PSR-E463 -- Almost there!

[SciNote]

Okay, I went to the local music store today and saw three PSR-E463 keyboards bulk stacked on display.  Unfortunately, they did not actually have any opened to demo.  As they were getting ready to close in just 15 minutes, and I am not ready to buy anything, I did not want to have them go through the trouble of opening and displaying a model right before they closed.  But these buggers do exist, and so if anyone else is near a music store, you may want to check it out and see if they have any to display.  Otherwise, my next day off is Sunday, so if I have time, I'll try to get back there and see if they put one out to demo.

[vbdx66]

Hi Bob,

WoW ! So these E463 REALLY do exist after all  I find this so frustrating that there are so few demos of the thing for the time being.

Since I want a portable keyboard again on top of my not-quite-portable DGX 650 I am currently hesitating between the following boards :

- Used PSR E433 for € 100 (had it some years ago and enjoyed it immensely)
- New PSR E453 (the shops are trying to get rid of them) for about € 250
- Used PSR S650 for € 200
- Used Korg PA300 for € 300

It'll probably be the PSR E433 or 453, though, because of the live knobs and of this forum 

The only thing that might have me consider the PSR E463 would be if it had new sounds and styles, which apparently it does not have, or a better keybed than the E433.

Be sure that if you go back to that shop to try the PSR E463, you'll have an extensive audience on this forum to read about your experience 

Best Regards,

Vinciane

[vbdx66]

EDIT: I just saw that the Casio ma-x300 is on sale for € 300 so I guess it might be addded to my list, too. I guess that at this price it is a bargain, but it is sadly also probably the sign that this keyboard has been a commercial failure because it is, let's say, "atypical".

Regards,

Vinciane

[AnupamEnosh]

Ma'am,
MZ-X300 is not something you would like, especially if you are a Yamahian. Feature wise it is great board, but some of the sounds bugged me a lot.

[vbdx66]

@AnupamEnosh

Sir,

I watched some of the demo videos on the Casio mz-x 300 and was quite impressed by the features which reminded more of the PSR S670 and Korg PA 300. But you stated exactly what I am fearing: that I will still like the sounds of the Yamahas better.

Although they have far less features and only two variations styles, do you think that the PSR E4xx for about the same price still make a better buy because of their sounds? I particularly like the organs, tenor and soprano sax, sweet trumpet as well as the three flutes, these sounds are well suited for jazz tunes.

Best Regards,

Vinciane.

[panos]

- Used PSR S650 for € 200 ?
4 style variations + 4 OTS settings 

[vbdx66]

Yes but no Live knobs  I find that the possibility to control some DSPs Live is a great plus to the PSR E453. Also is there a way on the PSR S650 to mute style tracks live while playing? This point is critical for me. I also like the USB audio feature of the PSR E453.

Regards,

Vinciane.

[AnupamEnosh]

EDIT: I just saw that the Casio ma-x300 is on sale for € 300 so I guess it might be addded to my list, too. I guess that at this price it is a bargain, but it is sadly also probably the sign that this keyboard has been a commercial failure because it is, let's say, "atypical".

Regards,

Vinciane

https://youtu.be/2J3P-oAt57o
Here is a video that I saw months back, the Piano and Strings sound great, but rest of the voices are ONLY GOOD and not great for its price. I am not a Casio hater but the only thing they developed the best, is the Privia DPs.

[pquenin]

In the PSR-S650 manual you can read this :
This instrument has a Mixer feature that lets you control on/off settings for each track,
or adjust the Volume, Pan, Reverb Level and Chorus Level for each track during Song
or Style playback. By editing these parameters, you can change the feeling of the Song
or Style.
You can use the 8 buttons below the screen to mute/unmute the tracks.

I love this function on the PSR-E453 too.

With regard to the Casio MZ-X300, I have bought this one at 300€ at Music Store Professional, but I have just sent it back because of a problem with some of the keys of the keyboard that have a bad response to the pressure in certain occasions.

But what is obvious to me is that most of the sounds of the Casio are way better than on the PSR-E453 generally.
Of course there are some cool sounds on the PSR, that can compete with the sounds on the Casio, but most of the sounds of the PSR are common and average.
On the PSR I am not able to find a "synth" sound that sounds like a synth, they have something "thin" and "plastic" in them that doesn't sound right.
The Casio have great synth sounds, in fact you just have the feeling that IT IS a synth.
And you can edit them more deeply : you have 3 envelopes and 2 LFOs, and a sofware editor, and the possibility to create your own sounds from your own samples.
The styles on the Casio are more diverse on my opinion, but the "fills" sometimes sounds not "right" to me.
What is great on the casio is that you can edit everything (sounds, styles, arpeggios, ...) and save your edits.
It also imports the Yamaha styles in 2 clicks, it's not officially documented but I have tested it and it works great.

