What is NEW in GENOS

[Marcus]

Hi friends,

Unfortunately that site was created by the people who love <too much-in my opinion> Yamaha.
Why would I fight this man? Because he promotes the Yamaha brand for <OF> and sounds amazing?
For sure Genos will be at least like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lfyRmY7OM
Enjoy the music!
Mihai

You are correct Mihai. I watched Orgaforum videos for years. Lulik appears to be a very nice man promoting Yamaha. The best Tyros 5 introduction demo videos came from Orgaforum and Fly-music featuring Peter Baartmans. Looking forward to perhaps live Genos videos as well.

Lulik is a forum member. In the Tyros 5 forum, one of his videos featured a nice piano sample that some were inquiring about. I am sure if someone sent him a friendly PM, he would response and give one info on the piano sample and how to get it for your Tyros 5. If there is a re-post or duplicate link to a video, I simply skip it. I don't see the reason for the fuss.

Watch the official Yamaha Genos site for further Genos info and full reveal in time. At least when we see an unofficial video of someone actually playing a Genos, at least we'll know it isn't fake and draw our own conclusions.

Marcus

[Misu]

Dear Marcus,

Thanks for your support. I have a friend, dealer of Yamaha, he sale in one store more than all stores Yamaha from my country because of the Romanian pack made by Iulik and sale for free for the customers of my friend, including me.
Iulik doesn't have time to administrate the site and the administrators are not so nice so for this I say <I don,t like the site>
Once I was out.
My friend was invited to the 18.09.2017 presentation so for sure this person know better than anyone of us.
I will be present on the official lunch of Romania.
What I don't understand is way this <war> <don't like - don't look>
Even someone make a mistakes let's be nice, the life it's short.
Maybe tomorrow I will put from YouTube a representative link for discussions of Maarten Bijster, why must be forbidden to use OF videos.

Let's be happy, with hope, for the new keyboard, and wait few weeks.
Mihai

[Misu]

Hi

For the people which have more theoretical knowledge than me, from my corner of the world, an simple opinion from one (and many are agreed with him) of the players regarding the customer expectations, and this didn't come from <OF>

<Genos uses internal SWPE70, a 16 GB internal NAND FLASH tuner with data rates of 780 Mb per second. So enough processing has. This chip supports 512 polyphony, but only half of that face (256 polyphony) is used. Processing power surely this keyboard have, surely it will have a great sound, let's see how it will stand at the function side and how easy is to use them.
Has he made his way to a real arranger or remained to a great <player> of everything (styles & sound) made by help of software computer.

2 GB option has T5 (and probably T4 if we can put the 2 GB plate works, but I have not seen anyone have a 2 GB board); at Genos of the 2 GB, probably the 200 mega missing uses them for samples with which new internal tones are made.
It's kind of a T5 with more tones, another interface and more controllers on the face, plus some from s970 (DJ issues) and A3000 (joystick)

If it has the same creative style as the rest of their arrangers without Chord Variations (different formula for, at least, 7 and dim) we will have the same problem.
That's what I understand from the specifications: Style SFF and Style GE, that is, those that also support audio loops on the drum, so they have the same format for style, without CVs, although in their software you can define how many resumes you want, it's not like Korg, because instead of 48 midi tracks arranged in 6 resumes CV, they have 46 tracks, one drum + 45 for anything else in any kind CVs you want to define, provided you do not exceed the number of tracks, only that Yamaha do not release this software and I mean to give it to buy it, not to get it>
This was one of us, and it was interesting for me, maybe for you also!
Let see more Monday.

Regards
Mihai

[Marcus]

Hi

For the people which have more theoretical knowledge than me, from my corner of the world, an simple opinion from one (and many are agreed with him) of the players regarding the customer expectations, and this didn't come from <OF>

<Genos uses internal SWPE70, a 16 GB internal NAND FLASH tuner with data rates of 780 Mb per second. So enough processing has. This chip supports 512 polyphony, but only half of that face (256 polyphony) is used. Processing power surely this keyboard have, surely it will have a great sound, let's see how it will stand at the function side and how easy is to use them.
Has he made his way to a real arranger or remained to a great <player> of everything (styles & sound) made by help of software computer.

