Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake

[Spirit of the old South]

Lloyd,  I think your last sentence says it bet "no keyboard is better than the rest, it's what your ears hear.

While sound is important, there is more, then just what your ears hear.

IF the best sounding keyboard only had 2 variation, 1 intro and 50 styles and 50 sounds on board..
It would still be the best to your ears.
But would it be your choice?

With all high end keyboards sounding this great.
Could the functionality they offer be what makes them a great deal?

[guitpic1]

Good point not to make a hasty decision. 

I had the Tyros 4, still have the PSR S970.  Currently I gig with the PA4X.  The comparison of styles and voices is always interesting to me as it seems people prefer either Yamaha or Korg and seem to be in one camp or the other.  I was pleasantly surprised at the excellent styles and voices of the PA4X coming from my Yamaha's which I also thought were good.

That said, coming from a Yamaha background, it took me the better part of six months to get anywhere as comfortable with the 4X as I was with Yamaha.

If you are "stuck" with the PA4X for one reason or another, perhaps more time with the 4X would be beneficial?

[agoldstraw]

Update: I've had a better week with the Korg – it makes much more sense as a product once you begin to customise it and make it your own. For example, many of the styles are too busy even at Variation 1, but once stripped back, thing sound much better and there is more room to play. And now I'm combining my own voices and customising mixes, EQ etc, I'm starting to like what I hear a lot more.

No, it's not a Tyros – and maybe that's what I need to get over. We'll see. If I get a decent offer for it before Christmas, I may still sell, otherwise we'll see how we go. One thing some commenters have right – it would be nice to have both machines! That may be a bit of a push financially with Genos, but I might be able to afford to add a T5 at a decent price. Hmm. Decisions, decisions...!

[Tommy 73]

The PA4X is a deep keyboard compared to Tyros/Genos so you do really need to give the PA4X time....BUT... the Genos Revo drum kits are very good indead and korg don't have some of the sounds that Yamaha have worked hard on... so from my personal perpective (with out detail) i am happy with the PA4X & Montage fusion and if Yamaha consider a PRO version of Genos (unlikely) then I may reconsider but in that time the PA5X would of entered the Arena..... 

[Jeff Hollande]

Why shooting a winning horse like the Korg PA4X ?
That would be a real mistake, I guess.   

Take your time to learn all the PA4X arranger kb details and you will be a real winner !
If you want to add an extra Yamaha kb, buy you an S770 or S970.

The combination of the two super brands is great !
I just ordered the PA700 as an addition to my S770.
Hope to receive it one of these days.

Jeff

[guitpic1]

Why shooting a winning horse like the Korg PA4X ?
That would be a real mistake, I guess.   

Take your time to learn all the PA4X arranger kb details and you will be a real winner !
If you want to add an extra Yamaha kb, buy you an S770 or S970.

The combination of the two super brands is great !
I just ordered the PA700 as an addition to my S770.
Hope to receive it one of these days.

Agoldstraw,

The more you work with the 4X, the more capabilities you will find in that keyboard.  There's not much it can't do and if you're a gigging musician, you will find out how well laid out the board is for that purpose. 

Jeff

My combo of the PA4X and PSR S970 covers all the musical bases that I need to cover.  Both keyboards have their individual strengths.  I have said this before, and will say it again, the PSR S970 is an excellent keyboard for the money.

Agoldstraw,

Regarding the PA4X, the more you work with the 4X, the more you will come to discover what a capable keyboard it is.

[terryB]

Its a pity that Korg doesn't do a module version of PA4X like they did years ago with I5m? (I think or something similar), which could possibly midi link with a Genos or Tyros/PSR

Cheers
Terry

[agoldstraw]

This is a real Jekyll and Hyde relationship. Today, I got frustrated by the styles. The voicings seem very 'one dimensional' – progressions from one chord to the next always sound a bit contrived and artificial. For some reason, I also find it much harder to play 'cleanly' on the Korg too. One side of my brain tells me that I ought to love this keyboard, the other shrugs and says 'ain't happening'.

