Genos and the best Daw

[Jeff Hollande]

Very nice and interesting report, Mazeka ! Thank you !

I am a frequent Sonar Platinum user.
There is no reason for panic yet. This great DAW is usable for many years to come.

A new owner will be found and the Cakewalk show will go on, I may hope.

Yamaha should make a DAW that is suitable for all their arranger keyboards but I am almost sure it is a dream that never will come true.

Yamaha stopped the XGWorks update in 2002.

IMHO a big mistake.😈

If they would have updated XGW, the best sequencer for Yamaha keyboards and modules ever, many Yamaha keyboard owners would have been very happy and grateful.

Yamaha have never told the world why they are refusing to update XGW.

Yamaha know all present XGW users would like to see an XGW upgrade but they say nothing at all like the program never existed.😧

I am afraid we have to learn to live with this frustration.

Even Steinberg does not look to be ready to create a typical DAW for Yamaha arranger kbs.

For me it is difficult to understand why both manufacturers do not see the need and the extra turnover and profit source.

Jeff

[Oldden]

Hi Jeff,
Just to let you know that the XGWORKS user group is still in existence, and the could point you into the direction of getting SOL 1 and SOL 2 if interested. SOL 2 is in English but the help is in Japanese.
Oldden

[maartenb]

I saw a German video that I cannot understand, but from the graphics, I see Right 1 ,2 and 3 on tracks chord track and chord names. It seems It can mirror the Yamaha keyboard connected.

If you post a link, I might be able to translate the core message for you.


Maarten

P.S. I accidentally thanked your post, but I can't undo that...

[maartenb]

Thanks Heratch, for your great explanation!

I do use Cubase with UR824.

I'd also like to point out the Steinberg UR28M, which is cheaper and has Digital In, which is a great combination with Genos.


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
I like the look of Cubase 9.5 Elements as It will do all the Genos things for £87
You cannot go wrong .
The only thing Is the lack of Imformation from Steinburg/yamaha on how to set up the Genos with Cubase and make tracks.
I saw a German video and it seemed to show right  1 ,2 and 3 plus the Style channel and chords that It uses all there in front of you.
It is only good If you can understand German. "Einstien a go go"!!
I emailed yamaha yesterday and got a reply today.
In my email, I said can you do any video's or an online illustrated manual on how to use the Genos with Cubase properly
The reply was, there are no videos etc  You can connect your Genos via usb to computer.
I thought great ,we all know that!! Fantastic reply!!

[Kokoriz]

Hi Kokoriz, First go to menu 'Studio', select Audio Connections, tab along to External Instruments, select Add External Instruments, in the window that opens up select Associate Midi Device, select Midi Device, select Genos press ok. Then select under Device Port the Inputs you have your keyboard audio outputs connected to. i.e UR824 Input Then close window. Go to Rack and in the drop down menu select External Plug-ins, select Genos. You will be asked if want to associate a midi track with the device, click yes and in the input/output channels the instrument will appear as a VST device with the midi and audio set up as is normal with a VST. You can then treat your external keyboard as you would any other VST instrument and use all the effects you might normally apply, render, freeze as well. As it is a keyboard the mix down will of course happen in real time as opposed for the seconds it takes to render a normal VST. Hope this helps.

Christopher.

Christopher, thank you so much for this info and sorry just saw your post just now. I will try tomorrow morning and hope everything works. Am sure your post will help out lots of players who uses Cubase. Thank you again sir!

[SeaGtGruff]

I like the look of Cubase 9.5 Elements

I was about to reply that Cubase Elements doesn't come in the x.5 versions, but I just checked and sure enough Cubase Elements 9.5 is a thing! That makes me wonder why there was no Cubase Elements 8.5?

[Kokoriz]

I was about to reply that Cubase Elements doesn't come in the x.5 versions, but I just checked and sure enough Cubase Elements 9.5 is a thing! That makes me wonder why there was no Cubase Elements 8.5?

Just my guess but I think because 9.5 release finally supports 64-bit mixing engine where as before only 32-bit with additional new features.

[Spirit of the old South]

Hello,

Best DAW is a quality that reflects how you use it and if it able to perform function you need.

