0, AC1 Low Pass Filter   F0 43 10 4C 08 00 5B xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, AC1 Offset Level      F0 43 10 4C 0A 00 44 xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, AC1 LFO Pmod Depth    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 5D xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, AC1 LFO Fmod Depth    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 5E xx F7 
Sy***         Part:0, AC1 LFO Amod Depth    F0 43 10 4C 08 00 5F xx F7 

Sy***         Unknown               F0 43 73 01 51 08 00 12 03 0D 00 02 F7 
Sy***         Unknown               F0 43 73 01 51 08 00 12 03 0E 00 44 F7 
Sy***         Unknown               F0 43 73 01 51 08 00 12 03 0F 00 08 F7 

[pjd]

Hi --

Next up is a snippet from the UVF file AlohaGuitar.uvf. It shows the voiceSet, effectSet and information XML elements.

To make a mapping from VCE to UVF, one just needs to match up the VCE MIDI events in my last post with the UVF parameters shown below. Two of the mystery Clavinova Sy*** events probably match up with the partOctaveLeft and partOctaveRight parameters. (See http://dromeusik.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_17.html).

The voiceCommon XML element holds the actual voice programming, including the element definitions. I'm wondering if it's possible to sneak a UVF without voiceCommon into YEM's database? If that's possible, then we have a way to import VCE data into YEM. This would be a nice addition to Vali's YEM content explorer.

If YEM doesn't like an empty voiceCommon, then maybe a default (boilerplate) voiceCommon could be incorporated into the UVF as a placeholder?

I remember another forum member asking for a way to import VCE or VCE-like info into a YEM expansion pack. Probably other folks need this, too.

Have fun -- pj

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<uvf:voiceData version="1.2" xmlns:uvf="http://www.yamaha.com/uvf" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
 <voiceType>EKB_LEGACY</voiceType>
 <voiceCommon editable="ON" xsi:type="uvf:VOICE_COMMON_EKB_LEGACY">

 ...

 </voiceCommon>
 <voiceSet>
  <volume>98</volume>
  <touchSenseDepth>64</touchSenseDepth>
  <touchSenseOffset>67</touchSenseOffset>
  <partOctaveLeft>1</partOctaveLeft>
  <partOctaveRight>-1</partOctaveRight>
  <monoPoly>1</monoPoly>
  <portamentoTime>40</portamentoTime>
  <mwLpfControl>64</mwLpfControl>
  <mwAmpControl>64</mwAmpControl>
  <mwPmodDepth>11</mwPmodDepth>
  <mwFmodDepth>0</mwFmodDepth>
  <mwAmodDepth>0</mwAmodDepth>
  <catLpfControl>64</catLpfControl>
  <catAmpControl>64</catAmpControl>
  <catPmodDepth>6</catPmodDepth>
  <catFmodDepth>0</catFmodDepth>
  <catAmodDepth>0</catAmodDepth>
  <panelSustain>100</panelSustain>
  <eqLowFreq>16</eqLowFreq>
  <eqLowGain>60</eqLowGain>
  <eqHiFreq>42</eqHiFreq>
  <eqHiGain>64</eqHiGain>
  <brightness>64</brightness>
  <resonance>64</resonance>
  <egAttack>64</egAttack>
  <egDecay>64</egDecay>
  <egRelease>64</egRelease>
  <vibratoDepth>67</vibratoDepth>
  <vibratoSpeed>64</vibratoSpeed>
  <vibratoDelay>66</vibratoDelay>
  <harmonyType>0</harmonyType>
  <harmonyVolume>100</harmonyVolume>
  <harmonyAssignPart>0</harmonyAssignPart>
  <harmonyCodeNote>0</harmonyCodeNote>
  <harmonyTouchLimit>0</harmonyTouchLimit>
 </voiceSet>
 <effectSet>
  <reverbSend>32</reverbSend>
  <chorusSend>0</chorusSend>
  <dspOnOff>ON</dspOnOff>
  <dspDepth>30</dspDepth>
  <dspVariationOnOff>OFF</dspVariationOnOff>
  <dspVariationParameter>9</dspVariationParameter>
  <specList>needsInsertionEffect</specList>
  <insertionEffect>
   <typeMsb>21</typeMsb>
   <typeLsb>0</typeLsb>
   <prm1>10</prm1>
   <prm2>80</prm2>
   <prm3>10</prm3>
   <prm4>78</prm4>
   <prm5>64</prm5>
   <prm6>0</prm6>
   <prm7>0</prm7>
   <prm8>0</prm8>
   <prm9>0</prm9>
   <prm10>30</prm10>
   <prm11>0</prm11>
   <prm12>0</prm12>
   <prm13>28</prm13>
   <prm14>64</prm14>
   <prm15>46</prm15>
   <prm16>64</prm16>
  </insertionEffect>
 </effectSet>
 <information>
  <modelName>Genos</modelName>
  <voiceName>AlohaGuitar</voiceName>
  <voiceMsb>0</voiceMsb>
  <voiceLsb>118</voiceLsb>
  <voicePcNum>26</voicePcNum>
  <icon>T329</icon>
  <originalFormat>Genos:000:118:026</originalFormat>
 </information>
</uvf:voiceData>

[pjd]

Joe asked me a few questions by PM and I thought that the answer would help other folks, too.

