Name Just One Or Two Things That Made You Buy A Genos

[Lhill1]

Hi Everyone

I love my Genos I have owned it since 20thNovember, I work on a 3 on 3 off rota and every day I spend at work I am thinking about the 3 days I am going to have giving my Genos some welly.

I previous to the Genos owned a PA4X and prior to that owned a PSRS900. I have never owned or had the opportunity to purchase a Tyros. As much as I wanted one I never could. So when the opportunity arose to allow me to buy a TOTL keyboard I was swayed towards the Korg 18 months ago over the tyros. However I found it highly frustrating , not user friendly and not quite the same user experience even as my old S900.

So having swapped in the PA4X a week or two after launch of Genos (with my local(ish) dealer who are amazing at what they do, and offer as much help as I need as and when required).
I brought the Genos home.

From the moment I turned it on to simply navigating the keyboard it was easy and a joy to use. It is simple and intuitive in its functions.
Now we get on to the sound of the machine, well as Im not privy to the actual sounds of functions of Tyros I am quoting this from a newbies point of view, I think its unbelievably amazing. From the nuances in the wood wind, dependant on the level of touch, to the outstanding Revo drums in the styles, it is truly an amazing keyboard with realism built in to the nth degree. Then we can move along to the Live controls well this can change the character of a voice in an instant and you have full access to any number of effects that again add charm and character to any music you play

If I was to pick one thing I love the most, and it is a close call between this and all the others I love equally its the flugelhorn. With the right amount of reverb it is a delight to play and listen to.

What I need is a week in a hall with a huge pa system....audience .....nah not bothered just a few pals to appreciate this fine amazing sounding keyboard

Hope you are all enjoying it as much as me

[stephenm52]

Here's my 2 pennies worth.  As Kaarlo wrote "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."    I had a T5-76 and a Pa4x at the same time, after playing the Pa4x which I still have I decided the T5 was no longer for me.   I have purchased a Genos and am very happy with it not only for great how it sounds but with all the live controls for gigs and the playlist feature,  it matches the Pa4x's live controls and Songbook.    Both have their strong points and I don't really find for my use that there is anything I don't like.    I like using the ice cream analogy somedays I like Vanilla other days I want something like Chocolate Chip Cookie dough ice cream.   

[Oymmot]

Hey all!
I maintain it's throwing money into a well if you change from Tyros 5 to Genos when it gets a far too high mid-price.
Sure, it's nice to buy a new instrument, but it's way too little to get for this money.
Is it then that you use your keyboard to play for audiences, then the first thing that has to be done is to change all the files used in their previous keyboard.
Here comes my sequel of what I have to do to use my previous files in Genos.
Now I only use my own midifiles for all public viewing.
The first thing I have to do to use for example the Playlist feature is that I have to sit and make about 800 Memory Banks, why?
Jo Genos is so constricted to use Playlist, so you have to make a Memory Bank for each title.
A bank for each title to make it easy to find titles without having to add 10 titles to each bank and then not easily see which titles are available in each bank.
It mentioned all the effects that can be added but who in the crowd takes advantage of these effects, no one likes to do well, so do not care.
Of the new sounds that came into Genos, are not all times better than the previous instrument sounds that have been found in previous models.
Some of the newer sounds are even worse than the ones before.
There has been a lot of straw noise, which in my ears is just too hard and not at all uncomfortable.
If we then go into the flood, then it is clearly deteriorated, it is down.
Earlier to my Tyros, I and my fellow musician used an extra display to display text, notes, chords for him.
Now we forgot this and use the karaoke feature that only shows text.
In the past we could both see exactly the same on our diplomas, but now it's only the karaoke feature for him.
For example, if I wanted to show a playlist to select a title, I have to enter submenus to change and then change back.
Minus for us!
If I want to use something that's much easier to make playlists, it's up to me to play all files without starting the next one.
If you forget to stop after each played midifile, the next one automatically starts.
Style is style and many are exactly the same as found in former Tyros.
In all of my previous Tyros, I've experienced that the sounds are embedded and it's the same here Geno sounds do not think I'm better!
Now I have just written negative so it will cause anxiety, which I understand.
But ... it can be difficult to admit that everything is not as perfect as salesmen want to demonstrate.
Tommy