[stephenm52]

This is a real Jekyll and Hyde relationship. Today, I got frustrated by the styles. The voicings seem very 'one dimensional' – progressions from one chord to the next always sound a bit contrived and artificial. For some reason, I also find it much harder to play 'cleanly' on the Korg too. One side of my brain tells me that I ought to love this keyboard, the other shrugs and says 'ain't happening'.

In my early days of owning a Korg I went thru some of the same things you're going thru.  Not sure when but it was probably when I moved to the Pa2x-Pro, that changed my mind.  You sound like someone who would be happier with a Genos.

[agoldstraw]

Or very possibly a clean, used T5/76. That's the way my thoughts are winging at the moment. No further huge expense and pretty close to the Genos in capabilities, tbh. I've just had a look at Peter Baartmans' Kraft demo of the T5 and thought: Yup, hell of a lot of mileage still left in that machine.

[guitpic1]

Don't know if I'll explain very well but here goes...

My S970(and Tyros4 before that) has a sort of "compressed/limited/blended" sound to me.  It's as if no one part of the style or voice greatly overshadows any other part.  Still it sounds very good. I like this for home play.

On the the other hand, my PA4X tends to sound more like a live band to me where voices/and style parts are separated and where some parts may be a tad louder than others.  Ironically, this sound actually makes for a better live playing situation for me as some parts stand out more than others...as might occur in a live band setting.  Sounds more real to me...and sounds more real to my audiences I believe.

It can be an adjustment getting used to the sound of a 4X.  I now find that when I go back to my S970, from the 4X, it takes a while for me to get used to that more compressed sound.

[Pianoman]

Hello Guitpic.

I think this is the clearest description that I have heard so far about the Korg PA4X.

I have spent days, if not weeks, listening to, and watching, every available video on YouTube over the past month about the Korg.

I have always come to the same conclusion as you have just described.

I does sound alive, like a real live band playing.
I don't know what they did, or how they did it , but when you close your eyes and try to shut out the idea that you're listening to an arranger keyboard, it does sound like you're listening to an authentic band playing live in front of you.

Especially the R&B and the Level 42 type of slapping Bass Funk.

We sure live in interesting times right now.

There is a Chinese curse that says " May you live in interesting times ."

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Pianoman,

I fully agree with your statement about the Korg's sound.😄

In general one may say the Yamaha high end arranger keyboards are very suitable for home use with a great CD sound, a plug-and-play instrument whilst the Korg might be more suitable for giggers and/or recording studio musicians.

Both arrangers are professional instruments with a great but a different sound.
All depends on the personal needs and wishes of the individual musician, IMHO.

It might be a mistake to say one brand is " better " than the other, I guess.
It is natural to think one prefers one of the two brands.

Personally I like the combination of both arrangers. I like them both.

I also like the combo of MAC and Win home computers.

Jeff

[stephenm52]

Hi Pianoman,



It might be a mistake to say one brand is " better " than the other, I guess.
It is natural to think one prefers one of the two brands.

Personally I like the combination of both arrangers. I like them both.

I also like the combo of MAC and Win home computers.

Jeff

I'm of the same thought process.   This afternoon I'll take the Pa4x for a 1 hour show, tomorrow the Genos goes with me to a open house for family and friends at an assisted living facility.  Tomorrow's program is all instrumental Christmas music, no vocals. Either board will do the job very well, last few years I've used either the Pa3x or Pa4x at this facility. I like them both.

[Pianoman]

Hello Jeff and Stephen.

I have agreed with Guitpic's assessment of the Korg because, as I said, I have been watching countless videos of the instrument for over a month now.

I have also been watching many Genos and T5 videos as well. It just happens to be that there are many more T5 and Pa4x videos on YouTube,  because mostly both instruments have been around longer.

It's really not about which brand is better,  as you've both admirably explained.
A T5, from what I've heard so far, would also suit me perfectly.