I have played again in a local store on the PSR-S670 today and it's a real pleasure. The sounds are very good, and there is a modulation wheel, and for me it makes a difference. But no USB to HOST Audio.
Now that have I play enought on the PSR-S670, I can say that I prefer the S670 sounds and styles to the MZ-X300 ones, except for the pure "synth" sounds.
So I am waiting that Music Store refund me, and maybe I will buy the PSR-S670. I know that the Korg PA300 is a great competitor, but I can't find one here in my city to test it, and I feel more "Yamaha" that "Korg" in my heart, and I also appreciate this forum.

And I can sell you my PSR-E453 for 200€, I just bought it 2 month ago so it is in perfect condition.
I think I would not have looked for another keyboard if the PSR-E453 have a modulation wheel. I have tried to connect differnet Android or iOS apps to control it but with no success.
But this keyboard has USB to HOST Audio that I appreciate a lot, so I don't know what to do.
Maybe I must wait for an hypothetic PSR-S675 with USB to HOST Audio ? 

[panos]

Hi pquenin,
I can see a Usb to host connectivity in the s650 but I don't know if it is just a midi connection though cause with the sounds that daw's have,I just use the keyboard as a midi and not audio.
https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/PSR-S650-Arranger-Workstation-Keyboard/pidYAM-PSRS650

The S series is one category above the E series.
Like the difference between the Tyros series and the S series.

All great keyboards in any case those that Vinciane distinguished for the budged she wants to give for a second keyboard.
Better having a lot of options and having trouble to choose than no options at all.

Where is PJD or Arvacon to tell us which one has better speakers.so maybe better sound?

[vbdx66]

@ pequenin:
Thanks for all the input you gave on this various keyboards.

From what you are saying about the Casio MZ-X 300 keys, this is a confirmation of what I thoughtt: although it has numerous features, the build quality of this Casio is not so good. So I will not be considering the Casio any further. Also you are saying that the synth sounds are far better than on the Yamaha but I am not that interested in synth sounds, I am more looking for nice acoustic sounds for pop, jazz, film and classical music. For instance I find that the Sweet! Classical flute is a nice addition to the sound palette of the PSR E453 (I have noticed that I have been extensively using the Sweet! and Cool! sounds of the PSR E433 when I had it and of the DGX 650).

I looked a bit at the specs and if you need modulation and nice guitar sounds, the Korg PA 300 might be what you are looking for, excepted that opposite to the Casio, the Korg unfortunately won't read Yamaha styles. But all sounds and styles are fully tweakable, you can even edit your own drum kits. Here is the commercial video made by Korg when the PA 300 was released: IMHO the piano, guitar and synth used in the video sound quite well (but this guy knows how to play an arranger keyboard obviously).

https://youtu.be/bR4mhYFteSY

Maybe you can try the PA 300 somewhere before deciding between it and the PSR S670?

And if you really are missing the Mod wheel on the PSR E453, the Yamaha SoundController app for iPad might be what you are looking for. You can download it from the AppStore. It gives you a Pitch-Bend wheel and a mod wheel on your iPad. You simply need to connect your iPad to the keyboard via a USB printer cable and Apple Camera Connexion adapter. I have done it with the DGX and it works flawlessly.

As for your offer of buying your PSR E453, I am considering it but my choice is not made yet. If I go for it I will contact you through a private message. This is also a difficult choice because for the time being it would be very difficult for me to go to a music store and try the various instruments I have in mind. So it might be better for me to buy a new instrument on Internet so that I can send it back if I don't like it.

As for the speakers is is not the main issue for me. It is always possible, when needed, to work with headphones or a PA system. There is also the possibility of using the speakers of my DGX 650 as the sound output for the second keyboard, since the DGX fortunately has an Aux In socket.

@ Panos: It is true that the PSR S series is one step above the E. But newer E keyboards might have features that older S keyboards don't have, like the Audio USB for instance, or new styles. USB audio is great because it works both ways: for instance, you can connect an iPad to a PSR E453, launch the Korg iM1 app, and you have a Korg M1 in your PSR E453! See this video:

https://youtu.be/G8Cj7T8aaJo


What was great with the PSR S650 as opposite to the PSR E series was the possibility to add new sounds and styles. The Church Organ pack was esp. nice IMHO. Great for organ lovers on a budget.

Best Regards to all,

Vinciane.

