Genos Test Number Three

[Pianoman]

Abby, I'm glad to hear those EQ settings were a starting point for you. Good luck with your upcoming test(s). Sounds great if you can get to take the Genos on a gig for testing in a live situation.

Hello Stephen.

Thank you again for your EQ and Compressor settings.

They were very good and helpful, as I mentioned above.

If the guy let's me have the Genos for a weekend, it will be more for the purpose
of familiarizing myself with the keyboard, and to learn as much as possible
about it within the short allowed time span.

The weekend I'm referring to would consist of Saturday afternoon till Monday
morning.

That would not be enough time to deal with all the registration transfer issues,
and all the individual tweaks I may have to do, in order to gig with it.

Being a showroom Instrument, I don't think it has been updated either.

It took me weeks of tweaking before I was confident enough to use my T3 in
front of an audience.

And I'm still finding out stuff that I didn't know was possible.

For example, I only learned about a month ago right here, how to save
song lyrics into a registration.

I'm not much of a geek. I normally would just tweak the Master EQ, Compressor,
individual track EQ, and right hand voices, then save them to registrations.
That's about it.

Most important for me is to hook the Genos up to my sound system,
to hear what it sounds like on my current gear.

There is a soundproofed underground Discotheque in one of the hotels
where I play that is unused.

I normally would go set up my gear in there, and blast away to my heart's
content, without being heard. That's what I did with my T3 eight years ago.

Hopefully the store owner will be there tomorrow. I'll make my pitch and see
what he says.

My advantage is that I'm probably one of a fast shrinking pool of people who
are interested in Arrangers nowadays.

A lot of home users and composers have turned to Computer software for
their musical needs.

99.9 percent of so called performers in hotels here have completely given up
playing.

Some used to pretend to play, but have now given up the pretence altogether,
choosing to show up armed with just a Laptop.

It would not surprise me if I were to be the only one to buy an arranger here.
So my chances look pretty good.

We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[travlin-easy]

Abby, many of the players here have long since left the hotel and restaurant jobs and opted to perform in the senior venues, mainly because the pay is far better, the hours are better, and audiences tend to me more appreciative and there are far more job opportunities for musical entertainers who actually play than DJs, KJs and Laptop performers.

Here, in the USA, retirement communities are a huge, very profitable business. The residents usually enjoy musical entertainment at least two days a week, and in some locations, up to 5 days a week. Some of the communities, which are usually housed in a huge building complex, have their own theaters, nite clubs and pubs, each of which features musical entertainment regularly. I have a friend that has a 17-piece big band, and he is booked three days a week with his band at retirement communities in Maryland alone.

I think you will really like what you hear when you get the Genos properly tuned for your needs, but as I stated earlier, if there is not a WOW factor for you, then go for a Tyros 5, which would be a serious upgrade from the T3. Should be a lot less expensive, too.

Good luck,

Gary

[Toril S]

Gary: I hear I will have to move to the USA to have a good time in a senior community!

[travlin-easy]

Toril, This is one of the retirement communities I performed at regularly.

https://www.brightviewseniorliving.com/find-a-community/brightview-avondell/photo-gallery

This gives you an idea of how upscale these places really are in my part of the world.

Here's one in Florida, that has several similar facilities situated all over the USA. https://www.thevillages.com/

All the best,

Gary :cool:

[Pianoman]

Hello Gary.

Sorry that I didn't respond promptly to your post yesterday.
It was late when I got back from the Genos session at my friend's place.
That's why I just wrote a global response.

I envy you guys there, in the fact that there are so many opportunities to
perform the senior circuit.

There's not much of a senior circuit here. There are two homes for seniors but
I don't  believe that they can really afford entertainment.

We have a family friend in one of them, and I had a conversation with their Director
a couple of years ago..

He said it was a quiet community where they hardly do much entertainment, but he
would let me know if any special event crops up.

That was two years ago, and I did not pursue it any further.

What we have here are some hotels that cater exclusively to Spanish pensioners in the
winter months.

