Yamaha PSR-EW400 vs Casio WK 7600

[SmokeyD]

Hi Guys,

I've been looking to buy a new keyboard and have cut down my options to these two keyboards, the new Yamaha PSR-EW400 or the Casio WK-7600.

(I know these are Yamaha forums but hopefully some people here know a thing or two about the Casio.)

I can purchase these keyboards for roughly the same price, $580 AUD for the Yamaha, and approx $600 AUD for the Casio. Here are the links containing the info :

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalkeyboards/portable_keyboards/psr-ew400/

http://www.casio.com/products/Digital_Pianos_%26_Keyboards/Workstation_Keyboards/WK-7600/content/Technical_Specs/

The things most important for me are:

1. Sound / Voice quality

I have not seen or used the Casio WK-7600 in person so I cannot comment on the quality of the voices and overall sound.

Has anyone compared this keyboard ( or other Casio Keyboards) to other Yamaha keyboard voices??

I have had a chance to use the PSR-EW 400 in person, and I was very impressed with the Live!, Sweet!, Cool! and Dynamic voices. Many of the standard voices had great a sound to them also (Strings, Guitar, Violin etc). Some voices, like the Harp, were lacking the kick that the other voices had but overall I was definitely impressed by the quality and wide range of voices on this entry level keyboard.

The Casio has more voices then the Yamaha, 820 compared to 758. Not a big difference, and I'm more interested in the quality of the sounds.

I did also compare both the new PSR-EW400 voices (and the PSR-E453) to the older PSR-E443. As mentioned in another thread, they are quite similar, slightly better, but the obvious difference is in the upgraded speakers/amplifiers ---- 12W + 12W in the PSR-EW400 compared to the old 2.5W +2.5W in the PSR E443. The EW400 got really loud, and stayed sounding clean.

But back to the main topic - Compare this to the 7W + 7W speakers in the Casio and the Yamaha comes out on top. But if anyone could comment on the quality of the voices of the Casio that would be great!!

Also, I'm hoping some one here knows, what is the better tone generating technology between Yamaha's AWM Stereo Sampling and Casio's Tri-Elemental AHL? Which produces a better quality sound?


2. Piano style playing

One of my aims is to learn to play the piano so that is why I am looking for a 76 key keyboard. I do not want to purchase a digital piano because I like all the functions, voices and features that a keyboard offers.

With that being said both the Yamaha and Casio have 76 keys. The Yamaha has 4 different settings for the touch response function ( Soft, Medium, Hard, Fixed/Off) whereas the Casio has only the On or Off option.
I am one who fiddles with the touch response quite often so the Yamaha could come in handy.

BUT, a possible deal breaker is that the Casio WK 7600 supposedly offers weighted piano style keys. Im skeptical as to how close they'll feel to real piano keys as I have not had the chance to see one in the store yet. If anyone has had the chance to play on these weighted keys please give some feedback!!!

3. DSP functions

The Yamaha has only 10 DSP functions, where as the Casio has about 100 DSP functions.

I've never used this stuff before but I wouldn't mind starting to learn how to.

I had a go fiddling with the live control knobs and DSP function on the PSR EW400 while I was in the store. I was able to make some instruments sounds pretty cool, but i didn't really know what I was doing.

With that being said, the Yamaha interface and button layout sure looks a lot more user friendly than the scary mess thats found on the Casio. So If I was to learn how to use this DSP stuff I'd probably go with the Yamaha.

4. Overall

At the moment, I am leaning more towards buying the Yamaha. But I might change my mind depending on what kinda answers I get here and whether or not I see a Casio WK-7600 in person.

A question I have is: What do you people think are some deal breaker type features or functions that makes one of these keyboards better suited for me than the other?

--------Anyway, thanks heaps to anyone that can help I know there is fair bit to read.  Hopefully will hear from someone soon.

[SeaGtGruff]

I haven't had a chance to play either keyboard yet.

I do have a Yamaha PSR-E443, PSR-E433, and YPT-400 (which is equivalent to a PSR-E403).

I used to have a Casio CTK-710, and my nephew has a WK-110 (which is the 76-key version of the CTK-810).

I wasn't at all impressed with the sounds of my old CTK-710, but it was a low-end model that didn't have many voices (242), and it wouldn't let me layer two voices together or split the keyboard between two voices-- it did have 10 dual voices and 5 split voices, but they were preset combinations and you couldn't choose your own combinations or move the split point at all. It also had no voice-editing features and no effects. To be truthful, there were a handful of voices on the CTK-710 that I thought sounded more than half decent, but most of them didn't sound very convincing at all. I did think the acoustic piano and electric piano voices were some of the better ones.