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

....I maintain it's throwing money into a well if you change from Tyros 5 to Genos ....
....it's way too little to get for this money.
....then the first thing that has to be done is to change all the files used in their previous keyboard.
....I have to sit and make about 800 Memory Banks, why?
....you have to make a Memory Bank for each title.
....without having to add 10 titles to each bank and then not easily see which titles are available in each bank.
....Of the new sounds that came into Genos, are not all times better than the previous instrument sounds
....Some of the newer sounds are even worse than the ones before.
....If I want to use something that's much easier to make playlists, it's up to me to play all files without starting the next one.
....If you forget to stop after each played midifile, the next one automatically starts.
....Style is style and many are exactly the same as found in former Tyros.
... it can be difficult to admit that everything is not as perfect as salesmen want to demonstrate.
Tommy

Tommy, maybe we Scandinavians are not used to having our legs pulled = At bli dragen vid näsan in Swedish.  I feel exactly like you, and more and more so the further I get into preparing the Genos for gigs.
If things do not work as stated in both manual and reference manual  we call that a bug,  not something the buyer should find a way around, like the Parameter Lock that does not lock what is ticked, which you can get around by putting everything into every reg.bank.


Cheers
Kaarlo 

[Fred Smith]

If things do not work as stated in both manual and reference manual  we call that a bug,  not something the buyer should find a way around, like the Parameter Lock that does not lock what is ticked, which you can get around by putting everything into every reg.bank.

Kaarlo,

Please don't spread these falsehoods. You're not helping the readers, and, more importantly, you're not helping yourself.

Parameter Lock works exactly as outlined in the manual, and is unchanged in its operation from the Tyros series.

It would take you less than a minute to test to verify its operation.

Fred

[mikf]

You can buy a decent grand piano for $15k but a Bosendorfer costs about 5 times that. Does that mean it has to be 5 times better? Of course not, it just has to be what you want to be worth it. Same for a Merc versus a Ford or even a first class seat on a transatlantic flight versus a coach class seat. It's not up to Tommy to decide what is and isn't worth it for anyone except himself.
Mike

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Kaarlo,

Please don't spread these falsehoods. You're not helping the readers, and, more importantly, you're not helping yourself.

Parameter Lock works exactly as outlined in the manual, and is unchanged in its operation from the Tyros series.

It would take you less than a minute to test to verify its operation.

Fred

Fred,
I am sorry.  If that is not geneally so there is a defect in  both specimens we have here.  "It would take you less than a minute to test to verify its operation."  I know  unfortunately  you are convinced I am both unwilling and incapable of doing anything right. I may not be smart but please trust me, I will not claim anything without having thoroughly checked it. On the Genos in front of me the mic/voc.harmony is clicked on the  parameter lock page and thus if I  and the YAMAHA rep have understood the manual and reference manual correctly it should remain what it was set to unless changed via the panel buttons.

"This function is used to "lock" specific parameters (effect, split point, etc.) to make them selectable only via the panel
control—in other words, instead of being changed via Registration Memory, One Touch Setting, Playlist, or Song and
sequence data"

We have interpreted this text meaning shutting down the Genos (though that is a button)  the chosen and parameter locked setting of the mic/vocal harmony will stay like it was set.  Sorry to say, it will revert to 3 part harmony.  We have interpreted the manual that it should not do that even in case one would call up a registration in which it was set to something else. But it reverts to the 3 part harmony even without pressing anything else then just  the on /off button.  And it cannot be anything else than reverting to default as I never use the 3 part harmony so it cannot even be on any reg bank.