It is a programme subsidised by the Spanish government, where they make a deal with
some hotels to accept the pensioners for a very low price, where 80% is paid by the
government, and the pensioner pays around 20%.

The pay is terrible, but it provides work for musicians, because they insist on
musicians that actually play. Not some guy and his Laptop.

I'm playing in those on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays, since early March.
I also do an open air gig for a different kind of venue every Saturday.

And what you say is true, the audiences are much more appreciative.

I'll be with them till April the 30th, when I'll start playing in my usual Summer
hotels.



As far as the Genos is concerned, you as a professional musician will better
understand  my reasoning.

The Genos is not a bad arranger.

And I am trying to get as much time with it, plus knowledge of it,
before deciding if it would be beneficial, and necessary, to buy it now,
or wait.

My waiting since it's launch has already paid off, as prices have  come
down from 4499€ at launch, to 3400€ now.

Like most other arrangers, it has to be tweaked and personalised until we are
satisfied that what we are hearing is the best sound we can get out of it, and
what we want our audiences to hear.

I am still tweaking my T3 while playing, 8 years after having bought it.

I just approach the Genos from a business point of view.

Do I need it to earn a living? Will it increase my income due to improved
sound quality? Will my audiences care whether I play this or another keyboard?
Does it have any new styles that could be useful to me and open up new
opportunities? Etc.

I am not " In Love " with it as some others claim to be.
In fact, I  have never been "In Love" with any instrument that I have owned.

Being not in love with my instrument does not make me a worse, or better,
musician in the eyes of most reasonable people.

Any musician who knows the highs and lows, and the pleasure and grief of
depending exclusively on performing to earn a living, will understand and agree
with what I'm saying.

My biggest priority every day, is to try and make myself a better musician
and human being.


Best Regards.
Abby.

[travlin-easy]

Abby, I agree 100-percent, especially about the business aspects. I looked at my keyboard as a tool to make a living, which it did for more than 30 years. Prior to that, I was a part time musician, and worked in other fields, which is a huge difference. When I was a weekend warrior musician/singer/entertainer I often used an inexpensive arranger keyboard, a PSR-500, which everyone enjoyed hearing. However, it was very rare to have someone say "I really loved how that keyboard sounded." The compliments were usually about my singing abilities and how much they loved my vocals. And, the same held true when I played a 12-string guitar and sang country music. They could care less that I was strumming a Yamaha, or a high priced Gibson or Ibanez. To them, it was my overall performances that kept them on the dance floor and kept them coming back, week after week to be entertained.

I pretty much tell everyone to ask themselves the same questions you posed pertaining to the business aspects of purchasing a new keyboard. It makes good sense!

Gary 

[Pianoman]

Abby, I agree 100-percent, especially about the business aspects. I looked at my keyboard as a tool to make a living, which it did for more than 30 years. Prior to that, I was a part time musician, and worked in other fields, which is a huge difference. When I was a weekend warrior musician/singer/entertainer I often used an inexpensive arranger keyboard, a PSR-500, which everyone enjoyed hearing. However, it was very rare to have someone say "I really loved how that keyboard sounded." The compliments were usually about my singing abilities and how much they loved my vocals. And, the same held true when I played a 12-string guitar and sang country music. They could care less that I was strumming a Yamaha, or a high priced Gibson or Ibanez. To them, it was my overall performances that kept them on the dance floor and kept them coming back, week after week to be entertained.

I pretty much tell everyone to ask themselves the same questions you posed pertaining to the business aspects of purchasing a new keyboard. It makes good sense!

Gary 

Very well said Gary.
You've conveyed my thoughts much better than I could possibly have
done myself.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[stephenm52]

Toril, This is one of the retirement communities I performed at regularly.

https://www.brightviewseniorliving.com/find-a-community/brightview-avondell/photo-gallery

This gives you an idea of how upscale these places really are in my part of the world.