[pquenin]

Hello Vinciane,
just want to add that the Casio MZ-X sounds are closer to the Yamaha Sweet! sounds than the old XG sounds.
And with the dedicated faders to control the drawbars of the organ, it's a great instrument for organ lovers.
However, the distorded guitar sounds are not as impressive than the ones found on the PSR-S670 or PA300.
Now, concerning the quality of the Casio, i can't say if it's a isolated problem with the one I had, or a more general problem.
Maybe this is why Music Store Professional sell them for 300€...
I have been on the Casio user forum and many people are happy with their MZ-X.

That said, the E453 offer one or more Sweet!, Cool! or Dynamic sounds in every sound category, and I must admit that we often use the same favorite sounds when we use a keyboard, so you can do a lot with a entry-level keyboard such as the E453.
I have an old iPodTouch and an iPad2 and unfortunately the Yamaha Sound Controller app required iOS 10 (this is what I get when I try to download it).
I will try the Android app "Augmented midi" ASAP.

Concerning the PSR-S670 vs PA 300, I have just read the Korg manual at midday and it can do a lot ! The 2 keyboards are very similar in terms of functionalities (and similar to what the Casio MZ-X300 can do). I had already seen this  PA 300 video, and also others comparing the PA 300 to the PSR-670 or Roland BK-5. My impression is that when it come to distorded guitar sounds, the PA 300 sounds better. I think that the onboard Korg's FX are more numerous and better.
But the PA-300 has no Audio IN, and since it has not USB to Host Audio, you can't use it as "speakers" for an external device or your computer.

I have to dig a bit more to see if I can go thru the PSR-E453 limitations by using it in combination with an external phone or tablet (modulation wheel, guitar amp simulators, virtual synths....).

[pquenin]

@Vinciane (and everybody interested) :

The PSR-S670 is at 291 € on Amazon :

https://www.amazon.fr/Yamaha-PSR-S670-Clavier-Arrangeur-Noir/dp/B00YRML69Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524589323&sr=8-1&keywords=psr-s670

[AnupamEnosh]

@Vinciane (and everybody interested) :

The PSR-S670 is at 291 € on Amazon :

https://www.amazon.fr/Yamaha-PSR-S670-Clavier-Arrangeur-Noir/dp/B00YRML69Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524589323&sr=8-1&keywords=psr-s670

The best deal ever !

[Robert van Weersch]

Probably a mistake, 'cause now it states EUR 543.

[pquenin]

Yes very strange, yesterday it was 291 € (and I have ordered one). A little after it was back to 543 €. This morning I have checked again and it was 291 €.
And now it has returned to 543 €.
It's the same link, but at 291 € the vendor was "histoiredelire", at 543 € it's "Amazon".
My order has been confirmed by Amazon, so I will see soon if it's a mistake or not...

[vbdx66]

I can't believe that I have missed that !!!! 
I wonder whether it was a mistake or a clearance sale...
Congratulations for your purchase   

Regards,

Vinciane.

[SciNote]

That is a very good price for an S670.  I checked the US version of Amazon, and still saw the normal price of about $799.

As for the E463, I went back to the music store, and the E463's were still just bulk-stacked in boxes.  Really, this place needs to get its act together.  They even have a Montage 6 and a Korg PA4X -- some pretty pricey machinery -- and while those were open and on display, they were not powered up or hooked up to any audio components -- at least, that was the case as of yesterday.  When I worked in retail, when new goodies came in, the first thing I wanted to do is get those products displayed and hooked up so that I could learn how to use them, show them to customers, and sell them!

[pquenin]

It was a mistake, Amazon has canceled my order just right now :-(

[vbdx66]

 
@pquenin if you look now on Leboncoin there is a S670 somewhere for € 250 near Nîmes I think.

Regards,

Vinciane.

[pquenin]

@Vinciane : thank you for the information :-) I have bought this PSR-S670 at 250 €, I hope I will not have problems with this one...  But why haven't you bought it yourself ?

[vbdx66]

@lequenin:

Well, since I had to buy the keyboard without seeing it and he had to send it to me by post, I asked him for actual photos of the keyboard (because the photo published on Leboncoin was a generic one), so probably he found it easier to let you pick it up than sending me first the photos then the keyboard...

Bad luck for me and good luck for you, you'll tell us more about the PSR S670 when you'll have played it for some time. I am curious what you'll think of it as compared with the PSR E453.

I wish you a lot of musical fun with your new keyboard, 

Regards,

Vinciane.

[pquenin]

I have not the keyboard yet, because I live in Annecy, so the guy has sent me the keyboard by post.
The package was already wrapped, so the guy has sent me a photo of a hole in the package to show that it was not empty.
So the only things I have seen right now is 2 or 3 keys of the PSR-S670.
I hope I will receive it this Saturday...

