Possible bug when controlling Genos from DAW over USB midi

[markstyles]

Look guys.. I am well-versed in Midi. I have been working with synthesizers since the late 60's.   I worked for Voyetra Technologies at the time the MIDI spec was devised. Our company was one of the few, included to help design the MIDI SPEC.  I've used computers well before MIDI spec, S-triggers, V-triggers, Gates 1/volt per octave for pitch data to VCO's .  I've built adaptors to change ARP Trigger/Gates to MOOG S-Triggers. 

Like I said I strip out Genos from Sending or receiving sy***. So Logic is sending no sy***. Genos cannot set itself to GM, XG via CC controls only sy***.  I know that when Genos turns on, it 'sets itself' to the  proper mode.. Logic CAN send out sy*** but it'simplementation of sy*** is poor.. You have to  manually enter data in decimal format, it is then converted to hex.. it is extremely slow, poorly documented.. Like Logic's extensive Environment section, few Logic Users ever use that section of program..  Apple's policy now is to NOT discuss it's environment, or sy***, because it is too complicated for the  intelligence of it's users, and can cause way too many problems, if used by someone, not knowing what they are doing.. 

There are no XG, GM, settings. etc in LOGIC to send. THERE ARE HOWEVER such commands available to send from Band-In-A-Box..
I Could and WILL boot up Band-In-A-Box and see if I can get Genos, back to stable condition. At this point, it's just FAR easier to reboot Genos.

I spent a significant portion of my life being a PAID Beta tester, for a lot of the original hardware, software DAW, and instrument companies.  I hate the fact, that a lot of companies, have just decided to release products, and let the consumer, be the Beta testers.  However because of the vast number of companies involved, 3rd party companies. It is almost impossible to a manufacturer, to test all the possibilities of connections, and users choice of working devices, and techniques.

When I reach a situation, where something is unworkable for me.  I DO write or call..  Some companies, are very hesitant to acknowledge there could be a problem with their hardware, software..  My last confrontation was with Apple over their 2015 Mac Pro, having micro drop-outs on their Thunderbolt Lanes..  It took many phone calls, with OWC Raid systems, Softraid, and local 3rd party Mac repair companies, to compile a list of  dozens of other users with the same exact problem.. Only under threat of a class action lawsuit, did Apple step to the plate.  They bought and replaced my whole system, fully loaded Mac Pro, 24 TB RAID System. They eventually found the problem, and silently released a patch, without acknowledgement.  I AM NOT willing to have to spend vast amounts of time, calling attention too, and helping fix some companies bugs,  without being  re-numerated for it.

I have approached Yamaha with specific esoteric problems, some beyond the knowledge scope, of 1st tier techs.  They however are more accommodating in acknowledging a possibility of a situation.. I haven't bothered to report this to them, because it is not 'reproducible on command'..  I am much more interested in finishing my compositions, than spend hours on the phone, often with people I know are reading a script from a notebook..  I am too old, for such crap.  I find a work-around to continue my work. 

If finishing a song comes to a complete STOP because of a problem (which I never have with Tyros's or Genos).. I might stop to get it rectified. Most often I find a work-around to continue finishing my piece..  So far, the dropping out of one MIDI SONG channel on Genos, is not a 'breaker' for me.  I just change Logic's MIDI output track to another Song Channel on Genos..  or re-power Genos. So far, Genos has never lost two SONG Channels..  (one reason, I suspect it is a very esoteric problem..  and a problem in Genos.

Since it is so 'irregular' (happening perhaps once in every hundred hours of Genos being on)..  It is thus far impossible for me to duplicate.  Yamaha or any other company CANNOT fix a problem they cannot duplicate. 

Since Genos doesn't have a 'crash log' (or it is unavailable to us the general public),  and this problem will not register on Mac side (Logic has no way to know an external midi device is not responding correctly, to a particular MIDI channel.  there is not really any useful data I can give either Yamaha or Logic. Logic does use 'active sensing' to know it is in constant communication with it's MIDI input, but not a particular midi output.

Logic programmers, like Apple themselves, will never publicly admit the problem might be with them..

OUR BEST SOLUTION for right now, would be for Cubase, Nuendo, other DAW users, to  tell us, if they come across the same situation. That would pinpoint the problem to Logic Pro, rather than Genos.

So anyone with other DAWS, experiencing this GENOS SONG DROP out, please come forward, this would be one step forward, in determining where the problem is coming from. Logic does have some bugs, which have not been resolved due to the large number of variable factors in it..

With all the software, hardware, 3rd party plug-ins, available now.. There will always be 'bugs' popping up.. because the huge number of variables and techniques used by individuals involved..