Here's one in Florida, that has several similar facilities situated all over the USA. https://www.thevillages.com/

All the best,

Gary :cool:

Ditto what Gary wrote.  Interesting Brookdale and Brightview senior facilities are national we have quite a few facilities owned by them here in the small state of Rhode Island.

As for the Villages my wife and I spent 2 months there this past winter. In winter of 2019 we hope to be there for 3 months. It is a thriving 55+ community music nightly on 3 different town squares. This past winter I played a weekly piano solo gig in the lobby of a beautiful medical faciity I'm booked for next winter too.  The bit of negative is there are so many musicians who are retired from full time work that the pay scale is not as high as it is in the North East section of the US.

[maartenb]

the Master EQ on Flat and the Compressor set to OFF.

These are exactly my settings as well and my Genos sounds absolutely great!

I like to hear the sound Yamaha had in mind. Their mixing engineers are top notch, IMHO. So I have monitor speakers with a flat frequency response (HS7) in my living room and EQ to flat and compressor off. Turning the compressor off gives the sound more "bite".

I notice that the sound of the Genos is well balanced and has more bass than the Tyros 5.

The only EQ needed is to fix problems with the room or speakers, not with the sound of the Genos itself.


Maarten

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hello Gary.

My biggest priority every day, is to try and make myself a better musician
and human being.


Best Regards.
Abby.

Hi Abby,

1
What is your opinion on speakers. I have so far been using Genelec Studio monitos that are outrageously expensive and weigh 17 kg. One can still to-day get them from Thomann for over 2000 $ a piece.  They have served me well for  18 years, but now I am no more able to lift them in and out of my Range Rover that incidentally i also 18 years old.
Found  LTO speakers that weigh only 7.5 kg and cost 1/10  e.g. 200 $.  Now either my hearing is over the hill or technology has advanced. I did have to change the preamp treble a little bit lower, but after that they sounded to me and some friends indistinguishable from  the  costly ones playing the Genos,

2
I tried to comply with a request here to send the photos of the corrupted registry banks in my Genos, but I got a message "they had not passed security" .  That's what always happens to the fossil,  I do a lot of work and than everything is gone.

3
I also tried to send you a private message with my rendering of the tune "Crazy" played on Tyros 5/6 and on Genos,
to get an opinion about whether you can hear a difference or not. I cannot, but maybe MP3  is not good enough for such a judgement anyway. But of course I again got a message that it had not worked, this time  "time had run out."     Could you please send me an e-mail to my addresss v.freymann@welho.com so I could mail you the MP3 file.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[EileenL]

As we have said in your other threads we need the registration to try on Genos. Photo's will not tell us much.
It is very easy to upload a registration on here.

[Pianoman]

Hello Kaarlo.


About the speakers, I use two JBL EON 1500 as my main speakers, and a
Behringer B1500HP Subwoofer for my gigs.

The JBLs weigh 17 Kilos each, and the subwoofer weighs 42 Kilos.

The JBL speakers are passive, so I also use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX5000
powered mixer.

The Behringer subwoofer has 2200 watts, and adds great depth to the
overall sound during gigs.

A good and powerful subwoofer is an absolute must, to avoid having the
arranger sound like a cheap 100$ Casio.

This was my first reaction to the T3 when I first played it live on my JBLs.
It sounded cheap and terrible.

It sounded absolutely great on the Tyros speakers that came with it,
or on headphones, but not on my JBLs.

I had never had this problem when I was using a Roland G 800.

It took weeks of tweaking before I dared to play it in front of an audience again.
And I'm still constantly tweaking it as I play, depending on the room, or when
playing outdoor gigs.

I have sent you an E-mail in case you still want to send me the songs.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[travlin-easy]

Abby, I agree. First and foremost, a high quality sound system, including a good sub woofer, is an absolute must for any live performer. Additionally, as we grow older, we must eventually lighten the load, which was one of the many reasons I went with the Bose L1 PAS system many years ago. It had an incredibly powerful 10-inch, long throw sub, plus 24 speakers in the sound column. I performed for up to 1,200 people outdoors at a very noisy venue and had no problems rocking the place with the master volume only set slightly above the halfway mark.