Although I haven't had a chance to play my nephew's WK-110 very much, I did fiddle around with it for an hour one day. It had better features than my CTK-710 did, including box-shaped keys, but didn't have as many features as the WK-7600. I thought the WK-110 sounded very similar to the CTK-710, or "not so good," and I imagine the WK-7600 probably sounds similar as well.

Casio has made huge improvements within the last few years-- the newer high-end Privia and synth models sound fabulous in the videos I've seen, and appear to have excellent sound-editing features-- but I don't think the WK-7600 uses their newer sound-generating technologies.

As for the keys, I wasn't impressed with the box-shaped keys on the WK-110, and I think the WK-7600's box-shaped keys are pretty much the same. Yes, they're definitely more piano-like than the organ- or synth-style keys of the CTK-710, PSR-E443, etc. However, they're the same cheap plastic as the synth-style keys, and I didn't really care for the key action.

Another consideration-- which you didn't mention-- are the auto-accompaniments. I don't use styles much myself, so this isn't a big consideration for me, but the impression I've gotten is that Yamaha's styles are generally "second to none"-- and perhaps more importantly, Yamaha has a large aftermarket of styles, as well as user-made styles and user-written software for working with styles. So if you use auto-accompaniments, Yamaha is probably the winner there.

To be honest, I've been very interested in the WK-7600 for a few years now, because it looks like it has more to offer than the PSR-E400s as far as sound-editing, drawbar organ sounds, DSP effects, and registrations. But I haven't actually tinkered with one in a store.

I don't think you should make up your mind without actually playing the WK-7600 first. It sounds like you've already talked yourself more than halfway into the PSR-EW400, but until you've actually played the WK-7600 there will probably always be a nagging suspicion in the back of your mind that maybe you'd have been happier with a WK-7600 instead. Even if the stores in your area don't have a WK-7600 on display, see if they have any of the other WK- models you can play, as the overall quality of the sounds and feel of the keys should be about the same as on the WK-7600.

[SmokeyD]

Thanks for the response!!

The Casio really does offer quite a lot of features, even has 64 polyphony (yamaha has 48).

Also the 9 sliders that come with the Casio look like they'll be of some use for editing or adjusting sounds.

Yeah I think I'm gonna have to go for a drive today and have a look for the Casio or a similar model to try out for myself.

I know most of you guys are probably interested in the voice editing features and DSP stuff etc,  so ill try my best to play around with those features and see what I get.

I'll try to compare the sound quality of various voices and the styles side by side with the Yamaha, should be interesting.

I'll post my findings or whatever on this thread. Talk soon!!

- On another note, I should say that just last month started to play the keyboard again, haven't been familiar with the technology in keyboards since i was just a kid.

The last keyboard I bought, which i still own and started practicing on again, is a 16 year old Casio CTK 551.

So basically whatever I end up buying is gonna sound superior to that.

[SciNote]

Okay, I have not played around much with the CTK-7600, but I have checked out other Casio models, including the similar CTK-7500.  There is no doubt that the Casio's have a boatload of features for the money.  In this range, they have dozens of DSP features, as well as the array of sliders.  And on these keyboards, those sliders can actually be set to act like Hammond-style drawbars.  Additionally, a Leslie speaker simulation, with speed-up and slow-down effects, is also included.  They also include a 16 track sequencer, compared to the Yamaha's 6 tracks.  And also, these higher-end Casios have 96 registration presets (16 sets of 6 presets), compared to the 32 found on the Yamahas.

However, when I bought my PSR-E433 a little over 2.5 years ago, I compared it to the Casio (I believe it was the CTK-7500), and I tried to do an apples-to-apples comparison by selecting similar sounds (piano, strings, brass, etc.) without turning on any effects on either keyboard (such as reverb or chorus), and in my humble opinion, the Yamaha simply sounded better.  Now, perhaps, it could be the case that the Casio could be made to sound better using its effects, but to me, the Yamaha just has fuller, more vibrant sounds.

As I said, I believe that I was looking at the Casio CTK-7500.  It is my understanding that the CTK-7600 is very similar, and that the CTK-7200 is simply a 61-key version of the CTK-7600 (so that if you can't find the 7600 in a store, but can find the 7200, that you may want to just check out its sound to get an idea of what the 7600 would sound like).  However, you may want to verify this information.