2 GB option has T5 (and probably T4 if we can put the 2 GB plate works, but I have not seen anyone have a 2 GB board); at Genos of the 2 GB, probably the 200 mega missing uses them for samples with which new internal tones are made.
It's kind of a T5 with more tones, another interface and more controllers on the face, plus some from s970 (DJ issues) and A3000 (joystick)

If it has the same creative style as the rest of their arrangers without Chord Variations (different formula for, at least, 7 and dim) we will have the same problem.
That's what I understand from the specifications: Style SFF and Style GE, that is, those that also support audio loops on the drum, so they have the same format for style, without CVs, although in their software you can define how many resumes you want, it's not like Korg, because instead of 48 midi tracks arranged in 6 resumes CV, they have 46 tracks, one drum + 45 for anything else in any kind CVs you want to define, provided you do not exceed the number of tracks, only that Yamaha do not release this software and I mean to give it to buy it, not to get it>
This was one of us, and it was interesting for me, maybe for you also!
Let see more Monday.

Regards
Mihai

Interesting facts on that internal SWPE70 chip and 512 polyphony capacity. Nice the new Genos has huge processing power and room to breathe and expand into the future.

Not sure how the Genos memory is going to be allocated, but that internal 2 GB board is most likely for expansion packs. Two GBs should be plenty, because my need for expansion voices will most likely diminish or overwhelmed with the new upgraded voices and drum kits added to the Genos, never mind the new feature of adding audio tracks. It would be nice to be able to use all previously purchased expansion packs from my Tyros models. The 200 MB missing is probably just for formatting and installed software on the 2 GB board. All internal Genos voice samples waves or custom expansion voices or drum kits made from internal Tyros sounds are not included in the 200 MB partition.

We'll see if non drum audio tracks will follow chords, but at least pitch and time stretch was confirmed in the specs. Even easy access into creating your own audio drum track would be cool. Previously, the Tyros 5 YEM did give us the capacity to create one's own REX audio drum style track, but limited to style Main variation "A"(and then could be copied over to other Main variations in Style Creator). Also would require some software work on your PC along with working with the YEM.

Yes, it would seem that Yamaha will give us some software options and maybe programs along side the YEM (Yamaha Expansion Manager) and Apple apps. I do prefer working with software for some Voice creation, but some on-board Genos creation features and deeper editing would be nice or even through an app. Not sure how Yamaha will tackle the more complex Voice Creator, but improvements to the on-board Song/Style/Multipad Creators would be welcomed, especially in light of that nice 9 inch touch screen.

Too bad a lot of forum members have to communicate through Google translate or other translating means, but always a joy hearing other people's views. Hopefully not too much is lost or misinterpreted in the translations. Marvelous that technology allows us to communicate around the world, just as music can be universal. 

Regards, Marcus

[Marcus]

Thats not how the technollogy works.

In the Montage, there was 8 GB sample memmory, from which 1.8Gb was reserved for the expansion sounds... the rest of the memmory was for build in sounds...

They made a step up from rom and ram sounds, everything resides in one place..  much like in modern day pc's  ... thats under the hood....  in the os however you will not see much difference compared to the T5 with build in sounds and user sounds..

Biggest gain for user, low loading times for new samples

So what you are saying is, the 58 GB and 1.8 GB is partitioned from the same internal Genos memory. Probably a SSD. So if the Genos uses a similar YEM interface for expansion packs and voices, their will be no more reformatting of that 1.8 GB partition when new packs are installed? That would be nice. Still odd that Yamaha didn't make the Expansion memory an even 2 GB or even give us a generous 4 or 5 GBs.

Thanks,
Marcus   

[Marcus]

No, the 58 gb is the build in hard disk(ssd)

The imternal memmory i guess will be the same as in the Montage so thats 8 GB, it will be used for system memmory, onboard samples and there will be 1.8GB reserved for user samples..

So the combined  8 GB internal memory with the 1.8 GB reserved for user samples is separate from the 58 GB ssd. Again, if the Genos uses a similar YEM system as the Tyros 5 for expansion memory using that 1.8 GB reserved partition, reformatting will not occur each time expansion packs or editing occurs via the YEM or do you think user samples are loaded to the Genos directly skipping the YEM system? Could be a big plus if reformatting does not occur and time saved.

Thanks again for your insight.
Marcus

[EileenL]

58 Gb built in drive seems very small as compared to the Tyros 5 500Gb. Hope we do not have to use USB sticks for storage as I prefer everything in one place.

[metcam]

I thing 58GB internal memory is same as 16MB on PSR S 770.970,A3000,

That is huge improvement.