Over the years, I have owned many, many arranger keyboards of various brands, including Korg, Roland, Yamaha and others. In every instance, those keyboards never left the office for up to 3 months while I tweaked and tuned them until I felt they were ready to go on stage and I was familiar and confident with the operating system. If I were to purchase a brand new Genos today, it would not be on stage until July. However, if after a few days of setting up the keyboard I didn't feel that Wow Factor, the keyboard would be returned and I would stick with what I already had enjoyed great success with over the years, even if I had to purchase a new keyboard of the same old model because the current board was just worn out from years of performing.

All the best,

Gary

[Pianoman]

Hello Gary.

How many sound columns and Subwoofers did  you use?
Meaning, did you use a separate Sub for each column?

Best Regards.
Abby.

[guitpic1]

Columns and subwoofers?

You guys must play in some huge venues?

[travlin-easy]

Abby, when I used the Bose L1 PAS, it was a single column with 24 tiny speakers and a separate 10-sub. When I later went to the Bose L1 Compact, I used two systems, which provided coverage for audiences to about 500 people. The standard Bose L1 was used in mono, however, both outputs from the keyboard were fired into the onboard mixer in separate channels, which when combined, provided outstanding sound quality and an incredible spatial coverage of nearly 210 degrees. The falloff from this system at 100-feet was less than 10 percent. Consequently, the audience heard the same volume 100 feet from the stage as those that were sitting just a few feet away. This eliminated the need for a monitor. The speakers were positioned behind me and off to the side. No feedback problems with this system, ever.

Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqw1JCq3V90

All the best,

Gary

[Lee Batchelor]

Gary, the Bose L1 1S has 12 tweeters. The L2 has 24 tweeters. Or, are you talking about a VERY old Bose system that had 24 tweeters and was called the L1? Not so today. Just curious.

[travlin-easy]

Guitpic, my largest audiences were often outdoor venues, concerts in the park, outdoor weddings, pool parties, and huge fishing tournaments. Audience size ranged from 300 to 1,500 people, often spread out over a large area such as a park measuring several acres in size. The only system I found that could handle the park jobs was the Bose L1 PAS. No conventional system proved quality sound at great distances - they all distorted at higher volumes.

Gary

[travlin-easy]

Lee, the L1 PAS was later replaced with the L1 Mod II, which is still available.

Gary

[Lee Batchelor]

Ah...thanks Gary. So, it is pre-L2. I use two Compacts with my own 15" sub design. It's killer!

[Pianoman]

Hello Gary.

Thanks for the video that you posted.

I've watched it and it makes a very convincing argument.

I've read about this system, but this video expains it better, especially with the
Visual and Aural comparison.

This may be something for me. My Subwoofer alone weighs 42 kilos

I lift it up to my chest twice a day, every day now, loading and unloading
from the car.

Then lift it again around the stage while positioning it, as well as all my
other gear.

All.my gig gear comes to a total of 185 kilograms, that I shift twice a day.

So this Bose L1 system might definitely be something for me.

Or perhaps the L2?

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Lee Batchelor]

Abby, in this day of technology there is no longer the need to use heavy gear for our venues. I use two Bose L1 Compacts (13 kilos each) and a home made 15 inch subwoofer (18 kilos). I can supply sound for up to 300. Gary's Bose system is even bigger at marginally more weight. My sub is probably louder, but it is overkill for most of our work.

At my age, I prefer to leave all the heavy lifting to the young rock stars who know nothing about dynamics .

[travlin-easy]

That Bose sub weighed just 26-pounds (11-Kilos) and would blow the windows out of any venue I performed. It was a long throw sub, which means it will go to very low frequencies and move lots of air. It was awesome to say the very least. Having worked with some monster subs many years ago, the long throw subs, some up to 3 inches of throw distance, were monsters back then, but today's technology has made a huge difference in the weight, which for this old man, saved my back.