The genos has update 1.3. and has been factory reset.

I there anything else I should or could do ?  I remember being told there are no global settings, the system is designed to have everything put into the registry, but I believe that was before 1.3.

respectfully

Kaarlo

[Fred Smith]

"This function is used to "lock" specific parameters (effect, split point, etc.) to make them selectable only via the panel
control—in other words, instead of being changed via Registration Memory, One Touch Setting, Playlist, or Song and
sequence data"

We have interpreted this text meaning shutting down the Genos (though that is a button)  the chosen and parameter locked setting of the mic/vocal harmony will stay like it was set.  Sorry to say, it will revert to 3 part harmony.  We have interpreted the manual that it should not do that even in case one would call up a registration in which it was set to something else. But it reverts to the 3 part harmony even without pressing anything else then just  the on /off button.  And it cannot be anything else than reverting to default as I never use the 3 part harmony so it cannot even be on any reg bank.

Kaarlo,

As you state in your first paragraph (in color, no less), Parameter Lock stops a registration from changing the setting that's locked. There's nothing in any manual anywhere that leads to the interpretation this has any impact on the on/off button. And by the way, this operation is unchanged from Tyros keyboards.

So, what you need to remember is:
1. The on/off button is not a registration.
2. Parameter Lock applies only to registrations.
3. Rather than wishful interpretation, you're betting off asking the forum.

Fred

[travlin-easy]

Kaarlo, this has been a problem with Yamaha's operating system for more than a decade.

Once you turn the keyboard off, then fire it up again, everything in parameter lock goes to factory defaults. Consequently, the factory default vocal harmony and effects comes into play, and if you have the parameter lock for vocal harmony checked, then your setup registration cannot change it to the values you wish. Therefore, if you have created a startup registration, which I highly recommend, including all of your vocal settings and pedal settings, the simple solution is to uncheck parameter lock, select your setup registration, then re-check the vocal harmony in parameter lock and it will be locked in place until you turn off the keyboard. It's something that I have done for more than a decade and for me it's just a simple step in setting up the keyboard for a performance.

Hope this helps,

Gary

[DonM]

It's a simple step but one that should be entirely unnecessary.  Surely Yamaha could make some Global settings to be saved, like ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES DO.
Sorry for shouting.  This has irked me for many years.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Kaarlo, this has been a problem with Yamaha's operating system for more than a decade.

Once you turn the keyboard off, then fire it up again, everything in parameter lock goes to factory defaults. Consequently, the factory default vocal harmony and effects comes into play ...... select your setup registration, then re-check the vocal harmony in parameter lock and it will be locked in place until you turn off the keyboard.

Hope this helps,

Gary

Gary,
Sincere thanks, it sure does. and I am very relieved. I seems I am not as completely over the hill as my wife has been claiming for the last  20 years.  You understood exactly what I meant and what to me and the YAMAHA importer's rep seems a crazy implementation, e.g. so it it is not  me omitting to check  "things that take just a minute to check"  like  has been claimed. It was the presumption that the  Parameter Lock  mic/vocal harmony functions like it does on split point (which does not revert to default)  that was our error - whether understandable or not depends on the attitude of the adviser.

Whether the fact that Parameter Lock  is just temporal is seen as proof of the superiority of YAMAHA software creators  or as crazy is of course like everything  a matter of opinion.  That it is temporal is not expressly stated in the manuals,  (did I oversee something ?)  If it were this thread had been unnecessary.

"Once you turn the keyboard off, then fire it up again, everything in parameter lock goes to factory defaults."

On our two specimens split point does not revert to default, which is a blessing but may indicate  not everything does. This inconsistency in implementation is what easily makes one suspect there is a bug. Which of course is a malicious interpretation as we are dealing with "the best keyboard" ever.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Fred Smith]

"Once you turn the keyboard off, then fire it up again, everything in parameter lock goes to factory defaults."

This is not correct. Please stop posting these falsehoods.

