FW 1.20: new function keyboard volume

[voodoo]

Hi,

I tested the new live control assign called ,,keyboard volume". It does what is was supposed to do: it changes volume of all keyboard parts without changing their balance.

How does this work: actually the new slider assign works as a multiplier (between 0% and 100%) applied to the volume CC7 of all keyboard parts. So sliding keyboard volume to max, we get the volume values as we see them in the mixer. Lowering keyboard volume, reduces all volume values accordingly.

But this new feature is limited in a strange way: it always applies to all 4 keyboard parts, left and right 1 to right 3. So it is not possible to reduce volume of only right parts leaving alone the left part.

This is the same dilemma as given with the MFC10 external midi foot controller, which may apply to a single part or to all keyboard parts, but not to right parts only.

Only way to control right parts only is using an expression pedal and apply it to right 1 to right 3. This expression does not send volume (cc7), but it sends cc11 (expression), which also conserves the balance between the parts.

So why is expression (cc11) no possible asssignment for live control?

And why is new keyboard volume not selectable for a subset of keyboard parts?

Uli

[SeaGtGruff]

Does the new keyboard volume function generate MIDI messages that you can monitor? I'm wondering if it's actually changing channel volume or just using channel expression? Not that that would matter, since the issue is about whether you can choose which keyboard parts you want the function to affect.

[voodoo]

Yes, the midi messages can be monitored. For example on an iPad connected by WiFi.

And it really does not send expression cc11, but modified volume cc7.

Uli

[valimaties]

Yes, the midi messages can be monitored. For example on an iPad connected by WiFi.

And it really does not send expression cc11, but modified volume cc7.

Uli

I didn't changed my OS... I have not time to that today...
So what you say, they missed up whit this updated feature. I send to them a mail where I said to assign cc11 not cc7... The picture I made was the same from assignable page, but in place of volume I wrote "Exp", from "expression". If they could have done as I mention, it was the best solution... So, I say again, they do as they think is better, not what we need We have to work with this solution, at least for a time.
Send them mail. I will send them too..

Regards,
Vali

[Joe H]

... Only way to control right parts only is using an expression pedal and apply it to right 1 to right 3. This expression does not send volume (cc7), but it sends cc11 (expression), which also conserves the balance between the parts.

So why is expression (cc11) no possible assignment for live control?

And why is new keyboard volume not selectable for a subset of keyboard parts?

Uli

It makes me wonder if the Yamaha programmers have no imagination... or just think arranger players aren't interested in this kind of implementation.

I think we have to keep telling Yamaha there is a new generation of arranger players who want some of... if not most features of their Performance keyboards.

Joe H

[EileenL]

Yamaha have done exactly what was asked for. A quick way to drop the overall volume or raise it without altering any other volumes, which it was doing. If you want more control then set up your volume pedal putting ticks where you want volumes to change with the pedal movement.

[Tankdave]

I dont understand this "new" feature, there was a "KBD" volume slider before on the right most slider was there not?

[voodoo]

Dave,

the old KBD slider did not preserve balance of part volumes. Moving the old slider always set all part volumes to the same value, thus destroying the mix. The new keyboard volume does preserve balance. This is a real advancement.

Uli

[valimaties]

Dave,

the old KBD slider did not preserve balance of part volumes. Moving the old slider always set all part volumes to the same value, thus destroying the mix. The new keyboard volume does preserve balance. This is a real advancement.

Uli

Yes, indeed, it is a very good approach, even if they use CC7 and not CC11. I don't care what they used behind as long as it works   For me is just fine as it is now this control. I don't need ever to change volumes only for R1 and R2 and not for R3. I have to install the OS tonight to check this feature It change physically the values?! If so, what happening when you have the slider in upper position and move down, when one of the voice reach 0 and then move the slider up?! 

Regards,
Vali

[Dromeus]

Yamaha have done exactly what was asked for.

I tend do disagree, Eileen. With the Kbd parameter you could select the parts that should be affected. Of course, we expected this for the KbdVol paramater too, which is an obvious requirement.

I think a much better solution would be to have a dedicated bus in the mixer for the keyboard parts. We have such buses already for Style (applies to 8 Style parts), Song (applies to 16 Song parts) and Muti Pad (applies to 4 Multi Pad parts). By default the Volume for these buses is 100, so you may not only decrease the volume but also to increase the volume of a Style/Song/Multi Pad as an entity, if needed. Very convenient.

The keyboard bus should be configurable, so you could choose which of the keyboard parts are routed to this bus. IMHO this would be a very flexible solution. It would solve the flaws of that new KbdVol parameter, offer new possiblilites and it would be easy to understand, because it's consistent with the buses we already have in the mixer.

This would be a major change in the Mixing Console, but hey, Yamaha's vision is clearly to be a world class company, so they should be able to do it  .

[jwyvern]

I dont understand this "new" feature, there was a "KBD" volume slider before on the right most slider was there not?