1- "All" DAW will do the same function one way or another. Possible few exception. but its true when comparing similar level of each brand.
2- When it comes to MIDI, I would say "all" DAW have accurate MIDI timing ( Depending on the MIDI interface used or direct USB connection) generally both cases are good.
3- Each DAW does have its own "color" when it comes to record and play back audio. When comparison is made using the same audio interface.
4- The protection method, it is what it is. One thing I like about the "dongle" is I can install the software on several computers, and move the dongle to any computer even if it not my computer. But, be carful not loose the dongle. you are safe if it gets damaged " it can be replaced and code will be transferred"
5- Audio interface is part of "Best" DAW experience. There is a happy integration for example between Cubase and UR interfaces. especially, the models that have DSP.
6- Instrument definition integration is a big plus otherwise not the end of the world. you can used LSB MSB. I still do that ... yikes......lol
7- Now that the Genos has the amazing number of DSP, when your are done with midi editing, print the parts with their DSP. They are top quality and relives you CPU fr other specialty plug in. I don't print the reverb or delay unless I am mixing along the way of composing or I am very sure of what I hear.

So in  the DAW, well in my DAW I do the following :
1- I use the Piano roll to edit the MIDI events. Notes and controllers such as expression. Specially the controllers for the SA2 voices.
2- The drum editor to edit the drum midi tracks.
3- Opens the midi file I capture on Genos using the real time recorder, or my favorite, the chord entry feature.
4- Does all the needed edits,
5- Creates the score for every part. And I actually print them on fancy paper, frame them and hang them on my wall. Very cool decor art.
6- I convert each midi track to audio by creating and audio track for each midi track and record it.
7- I use the divide midi function to separate the drum midi track based on pitch to separate MIDI tracks. Now I have kick, care, hats ..etc on separate tracks and then record them as separate audio tracks. for more profession control over the mix to my standards.... at lease I think I know what I am doing... haha haha.
8 -few more functions here and there.......

Remember, you can capture the music content from the Genos, or you can use the Genos as a supper 32 parts sound module. so can sequence 32 MIDI part, because the Genos has two MIDI ports, each with 16 Parts.

If you want to know, I do use Cubase with UR824.

Please don't hesitate to ask specific question about the process.

I might have some time to record a video on this process.

Sorry for snd spelling or wrong words, I just finished few dealer visits, and it is 1 am here in Baltimore away from home. I am still on LA time.



6-

Actually when it comes to DAW functionality

As of Cubase 9.5 the only thing missing is The session view from Ableton live/Bitwig/FL studio. It is primarily used to organize and trigger sets of MIDI and audio called clips. These clips can be arranged into scenes which can then be triggered as a unit. Its both an incredible tool for arranging your songs as wel as using the DAW as a live backing tool. The only thing that comes close is the pattern sequencer on my MOXf or the Motif series.

This would be a really nice feature for Cubase 10, especially since the Montage does not offer the pattern sequencer anymore, and Montage users are bound to Cubase for their sequencing needs.

[Christophermoment]

Hi, I understand from the Ableton forums that using Arranger tracks in Cubase is similar 'but not the same'.  Apparently Ableton has more options/features. According to Bad Mister on the Montage forum, quote "If you are using Cubase Pro 8 (or any full version of Cubase) you can setup the "Arranger Track" (Play Order) which allows you to recreate your Sections A-B-C-D-E-F etc. The Cubase Pro Arranger Track works like Pattern mode of the XF."

Christopher.

[SeaGtGruff]

Just my guess but I think because 9.5 release finally supports 64-bit mixing engine where as before only 32-bit with additional new features.

Version 9 is also 64-bit.

There was no Cubase Elements 8.5, and if I remember correctly Cubase Elements 9 wasn't available until several months after the other editions of Cubase 9, so I'd assumed that (1) the x.5 versions of Cubase aren't released for Cubase Elements, and (2) the newest version of Cubase Elements isn't released until sometime after the other editions. Yet here is Cubase Elements 9.5, proving both of those assumptions wrong!

[maartenb]

I saw a German video ... It is only good If you can understand German.

Did you miss my post above where I offered you to give you a translated message if you provide a link and time of the part you want translated? 


Maarten

[Alfred59]

Hi Christopher,
Thank you  for your instructions re connecting cubase to Genos which I have tried to do unsuccessfully. After 'add external instrument' and 'associate midi device' I don't see the Genos link. I get either 'no link' or 'create device'. Where have I gone wrong?
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Alfred

[garymoore]

Hi Jeff,
Just to let you know that the XGWORKS user group is still in existence, and the could point you into the direction of getting SOL 1 and SOL 2 if interested. SOL 2 is in English but the help is in Japanese.
Oldden

what is SOL  ??

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPHFfqLXd2w

Hi
I could only find The Tyros 5 with cubase In German,which I think Maarten understands
It would of course be similar to the Genos
It seems to have chord tracks and right 1,2 and 3  layout  instead of the usual track 1,2,3, so on like on other daws
Is this cubase now built for the Yamaha arranger/workstations or do you have to set up a template??

Barron Von Richthofen "over and out"!!