[svpworld]

Hi MarkStyles
Wow impressive track record, good to hear from a professional experienced in this field. I am interested in your point about disabling software midi thru in Logic, exactly like you that's the sort of problem I'm getting when selecting a track and it immediately echoing midi data back to genos as well as control messages from Genos.  I'll have to look at my setup again and see if there's a better way of achieving things, maybe resort to 5 pin DIN midi and get my head around Logic Pro in more depth.  Also like you I've resorted to using midi tracks 2-15 when I don't really want to reset the Genos to recover track 1.  I've never had this happen with any other keyboard or synth I've owned hence my suspicions.  Also there are occasions where I get stuck notes, probably me overloading USB midi given its trying to do an awful lot of other stuff (including my external drives) over USB. 

Simon

[markstyles]

I thought there used to be a 'midi thru' switch in Logic, but I can't find it anymore.. Did they take it out, assuming you would disable 'software monitoring..

If you haven't discovered - https://www.logicprohelp.com It's very knowledgeable.. I keep forgetting to ask.. Also there is a whole new generation  (actually several now) that use Logic more on a surface level. Many new music composition people tend to like cubase or especially Ableton Livell  I've stuck with Logic for decades now.. Before Apple owned it.. I really don't feel like learning a new DAW.. but if I have to at some point I will..

Yes selecting a midi track to adjust volume. or pan, puts it into 'record enable'.. and often echo's midi back, even to other midi channels than that selected..

I go into Genos Midi receive channel, and shut off 'MIDI RECEIVE'.. I really wish Yamaha allowed us more than 10 user spots.

Oh well..  We have to adapt to what the hardware and software manufactures create..

I have never had this MIDI channel disappear.. The fastest solution for me is to re-assign LOGIC MIDI track to another Genos SONG MIDI channel..
However I quite often overdub a number of different style parts and use up all of Genos Song channels.

Yamaha's 256 note polyphony is a bit misleading. There are 256 tone generators, but some patches use more than one tone generator. The most complex uses 8 tone generators (the mega voices).. So in reality, if you create dense music, you can easily 'run out of polyphony. To be fair Genos and The Tyros did an excellent job of voice stealing.. So it is often not noticeable.

Yes, I get 'hanging notes.  You can create a custom Transport with the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT windows, clicking and holding MIDI OUT will reset all notes, all midi channels and this will kill hanging notes.  If you frustrated you can just lay both your arms on Genos, and with luck you will use up all the voices, the hanging note will disappear..  Hanging notes are not uncommon. although thankfully they don't happen all the time..  In Logic there is a MIDI reset custom command, you can select which features you want to reset.  all notes reset, pichbend zero out, modulation zero out. etc. 

[markstyles]

I thought there used to be a 'midi thru' switch in Logic, but I can't find it anymore.. Did they take it out, assuming you would disable 'software monitoring..

If you haven't discovered - https://www.logicprohelp.com It's very knowledgeable.. I keep forgetting to ask.. Also there is a whole new generation  (actually several now) that use Logic more on a surface level. Many new music composition people tend to like cubase or especially Ableton Livell  I've stuck with Logic for decades now.. Before Apple owned it.. I really don't feel like learning a new DAW.. but if I have to at some point I will..

Yes selecting a midi track to adjust volume. or pan, puts it into 'record enable'.. and often echo's midi back, even to other midi channels than that selected..

I go into Genos Midi receive channel, and shut off 'MIDI RECEIVE'.. I really wish Yamaha allowed us more than 10 user spots.

I don't know if using 5 pin midi will gain you anything.. But I haven't check that..

Oh well..  We have to adapt to what the hardware and software manufactures create..

I have never had this MIDI channel disappear.. The fastest solution for me is to re-assign LOGIC MIDI track to another Genos SONG MIDI channel..
However I quite often overdub a number of different style parts and use up all of Genos Song channels.

Yamaha's 256 note polyphony is a bit misleading. There are 256 tone generators, but some patches use more than one tone generator. The most complex uses 8 tone generators (the mega voices).. So in reality, if you create dense music, you can easily 'run out of polyphony. To be fair Genos and The Tyros did an excellent job of voice stealing.. So it is often not noticeable.

Yes, I get 'hanging notes.  You can create a custom Transport with the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT windows, clicking and holding MIDI OUT will reset all notes, all midi channels and this will kill hanging notes.  If you frustrated you can just lay both your arms on Genos, and with luck you will use up all the voices, the hanging note will disappear..  Hanging notes are not uncommon. although thankfully they don't happen all the time..  In Logic there is a MIDI reset custom command, you can select which features you want to reset.  all notes reset, pichbend zero out, modulation zero out. etc.