External storage will be probably USB,,same as PSR-S keyboards.

[EileenL]

Using USB sticks would be like taking a step backwards. The one thing I miss on my 970 is a hard drive.

[Jeff Hollande]

And what about external hd's ?
When they are powered will they not work ?

Plse advise, Experts !

Thanks. 👋


Jeff

[Misu]

Hi,

That 58 GB are instead of HDD or SDD and is on board (like micro SD on the back of new generation of Korg's)
I will be happy if will be not true.

Regards
Mihai

[soundphase]

On audiokeys, someone tells us he played Genos this morning

(Cremone in Italy, a show for classical instruments, this morning.He said Yamaha invited him to a private demo in a private room).
http://www.cremonamusica.com/

very good sound dynamic
very good orchestral sounds
16 velocity levels
"New feedback sound system" I don't understand... It concerns "whoofer sound or usage"

Conclusion : Overall better sound quality


He has a PA4X and indicates that Genos orchestral sounds are far better than PA4X ones

It was a beta version since Yamaha is currently modifying the user interface.


Difficult to know if it's real or not.

Soundphase

[Kari V]

On audiokeys, someone tells us he played Genos this morning

(Cremone in Italy, a show for classical instruments, this morning.He said Yamaha invited him to a private demo in a private room).
http://www.cremonamusica.com/

very good sound dynamic
very good orchestral sounds
16 velocity levels
"New feedback sound system" I don't understand... It concerns "whoofer sound or usage"

Conclusion : Overall better sound quality


He has a PA4X and indicates that Genos orchestral sounds are far better than PA4X ones

It was a beta version since Yamaha is currently modifying the user interface.


Difficult to know if it's real or not.

Soundphase

The "whoofer" is probably the subwoofer (which is efficient according to him).

You'll find the whole thing translated by Google here (message # 1033):

https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiokeys.net%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%2F51101-Yamaha-GENOS%2Fpage104&edit-text=

[pjd]

That's not how the technology works.

In the Montage, there was 8 GB sample memory, from which 1.8Gb was reserved for the expansion sounds... the rest of the memory was for build-in sounds...

Agree with Bachus. Folks, there's several different physical memory units in an arranger. Bachus is referring specifically to the waveform memory. The waveform memory directly feeds the tone generator (SWP70).

The 58GB internal drive, etc. is a separate unit from the waveform memory and other memory components/devices.

This discussion seems to be getting out ahead of hard information yet to be stated/released by Yamaha. I'm waiting to see how Yamaha specifies all of this and I'm also interested to see what kinds of memory management improvements they have made in YEM.

All the best -- pj

P.S. In the Montage, that's 8GB linear equivalent when the samples are uncompressed. The Montage waveform memory is 4GB physical. It gets confusing because user samples are uncompressed.

[pjd]

https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiokeys.net%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%2F51101-Yamaha-GENOS%2Fpage104&edit-text=

Hey, Kari, thanks for posting that link!

I never know who's opinion to trust when I wade into an unfamiliar forum. That's one reason why I keep coming back here. By now, we generally know who the trustworthy voices are, or not.

One yellow caution flag! The poster said that Yamaha was reluctant to discuss editing features. I'm not freaking out, but this is why I'm waiting for more official info from Yamaha. A manual would be great right about now.  There is still sooooooooo much that we don't know about this machine and it's all stuff that matters a lot to a skilled player.

I keep hoping for a leaked manual, but I think I can wait until Monday. 

All the best -- pj

[Kari V]

Agree with Bachus. Folks, there's several different physical memory units in an arranger. Bachus is referring specifically to the waveform memory. The waveform memory directly feeds the tone generator (SWP70).

The 58GB internal drive, etc. is a separate unit from the waveform memory and other memory components/devices.

This discussion seems to be getting out ahead of hard information yet to be stated/released by Yamaha. I'm waiting to see how Yamaha specifies all of this and I'm also interested to see what kinds of memory management improvements they have made in YEM.

All the best -- pj

Of course this is speculating: this is what we are doing here all the time.

However, if I were to design the Genos HW, the first approach would be to combine the mentioned two flash memories into one in order to make it more cost efficient. Technology works as it's designed to work. Let's say that I'm a bit disappointed of the original wording.

The stated 58 GB "SSD" size is strange: usually SSD sizes come as powers of two. So the logical size would be 64 GB.