[Oldden]

Hi Garrymoore,
Sol was an update to XGWORKS, it was only sold in Japan. They improved the layout and it did quite a few things which even cubase and sonar still can't do especially if you are using one of the early PSR keyboards.
Oldden

[Oldden]

Hi Garymoore,
Just had a look on YouTube and there are videos, in Japanese, showing SOL2 and SQ01 and SQ02 which are very similar.
Oldden

[pjd]

Hi --

I've got SQ01 (v2.0.1E 2003) running on Windows 7. If I remember, it was a bear to find a copy of the installer and wasn't easy to get running under Windows 7.

For a while SQ01 and SOL were the platforms for audio production products. You might be able to find a copy for early Motif and other audio production products from the early 2000s.

I use SQ01 to host PLG and AN200 editors. It wasn't easy getting this ancient software to run under a modern OS and I'm not sure that I could do it again. 

Best of luck -- pj

[Joe H]

I've got Virtual Machine running on my Win 7 x64 Professional.

Download and install Virtual PC
Download and install XP Mode (this is a 32 bit version)
Download and install 32 bit Yamaha MIDI driver while running XP Mode.

I'm using an old (Windows 98 version) MIDI editor for my Korg NS5R sound module... works like a charm

Joe H

[pjd]

Hi Joe --

Good suggestions.

I just want to emphasize that getting crufty old software to run on Windows 7 and later is not for the faint of heart. You and I are both trying to keep our "museum pieces" up and running and we're crazy enough to do it.  I wouldn't want to rely on SOL/SQL for production.

All the best -- pj

[Oldden]

Hi pjs,
I had SOL2 running on my Windows 10 laptop a while ago, I got it from a link on XGWORKS user group and It ran fine. It's a shame Yamaha never got to develop it or sell it in Europe. Entering chords and styles on a grid was a doddle and when recording and playing back anything it never lost a control code. Happy Days.
Oldden

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Come on Joe
If you want to keep up with the tech ,you have to go Win 10 and a decent multicore computer these days.
I am 66 now and I will keep up when computers go Quantum leaping or It maybe me Quantum Leaping instead!! Who Knows!!


Another Sonar Refugee!!

[Joe H]

John,

It will be a long time before I move to Windows 10 (Only when I'm forced to).

I know some people don't care about their privacy... but I'm not one of them.  That's why I don't use Google Chrome either.

I've considered staying the XP as a dedicated MIDI machine (and not going online)

BTW... I sold 3 Atari TT030 machines to pay for my S970. Now I'm running my Atari software with an emulator on Win 7.  There are some unique MIDI applications that have never been produced for the PC or Mac.



Joe H

[XeeniX]

I try to stay anonymous by joining the masses Joe Feeding them so much data together with the rest of the world that they get overwhelmed :p It's imo the only way to stay as anonymus as possible if you still want to stay on the internet
I do get why you do/try it though.

Did you already have a go at the challenge of converting/adjusting Genos EDM styles? I leave those alone in my conversions. Don;t have a clue about EDM ;ike Jan and you do.

kind regards,
Peter

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I am 66 now and Inside 30 years I will not be here .
So what If the Internet is looking!!
As long as your bank accounts are safe and you are well protected.
As long as we use technology for tools only, nothing to worry about.

There Is smart meters now that can tell when your home or not , I phones which send info back to the government.
Even through the Tv s now things are watching you and your habits to send you what they think you like.
Who knows what else.
It all comes down to "WHAT IF"

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Cubase  Elements is the way to go!!! for the moment

How do we not know that someone might pick up Sonar and release It cheaper.
Sonar of course will work for a good while. Even Mixcraft may have a hand In It . Nobody knows yet but daw companies are scrabbling to get new customers at half price.
I still think It is best to hold back for a year as new offers will surface and Elements will best to get used to Cubase as they might go bust!! who Knows!! What If
There is a Sonar gap to be filled by a shrewd business man or Ex Sonar programmers

One Daw closes another Daw will open!!

[Tyros Trax]

Band In a Box 2018 version has just arrived as well by PG Music-Canada. If you are not familiar with Band in a Box and their "Real Tracks," check out some demo videos on YouTube. The RealTracks are equivalent to Yamaha's SA Voices which have been recorded by professional musicians in studios.

IMO, Biab is the best DAW for making professional backing tracks / recordings with. I have been using it since we've had the internet.

Trax

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Why buy Band In a box ,when you have a Genos in a trunk???

[Joe H]

Peter,

I don't have any Genos EDM styles to work on.  Where do I find them?  I would love to have all the Genos dance styles and... those many Genos Multi Pad banks.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Just use one finger and keep pecking away like a chicken

Instant EDM. All you need is a singer that can go Moo Moo Mooo!!
You will have a top ten hit!!