I will also say that, also in my humble opinion, the Yamaha keyboards have a key feel that not only blows away the Casio's (in this price range), but that is comparable to keyboards three times their prices.  But, that is my preference, as I prefer the organ/synth style keys and light touch in an electronic keyboard, instead of the box-style keys.  With the Casio box-style keys, when I have checked out their more recent keyboards, it seems that they have built in some resistance to the key feel to give it a sort of semi-weighted feel, but these are not weighted, hammer-action style keys.

But, as has already been said, the important thing is to actually see, hear, and play the keyboards in person, because your preferences may be different than mine.  I am curious to see what you find!

[pjd]

Hi --

I compared the PSR-E443 against similarly-priced Casio keyboards. Casio has definitely improved its voices. However, to me, style quality was the deal breaker. I just couldn't get past the naff quality of the styles. I bought and play the E443 even though MOX and S950 are my main instruments.

That said, here's a link to a Keyboard Magazine review of the WK-7500. I like Ken Hughes' reviews.

http://www.keyboardmag.com/arranger/1190/casio-wk-7500/28180

I eventually settled on a different solution for a highly portable, battery powered rehearsal keyboard (Korg Triton Taktile plus a JBL Charge 2 speaker system). That solution doesn't require styles, however.

Hopefully, you'll have a chance to play both the Yamahas and Casios in person!

All the best -- pj

[SeaGtGruff]

If you're interested in the drawbar organ features, one important difference between the WK-7500 and the WK-7600 is that the "drawbar" sliders on the WK-7600 each have nine possible settings (0 through 8 ), whereas on the WK-7500 they have only four possible settings (0 through 3).

Another significant difference between the Casio WK-7600 and the Yamaha PSR-EW400 is that the Casio doesn't just have three times as many registrations for saving user setups (96 versus 32), it also lets you save 100 user tones, 50 user drawbar organ tones, 100 user DSPs, 100 user rhythms (or auto accompaniments), and 100 user presets (chord progressions), all of which are separate from the 96 user registrations.

And even though I generally consider built-in song sequencers to be inferior to using a full-blown DAW, the WK-7600's song sequencer does have single-event editing, whereas the PSR-EW400's song sequencer makes you re-record an entire track if you make one little mistake that you want to correct.

So the WK-7600 is definitely a very attractive instrument in terms of its amount of "bang for buck." I wasn't very impressed with the sounds on my nephew's Casio, but his doesn't have any of the tone-editing features, and I've heard that Casio's tones sound better if you're using an external amp and speakers rather than the built-in amp and speakers. I did rather like some of the acoustic piano and electric piano tones on my old CTK-710, but I never tried playing it through external speakers.

[SmokeyD]

Thanks for all info and helps guys

I've been pretty busy so I still haven't had the chance to get to the store and compare the sounds myself, but ill make sure to post up when I do.

In the meantime heres something I found, a good break down with lots info comparing the WK7500 to the WK7600.

http://musicstudio.bigredroo.com.au/Recording_Gear_Casio_WK-7600_WK-7500_Comparison.html

Somewhere in the comments at the bottom of the page he says the sound quality and tones are the same on the WK7500 and the WK7600.

Which is a good thing incase they don't have a WK7600 in the store I can confidently compare the sounds of the Yamaha PSR-EW400 to other Casio models the like CTK7000 and WK7500 and CTK7200.

So I called a bunch of different shops and finally one place says the have a WK7600 on display and and PSR-EW400 to compare it wth. Problem is the shop is good one and a half hour drive away, so I'll have to make some time to get down there.

The guy I spoke to who had both keyboards in his shop said he has played around with both of them.
He said the Casio obviously has more features for its price but said that most of the acoustic instruments sound more authentic on the Yamaha, and that the styles were also slightly better on the Yamaha. He did say that the Piano sounds were great on both keyboards, different, but both great.

I can't wait to compare these things for myself. Turns out I can save $60 if I go with the Casio and it'll come with a load of functions that I can fiddle with. But if its gonna mean a reduced sound quality then Im not sure ill go with it.

Will keep posted. Thanks!

[arvacon]

I know this is an old topic, but I was wondering, finally what did you choose and why?

[AnupamEnosh]

Most probably he went with the EW-400, I believe. He came here just to compare the stuff, but his last comment explains it all.