I have already played a lot on the PSR-S670 in local stores and it's really a great keyboard, It's a big step soundwise compared to the E453.
And it has all the great features that I had on the Casio MZ-X300.

So for the moment it's "wait and see" because I"m not a lucky man generally...

[AnupamEnosh]

I don't think there is any alternative to S670 in its price range, yay there are some awesome Roland synths, but the offering by Yamaha is priceless. I wish I buy myself a Genos or its successor in near future.

[vbdx66]

I have not the keyboard yet, because I live in Annecy, so the guy has sent me the keyboard by post.
The package was already wrapped, so the guy has sent me a photo of a hole in the package to show that it was not empty.
So the only things I have seen right now is 2 or 3 keys of the PSR-S670.
I hope I will receive it this Saturday...

I have already played a lot on the PSR-S670 in local stores and it's really a great keyboard, It's a big step soundwise compared to the E453.
And it has all the great features that I had on the Casio MZ-X300.

So for the moment it's "wait and see" because I"m not a lucky man generally...

Really strange... I thought the previous owner sold the keyboard to you because you were picking it up. If this is not the case, then probably if the keyboard was already wrapped up he didn't want to open the package to take photos, which is the reason he sold it to you rather than to me.

I have had some problems on Leboncoin and Eaby in the past, so I have gotten rather (too?) cautious. I always ask for photos of the real item if they are not already published in the advert.

When you tried the PSR S670 in a shop, how was the keybed in comparison with that of the E453? This is a very important point for me, I'd rather buy a keyboard with less features but a better keybed (my first I strument as a kid was the family acoustic piano, which I played badly, but I got accustomed to a nice key feel that way).

The problem is that I am living 60 km from Perpignan and I dont drive, and all music shops with keyboards are out of the city centre, so it is a bit complicated to go there to try out the keyboards I am interested in and I have to rely on other people impressions.

[vbdx66]

I don't think there is any alternative to S670 in its price range, yay there are some awesome Roland synths, but the offering by Yamaha is priceless. I wish I buy myself a Genos or its successor in near future.

Actually there is one alternative to the PSR S670, it is the Korg PA300. It has roughly the same features as the S670, plus fully editable sounds and styles (waow!) but minus the Live! knobs and our great forum, of course. But you might want to try it and compare it to the S670 if you get the chance.

Well... I am sure all of us would like to get either a Genos, or a PA4x, or both, if we had the opportunity. 

Regards,

Vinciane.

[AnupamEnosh]

When you tried the PSR S670 in a shop, how was the keybed in comparison with that of the E453? This is a very important point for me, I'd rather buy a keyboard with less features but a better keybed (my first I strument as a kid was the family acoustic piano, which I played badly, but I got accustomed to a nice key feel that way).

Undoubtedly S670 is superior in all aspects.

Actually there is one alternative to the PSR S670, it is the Korg PA300. It has roughly the same features as the S670, plus fully editable sounds and styles (waow!) but minus the Live! knobs and our great forum, of course. But you might want to try it and compare it to the S670 if you get the chance.

Korg PA 300 is quite an old model, and out of sales in India. In our country, instruments are launched quite later, and quickly get out of sales. I see the same case with Motif XF synths' sale in India. Sadly our music has become almost fully commercial these days, and there is very very limited scope for musicians ending up as well known artists.

[panos]

Fully commercial music?
whaa whaa why are you saying this?
Are you making whaa whaa wild thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyaI4-5849w

I like that part at 2:18.That's music my friend! (or whatever it is called...  )
Oh! is there is there a Santana's music playing?
So I don't have to turn off the volume to watch the video then

[pquenin]

I don't think the PA300 is undoubtedly inferior to the S670, I think it's a great keyboard, but I have not found one here to test by myself, and its weakness is the connectivity, you don't have audio in for example...

[pquenin]

When you tried the PSR S670 in a shop, how was the keybed in comparison with that of the E453? This is a very important point for me, I'd rather buy a keyboard with less features but a better keybed (my first I strument as a kid was the family acoustic piano, which I played badly, but I got accustomed to a nice key feel that way).

Well, I tend to be less sensitive than you to this aspect, I adapt myself to what I have. If I remember well the keybed of the PSR-S670 have just gave me the impression that everything was fine. Nothing have drawn my attention on this particular point.

And to be honest, it's the same with the E453's keybed. When I have bougth the Casio MZ-X300 then I have seen by comparison that the Yamaha keybed had a harder feel, but this has never been a problem for me. If there were not these comments here about the E453's keybed I would have never notice that there can be a problem about it. In comparison to the PSR-S670 I think that this latter as a smoother feel, but I have to check this the next time I go to the store.