Fred

[valimaties]

I don't like this kind of posting... It becomes like "feature bugs or not" thread, and please stop this thing!
If you think it is a bug, start a thread with what you think, but I see other title here!

Tommy (@Oymmot)... if you think Genos is not so far away from Tyros 5, please go and play a little bit with DSP possibilities in Genos vs Tyros5 How many DSPs can you use in Tyros5 in styles?! BTW, this is one of the best improvement which made me buy Genos. The second (which contains two ) , its dimension (regarding of number of keys) and touch screen...

Regards,
Vali

[travlin-easy]

Lighten up, Fred. Sure, there are a couple things that do not, but VH and Pedals, which are two of the most important parameters, especially for entertainers, does revert. The split point stays where it is set, which is the case with a couple other items that are rarely used, but by and large the parameter lock can be a real PITA because of a minor programming issue that Yamaha has never addressed, though it has been pointed out to them by me and many other entertainers.

All the best,

Gary

[Dromeus]

Parameter Lock stops a registration from changing the setting that's locked. There's nothing in any manual anywhere that leads to the interpretation this has any impact on the on/off button. And by the way, this operation is unchanged from Tyros keyboards.

Amen. Fred is absolutely right. Parameters that survive a shutdown and subsequent restart of the Genos are exactly those that are stored automatically (no user action required) in the system memory. These parameters are clearly documented in the data list, see section Parameter Chart, column "System". The Parameter Lock has absolutely no influence on which parameter will be read from the system setup. Parameter Lock only applies to registrations, as Fred pointed out correctly.

It is true, that VH parameters will revert, simply because they are NOT stored in system memory.

It WAS true, the pedal parameters did revert in the Tyros series, because they were NOT stored in system memory. This has been changed with Genos. Pedal setup will now survive a shutdown and restart of Genos.

[travlin-easy]

Good to know about the pedal setting,  Dromeus. Glad Yamaha finally addressed that feature.

All  the best,

Gary

[DonM]

Good to know about the pedal setting,  Dromeus. Glad Yamaha finally addressed that feature.

All  the best,

Gary

Gary, ironic that we were just discussing this problem this weekend by phone!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

hi
Just go forward and do not look back, because one day It will not matter.
Experience the living now!!

Looking at the sound of the Genos and making a decision is a no brainer.
My older sounds still come out the same as the T5 and to me It is necessary to have some older raw sounds at your disposal.
The sounds you have In the Genos are far superior and the effects and manipulation of everything.
I would also say ditch the speakers that go with the Genos as You have a Rolls Royce with a mini engine metaphorically speaking.
Spend some of that cash and get decent speaker system it will pay dividends.
Buy an expensive pair of powered speakers and that will last through quite a few keyboard changeovers and therefore will be much cheaper than those boxy satallite speakers with a boom box evey four years.

You always get what you pay for.
What is the point In having a £4500 keyboard with a cheap set of speakers.
It defeats Itself.

John

[EileenL]

Hi John,
  I know you love your speakers but for many myself included when you are sitting at home in a small music room the Genos speakers are just fine. We have just had our forum meeting and Steve from Yamaha came along with his Genos and a set of Stage Pass 600 speakers. Wow what a sound. Members learnt lots of tips to.

[svpworld]

1. The quality and variety of acoustic instrument based sounds
2. The user interface (ability to control these sounds easily) compared to say the Montage synthesiser which I previously owned

I've owned many top end synth workstations, I never expected an arranger to beat any of them on sound quality but Genos definitely does at least regarding expressive acoustic based instruments.... and it doesn't do too badly with its pallette of synth sounds, especially when you start exploring expansion packs (and there are many free sounds out there!).

Simon

[Gunnar Jonny]

You always get what you pay for.