Misu said above:
<Genos uses internal SWPE70, a 16 GB internal NAND FLASH "tuner" with data rates of 780 Mb per second.>

So Yamaha appear to use the NAND Connector Specification Version 4.0 (of the ONFI): published on April 17, 2014, it introduced the NV-DDR3 interface and increases the maximum switching speed from 533 MB/s to 800 MB/s, providing a performance boost of up to 50% for high performance applications enabled by solid-state NAND storage components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_NAND_Flash_Interface_Working_Group

[Tommy 73]

16 velocity levels..
Can only be done if the main sound cosist out of 16 elements
That means that it actually consist out of 2 or more awm2 voices (which has 8 elemenst and so a max of 8 velocity levels)

So basically this could comfirm an early leak.
That each of the main sounds consist out of up to 4 awm2 sounds..

Bachus if you get to a Genos before me and as we both have PA4X I would be very interested to here your thoughts ...here or in the other place ...

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Never worry about space for samples or anything as a separate hard drive is all you need.
If people are performers In clubs , then just use what you need for that set ,and all other backed up to a hard drive.
I reckon the Genos will have plenty of headroom for the studio and performer

People are worried about arpegiators WHY!!??   Use vst' s. Go great with the Genos or Tyros 5  skys the limit combinations
The Genos with those physical sliders and assignment s will blow you out of the water
The sounds will have to be better and going by Fred saying this thing is crazy the Genos Is a no brainer

Or am I just ARPING ON!!!!
What is the fuss with arps as all it means that you have to play a little more without them ,that's all, otherwise sit back and listen to Pink Floyd

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[Tommy 73]

Tommy, i promised myself that i would only upgrade the pa4x if the new instrument could replace both the kronos as well as the pa4x..

Since the Genos will not have 88 keys, i would hve to break that promise, i dont think i am ready to break that promise yet..

Certainly not witouth having heared and played the Genos..

lol...I know how you feel ...well when you do I'm all ears 

[Marcus]

Tommy, i promised myself that i would only upgrade the pa4x if the new instrument could replace both the kronos as well as the pa4x..

Since the Genos will not have 88 keys, i would hve to break that promise, i dont think i am ready to break that promise yet..

Certainly not witouth having heared and played the Genos..

Why not keep the Kronos, upgrade the PA4X to the Genos, have the best arranger technology while having the best offerings of each brand and still having an 88 key board? You could still play Genos voices and sounds via MIDI with the Kronos.

I do understand your perspective that an 88 key Genos version would be a nice combination/compromise and easier on the pocket book with one board, however the more powerful compromise would be a Kronos/Genos combo, plus the names go nicely together.

Marcus

[Tommy 73]

Never worry about space for samples or anything as a separate hard drive is all you need.
If people are performers In clubs , then just use what you need for that set ,and all other backed up to a hard drive.
I reckon the Genos will have plenty of headroom for the studio and performer

People are worried about arpegiators WHY!!??   Use vst' s. Go great with the Genos or Tyros 5  skys the limit combinations
The Genos with those physical sliders and assignment s will blow you out of the water
The sounds will have to be better and going by Fred saying this thing is crazy the Genos Is a no brainer

Or am I just ARPING ON!!!!
What is the fuss with arps as all it means that you have to play a little more without them ,that's all, otherwise sit back and listen to Pink Floyd

We love Pink Floyd...here they are in my studio...

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[Thecooltool]

OMG Unbelievable! Thank you for Joystick vs that stupid wheels. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Best improvement on this model!

[Joe H]

We love Pink Floyd...here they are in my studio...

Yea... on a computer monitor.  LOL

Joe H

[Tommy 73]

Yea... on a computer monitor.  LOL

Joe H

no in my studio framed on the wall

[Joe H]

Bachus,

But... Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am waiting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.



Joe H

[Tommy 73]

Hay Joe.. ..

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[Stubby]

I keep hoping for a leaked manual, but I think I can wait until Monday. 

A question for those familiar with Yamaha's habits -- do they usually publish their manuals before their new keyboards hit the shelves?  Leaked manuals are another issue, tho.

[Tommy 73]

Here is the old girl saying hello to you....if you still don't believe me joe....

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[Joe H]

Here is the old girl saying hello to you....if you still don't believe me joe....

What part of town do you live in?  I can be there in a hour!

               

Joe H

[Tommy 73]

So is see pa4x to the left, kronos in lower position...

Now you got me wondering what on top?

this photo missing drawmer 1973

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