All the best,

Gary

[Eric, B]

Hello Gary.

Thanks for the video that you posted.

I've watched it and it makes a very convincing argument.

I've read about this system, but this video expains it better, especially with the
Visual and Aural comparison.

This may be something for me. My Subwoofer alone weighs 42 kilos

I lift it up to my chest twice a day, every day now, loading and unloading
from the car.

Then lift it again around the stage while positioning it, as well as all my
other gear.

All.my gig gear comes to a total of 185 kilograms, that I shift twice a day.

So this Bose L1 system might definitely be something for me.

Or perhaps the L2?

Best Regards.
Abby.

Hi Abby,
I have 2 Bose L1 Compact and auditioned the L2 several times.
First off; the sound clarity and coverage is amazing and you will hear things you haven't heard before.
However if you are used to a 42 Kg Sub, you will be disappointed with the B1 sub.
The B2 sub is much better but not close to a 15 or 18 inch sub.
I also want to point out an alternative since you are interested in the L1 Model2.
Look at the LD systems from Maui :
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=8stih5f1demg3j9k8pm7hpf7q6
The Maui 28G2 is comparable to the L1 Model2.
I had a chance to audition the Maui on my last trip to Germany and liked them better than the Bose side by side.
And that for less than half the price
I know that might be a factor for you.
There are bigger options too ...
Don M here went from Bose to Maui and likes them better.
Several Synthzone members feel the same.
Just some food for thought.
I will be adding the Maui 28G2 to my rig in the near future.
You can ad extra subs if you need to. Very flexible system.
Good luck
Eric

[mcbrown]

Hi Abby,
I have 2 of the LD Systems MAUI 28 G2's which use the same audio principle as the video of the Bose system which Gary put up previously. They are rated at 1000 watts RMS with a peak of 2000 watts and a maximum SPL of 126 dB. The integrated 4-channel mixer offers a microphone input, a high-impedance instrument input for an electric guitar for example, an input for source devices with line level and furthermore a Bluetooth unit, which can be used in parallel to the 3.5 mm mini-jack input. If you need more control over your sound you could use an external mixer. I have a QSC TouchMix 30 Pro digital mixer as an option if I see a need outside of a basic set up.
The subwoofer weighs 19.7kg and the two tower sections are 5.6kg each. Great for fitting into your car when transporting.

It is a very versatile system and has 120 degree horizontal cover and 20 degree vertical cover which greatly reduces the possibility of feedback if using good quality microphones. When I was looking for a system the MAUI was 1/3 the price of the Bose equivalent.

I did a spreadsheet some time ago in January 2017 comparing some of the line array speaker systems which is attached as it seems to have disappeared since I posted it.

LD Systems website:
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=kg3aj3hhlu6p3e002gq30tabi0

Murray




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[DonM]

Abby, for your venues I believe the Maui 28s would be the best bang for the buck.
I use two Maui 5s.  I previously used two Bose Compacts, and before that the larger Bose line array systems, L1 and L2.
The Maui 5s are comparable in size and weight to the Bose Compacts, but they have a deeper, stronger bass, plenty of e.q. controls, more ins and outs and even Bluetooth capability if you ever need it.  AND they are half the price of the Compacts.
They will easily handle crowds up to 50 to 75, depending on the circumstances.
The 28's will handle much larger crowds.
As noted there is no need to haul around heavy p.a. equipment any more!

[Tankdave]

Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home?  or do they not work up close?

[guitpic1]

Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home?  or do they not work up close?

I use a pair of these for home monitor use.  I also use them when gigging for crowds around 50 folks or so.  They weigh in at 15lbs(6.8 kilos) each.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S1Pro--bose-s1-pro-multi-position-pa-system

[DonM]

They sound great up close.  Sitting right in front of two is like sitting in a recording studio!

[stephenm52]

Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home?  or do they not work up close?

I have a Maui 5 and a Bose L1 Compact.  When I'm not gigging I've got them set up in a home studio and they sound great.