Well, at general terms I have to disagree to the statement in that line. 
Too often I have a oposite feeling, we get much less than what we pay for.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen
At the end of the day it Is all down to what we are happy with.
I did not like the Tyros speaker system at all.
Boxy and boomy sounding to me and battery wires for connecting. What a mess of wiring It was also.
All our ears are different and It Is down to personal choice.
For me, I like the sound to equal my Marantz hi fi system at least.
Now we must get out In that sunshine while it lasts!!
Any good tips from the man that came down from Yamaha??


All the best
John

[EileenL]

Yes John,
  Lots. What ever people wanted to know he answered it.

[Audrey Turner]

Hello Everyone,

I bought the Genos for several reasons 1) As a pianist the 76-note version is perfect,  2) I could immediately hear the difference in the pianos, strings, orchestra, vibes and most of the rhythms, particularly the live drum accompaniment but most of all, as it's now digital (similar to my PCs) there is a lot less button pushing and the overall 'light touch' isn't so demanding on my poor old hands.  However, I am still very much in the experimenting stage, so am not able to give an honest opinion yet, but I'll keep in touch.

Audrey Turner

[Pianoman]

Hello Audrey.

Please allow me to be one of the first to congratulate you and welcome you to the forum.
There are some good and helpful folks here, and I'm confident that you will enjoy this
forum very much.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[DonM]

Abby, I did a review of my audition of the Genos if you are interested.

[Pianoman]

Hello Don.

I read your review a few days back, and it was a very good and honest review.
I've been out gigging intensively for the past 2 weeks and haven't had time to scribble.

My gigs start again tomorrow, for the next 7 days, then I'll have another day to rest.

I'm not working today, that's why you see me scribbling again.
I was on the verge of looking your post again right now, before I saw your post.

As you already know, I am also very interested to hear about your experiences with the Korg,
as I am fascinated by the different styles, and especially the drums and basses.

I feel that perhaps having a Yamaha instrument on one hand, and the Pa4X on the other,
would not be a bad idea.

As a Pro, you understand that even though the styles on the Genos may have been reworked,
you will still have 90% of the styles that existed in previous models.

I need a completely new sound for my gigs, to sort of reinvent myself in a way.

The Genos styles, as good as they may be, are mostly styles from previous keyboards.

People like you, Gary and me, as well as some others, probably do not care too much
about the hundreds of wonderful RH and LH voices on these keyboards,
and may not be as excited about them as others seem to be.

People who gig for a living usually place more emphasis on the styles.

Usually I have about 10 favourite voices that I use in practically every song.
The rest of my work involves my Stage Piano.

One thing that has surprised me, and others can look it up, is that the Korg prices
have been holding steady since I started looking them up a few months ago.

The Pa4X and Kronos 88 prices haven't dropped at all, in contrast to the Genos and
Montage prices which are almost 25% cheaper now than in December.

Please keep posting your opinions. I do read them.

It's just a bit hectic now with the gigs, and will continue to be so until November.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[EileenL]

Hello Audrey,
  Its been a long time since we spoke. I am sure you will soon get used to your Genos. Hope you have downloaded the extra Playlist and the latest OS which is 1.30.

[DonM]

Abby, I replied to your PM.  Very few here want to hear about Korg. 
And that's o.k., it's a Yamaha forum. 
When you go to the Korg forum it's about the same, except you CAN be critical about the keyboards as long as you are truthful and objective.
I am happy right now with both PSR S970 and Korg PA4X!  I leave the Korg set up where I work, and use the 970 for learning songs or the occasional private party.

[guitpic1]

Re: Korg vs Yamaha(or even Ketron) thing. 

Both are excellent.  I gigged with the PA4X before switching back to Yamaha via Genos.  I think I just bonded with my Genos.

Discussions about what Korg/Yamaha can/can't do can go on ad infinitum and still leave folks scratching their heads.  Trying to come up with the three reasons you buy what works for you may be interesting...but not particularly useful in my mind.

Buy a Korg, Yammie, Ketron or whatever.  Gig with it or play it for fun.  At some point you will discover what's right for you.