I can't see that it's new either. It seems like Company Speak for a Kbd error that arguably should not have been there in the first place, particularly since they knew what to do to get it right when they introduced the assignable slider on Tyros.

John

[metcam]

Yamaha have done exactly what was asked for. A quick way to drop the overall volume or raise it without altering any other volumes, which it was doing. If you want more control then set up your volume pedal putting ticks where you want volumes to change with the pedal movement.

That is right.

We have this on tyros 3,4 and 5 and worked wery well for me.

regards

[Bill]

Dave,

the old KBD slider did not preserve balance of part volumes. Moving the old slider always set all part volumes to the same value, thus destroying the mix. The new keyboard volume does preserve balance. This is a real advancement.

Uli

Hi ULI

My keyboard does not maintain the balance when adjusting the Keyboard volume.  After moving the slider all RH and the LH Voices change to the same value as the Slider.  Not very good in my opinion.

Bill

[valimaties]

Hi ULI

My keyboard does not maintain the balance when adjusting the Keyboard volume.  After moving the slider all RH and the LH Voices change to the same value as the Slider.  Not very good in my opinion.

Bill

Seems you don't have installed 1.20 firmware version If you did, re-assign Keyboard in Assignable page. Now, it has to work, without resetting volumes.

Regards,
Vali

[jwyvern]

My keyboard does not maintain the balance when adjusting the Keyboard volume.  After moving the slider all RH and the LH Voices change to the same value as the Slider.  Not very good in my opinion.

Bill

Bill, the old Kbd setting which does that still remains. Some sections of Yamaha must think it is somehow useful. I cannot understand stand why they didn't just delete and substitute it with the corrected one.
What you need to do is go to the assign page and find Keyboard Volume. Once you select it the small screen shows KbdVol  for that slider (not Kbd) and it should work without destroying the volume relationships.
John

[Bill]

Hi Vali & John

Many thanks for the info.  I did not have time to read through the revised manuals, It was a bit obscure however it is now sorted and much better

Regards

Bill

[Tankdave]

I have not adjusted he "live" controls before this, but I think I sussed it? picture to prove if I done good.



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[jwyvern]

Yes Dave,
You have set slider 9 (Type1) to Keyboard Volume.
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

If you want keyboard volume there is a vol knob for that

[Eric, B]

If you want keyboard volume there is a vol knob for that

Just tried it as I thought the same at first.
However if you look at it closely it makes a lot of sense as you can decide which part of the KB's volume changes: R1, R2, R3, Left, Style etc.
You can use check boxes to determine which part you want.
Very cool feature.
Eric

[Joe H]

Dave,

the old KBD slider did not preserve balance of part volumes. Moving the old slider always set all part volumes to the same value, thus destroying the mix. The new keyboard volume does preserve balance. This is a real advancement.

Uli

But I'm surpised they didn't just implement CC11 to accomplish that.  That would have been an easier way of doing it.

Joe H

[StuartR]

Just tried it as I thought the same at first.
However if you look at it closely it makes a lot of sense as you can decide which part of the KB's volume changes: R1, R2, R3, Left, Style etc.
You can use check boxes to determine which part you want.
Very cool feature.
Eric

Agree. Seems no matter what improvements Yamaha makes, there will be some that aren't happy. I for one am celebrating the fact that for, I believe the first time in their arranger history, Yamaha is adding features and not just fixing bugs.

[Tankdave]

I love all this flexibility they have provided.

[Joe H]

Agree. Seems no matter what improvements Yamaha makes, there will be some that aren't happy. I for one am celebrating the fact that for, I believe the first time in their arranger history, Yamaha is adding features and not just fixing bugs.

What appears to whining and complaining may not be... Some of us here have more technical understanding and see the flaws and shortcomings made by Yamaha.  I've been programming MIDI for a very long time.  Some things are just elementary for the experienced person.  The more educated we are (about MIDI) the more we tend to see (possibilities).



Joe H

[StuartR]

What appears to whining and complaining may not be... Some of us here have more technical understanding and see the flaws and shortcomings made by Yamaha.  I've been programming MIDI for a very long time.  Some things are just elementary for the experienced person.  The more educated we are (about MIDI) the more we tend to see (possibilities).



Joe H

As long as you don't limit your ideas to forum posts but also share them with Yamaha directly that's great. Because from what I'm seeing, there's very little if any support from Yamaha on this forum.

[Joe H]

As long as you don't limit your ideas to forum posts but also share them with Yamaha directly that's great. Because from what I'm seeing, there's very little if any support from Yamaha on this forum.

I have a long 25 year history with Yamaha Tech Support. And you should know I've seen told by Yamaha directly that they don't want to hear about new ideas directly from keyboard owners like me anymore. (for legal reasons so I've been told)  They told me to post my ideas right here on this forum and even provided a link (in an email) to this very forum.

Reporting bug fixes directly to Yamaha is a separate issue.

BTW... Yamaha is reading this forum on a regular basis even if they are not participating.

Joe H