There are private sellers online selling their T5s. They're all on the mainland, selling at unreasonable prices, and the only way i could get to try one in the flesh is to first transfer a big amount of money. There are too many scam artists here nowadays.

There was a Spanish gentleman who addressed me in Spanish (which caused a bit of a brouhaha) a couple of days ago, who was recommending  a store on the mainland which still sells a T5. The only one I have seen so far.
The price difference between the T5 and the Genos would then be 700€.

So I might as well get the Genos. I have broken many buttons on my T3 because of using too much force in the heat of the moment when performing.

That's why I want to get a new board before it's too late, and I end up getting embarrassed on stage by a keyboard that won't power up.

Apart from that, I have, and still do, always owned Yamaha instruments, from sound gear to keyboards, Stage Pianos and organs.

I am still waiting for my unreliable dealer here to deliver the Genos that I've ordered to demo.
They should have one in the store to demo anyway, whether I end up buying it or not.

With all that said, I have been deeply impressed by the live sounding styles of the Korg on videos.
I have not seen or tried one in the flesh though.

Maybe I'll also buy a future Pa5x when it comes around.
I've read somewhere that the next one will be in 2019.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Pianoman,

Why not buying a nice second hand T4, T5 or a PSRS 970 in  Germany, in Belgium or in The Netherlands ?

Shipping it to your nice place will not be a problem, payment neither.

I am willing to help you out if you need assistance.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[stephenm52]

My 2 pennies worth, knowing what I know now if given the choice between a T4 or T5, I would and did replace the T5 with a Pa4x.  I know it's all very subjective to what each of us hears.  Just sharing a bit of the experience I had.

[Pianoman]

Hi Pianoman,

Why not buying a nice second hand T4, T5 or a PSRS 970 in  Germany, in Belgium or in The Netherlands ?

Shipping it to your nice place will not be a problem, payment neither.

I am willing to help you out if you need assistance.

Best wishes,

Jeff

Thanks for the suggestion and the offer Jeff.

I prefer to buy in Spain for VAT (BTW) and personal Income purposes. Each EU country has a different VAT rate and it's a mess.

My accountant did find a solution the last time I bought something (a phone) from outside of Spain.

His solution was to deduct the VAT and personal Income in one big lump. As a personal expense,  and not the 2 things separately. But he said he could only do it once, as an exception.

If I buy something here in Spain, I get to deduct 100% of the VAT immediately, which means an immediate 840€ deduction on an instrument that costs 4000€. The rest I get to deduct from my trimestrial income declaration.

That's why I'm still searching for a keyboard in Spain, despite the frustration.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[Jeff Hollande]

If you have a VAT number and you are buying from another CE country your VAT % = 0 %. In other words you do not have to pay any VAT at all. Ask your accountant.

Jeff

[travlin-easy]

Sure glad we do not have a VAT here in the states. It would drive me nuts! I do all my own accounting - that's how my hair turned white.

Gary

[Pianoman]

If you have a VAT number and you are buying from another CE country your VAT % = 0 %. In other words you do not have to pay any VAT at all. Ask your accountant.

Jeff

I will Jeff, and thanks.
And I do have a VAT number.
I have an accountant who deals with this stuff, so I can just concentrate on the music.
I was just repeating his advice about a phone I  bought from the UK last year.

I have no problem when buying from Thomann for example.
I get my Invoice with the right VAT figure, which is 21%.
They have Thomann España here. I'm not sure at this moment if the bill is from Thomann Spain or Thomann Germany.

But i will ask him. With the phone business, he said it was complicated because the UK had a different VAT rate.
I still got to deduct everything, but in a single block, as a professional expense,
Instead of doing separate deductions.
One for VAT and the other for personal income.

I a a self employed (Zelfstandig) musician, and have to pay taxes and VAT every 3 months. So if I  buy a keyboard in March, I can deduct it in April when I have to declare the 1st Trimester.

I'll go pick his brains on Monday. But you can't avoid VAT, just like death.
You'll either pay in the country of origin, or the destination country.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.