-- pj

Good news! You already have a few hundred UVF files. When YEM installs, it stores UVF files for Tyros 5 and Genos in the directories:

C:\Program Files (x86)\YAMAHA\Expansion Manager\voices\genos
C:\Program Files (x86)\YAMAHA\Expansion Manager\voices\tyros5

The instrument directories are subdivided into DRUM_KIT and EKB_LEGACY. EKB_LEGCY contains the legacy normal voices. Further subdirectories are Hidden, so you'll need to tell Windows that you want to see Hidden files. The subdirectories are also Read-Only.

The other place to explore is:

C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Local\Yamaha\Expansion Manager\Packs

That's where your expansion packs are stored. "XXX" is your user name. The pack directory and file names are long strings of hexadecimal characters (called a Global Uniquie Identifier, or GUID). There are three kinds of hidden files, .index, .serial and .catalog, which remember YEM's database structure.

UVF files are in the pack database, but you'll have to work a little bit to identify them. The .catalog file helps. BTW, the "." character is important in those hidden file names. Vali's YEM Content Explorer uses these files to find the content files.

If you don't want to open XML in a text editor, I recommend XML Notepad. It knows about XML structure and makes it easy to navigate around inside of an XML file. XML Notepad also lets you edit values and the document structure.

[valio7771]

Good news! You already have a few hundred UVF files. When YEM installs, it stores UVF files for Tyros 5 and Genos in the directories:

C:\Program Files (x86)\YAMAHA\Expansion Manager\voices\genos
C:\Program Files (x86)\YAMAHA\Expansion Manager\voices\tyros5

The instrument directories are subdivided into DRUM_KIT and EKB_LEGACY. EKB_LEGCY contains the legacy normal voices. Further subdirectories are Hidden, so you'll need to tell Windows that you want to see Hidden files. The subdirectories are also Read-Only.

Hey pj, thanks for elaborating on the subject of voice format structure.

Yes, it make much more sense if Style, Multi Pad files to be some kind of sequencer type, but VCE I was imagining it just as some kind of proprietary audio conversion, it's core as some sort of sound wave sample file. And as much as I'm understanding from those voice dumps that you kindly provided, that is just instruction to the sound module, detailed description of the attached parameters to the sound in particular, but not the sound career itself (like the 0's and 1's of the sound wave structure), as I understood your words initially when you said that VCE is just a SMF file....yes it obviously has, and need to have bunch of MIDI commands in it, in order to work properly in the system, but the MIDI information ALONE could not produce any sound. That's why I got a bit confused.

I did stumble upon those UVF's while browsing the other day inside the YEM installation folder, and I was quite surprised when I saw all the Genos and Tyros5 sounds in there, and I wonder why they are there?
I also wonder if (somehow) I'm/was able to get a copy of my old content of the C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Local\Yamaha\Expansion Manager\Packs, and replace the current one with the copy of the old one, would YEM be able to get any practical information about the previous installation of my packs?

Valentin

[pjd]

I saw all the Genos and Tyros5 sounds in there, and I wonder why they are there?

I also wonder if (somehow) I'm/was able to get a copy of my old content of the C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Local\Yamaha\Expansion Manager\Packs, and replace the current one with the copy of the old one ... ?

Hello Valentin --

Sorry, I got carried away with the idea of recovering UVF from a VCE file generated by Tyros/Genos/PSR. 

As to the first question, Tyros 5/Genos users can edit the preset voices and create new custom voices starting from scratch or an existing preset voice. These UVFs are the basic voice info needed for editing. The distributed UVFs are only good for regular voices and drum kits, not SArt or SArt2.

The answer to your second question is "Yes." If you can recover the Packs directory and its contents from the hard drive, you can copy this directory as the Packs directory on your new machine and YEM's database will be restored, including the waveform files. At least two Forum members have done this successfully.

If you could recover your Packs directory, that would be sweet.  Is the old PC or hard drive still somewhat functional? If the PC won't boot from the drive, you could install the drive in a cheap USB hard drive enclosure (with its own power supply), plug the disk into the new PC, and see if you can read it.

Best of luck -- pj

[valio7771]

Hey pj,

Oh, I have tried many times to start the old hard drive externally, but it is as fried as a KFC chicken wing.
I have a hard drive docking station that I use, but the thing is not appearing anywhere. I guess the drive's logic board has let some smoke, and the only way to get any data from that hard it to take it to some king of forensic people.

Anyway, thank you for your effort to help!

Valentin

[wersianer]

Hi Valentin,

have you ever tried using Linux to access the hard drive?