[SmokeyD]

Hey guys

Sorry for not updating for so long, and thanks to everyone who helped on this forum.
For the record  I ended up going with the Yamaha. The reasons are below.

Note: These keyboards were compared using the speakers in the units. So just keep that in mind when reading.

Yamaha EW400 has 12 w speakers that simply outdo the WK7600's 7w speakers. And likely contribute to a more full / louder /vibrant sounds in the Voices and Styles. I never had the chance to plug the Casio into bigger better speakers as I did not purchase it.

Anyway -

Sound Quality

Styles and Patterns were the biggest difference between the two, and was the most impressive thing on the Yamaha when compared to the Wk7600. The Yamaha sounded much more full and realistic, and and the variations when using the ACMP function works very well. They truly are very impressive for a beginner level keyboard.

The Casio was actually pretty good too in my opinion and was not a let down, but there were fewer great sounding styles, whereas on the Yamaha I'd say at least 90% of the Styles and Patterns sound great.

If you like using Drum kits the Yamaha is the better option for sure (again probably the speakers)

In terms of Voices or Tones.
Both keyboards performed well, and I remember that the Casio was more impressive than I had anticipated, but the Yamaha edged the Casio.

Both keyboards had good sounding grand piano, it would be a matter of preference - however the Yamaha performed slightly better than the Casio in the very low and very high octaves, although to be honest, neither of these keyboards were too impressive on the lowest and highest notes. (This is improved slightly by plugging into your own speakers)

Some great electric piano sounds on the Casio and wide choice in terms of variations of the same instrument. However the Yamaha's Live!, Sweet!, Cool! Etc Voices are better quality than what the Casio had to offer, And most of the acoustic intruments sound a bit more lively on the Yamaha. When it comes to synthetic Dj noises and stuff like that, they are both great and I wouldn't say there's a clear winner, the Casio might have more choice here if I recall correctly, although there are plenty on both.


DSP Functions

It's been about a year and I still don't use these functions much at all, almost never. So I can't say what would be better here. From what we've listed it seems the Casio  has a lot more functions and might be worth it if this is what you are after. I had fiddled with them and Both keyboards seem kinda entry level functionality but the Casio would probably be better because of the many options. The drawbar organs on the Casio are pretty cool too if you like those, and they worked just fine.

If your into this DSP function stuff I'm not sure if these keyboards are what you want, you would need to try them yourself, but the Casio might have been better here.

Other things

These keyboards are roughly the same price, so that makes this good comparison.

The Casio keys are in the box style however both keyboards have normal plastic keys that are not weighted.

The Casio has higher polyphony - 64 compared to 48 on the Yamaha. But I've so far not experienced any restrictions when I'm playing and using dual noises and split keyboard as of yet. But it is something to consider as higher end keyboards generally have higher polyphony.

As mentioned before by SeaGtGruff, there are much more user registrations and you can save many more user tones on the Casio. This is definitely useful for people who like having many presets. I honestly have never used the function at all, but I can see how useful they can be for a quick setup. So consider this if you use them.

Another drawback of the Yamaha (which I was unaware of until a while later) is that when using a sustain pedal, if you split the keyboard you will only be able to sustain the right half of the split. This does get annoying sometimes and I wish there was a way around it. On the Casio I believe I read that you can select which side to sustain, or even to sustain both sides. But I never had the chance to try that in person in the shop.

Another thing is that I plugged my Yamaha into some great speakers here at home at this further improves the Voices and Styles and they of are of great quality. Very impressive. Someone should try this on the Casio and comment back.

Something I still haven't done is connected my Yamaha to an IPad or computer but I will give that a shot if I'm free sometime soon.

Overall I'd say the Casio has more bang for buck and is pretty loaded with features, but the Yamaha has better quality features (Voices, Styles etc)

I don't think you would be upset with either one of these and they really are both pretty good.

I'll post more as I remember more things but for now that should do.

Thanks!

[arvacon]

Thanks for your reply.
What do you think about the box style keys of Casio?
Do they feel better or not compared to Yamaha's ones?

[AnupamEnosh]

CTK Series has a cheap keybed, although it tries to imitate the look and feel of a real Piano, it does not have that spring-back feel in keys. But surprisingly I found CTK 245 (organ keys), with much better key feel than E-453 ! However the CDP or Privia keyboards from Casio have a better keybed feel.

[SeaGtGruff]

I agree that the keys on the Casio CTK/WK models are not piano-like in feel and responsiveness. I expect that this is also true of the Yamaha DGX-230/YPG-235, or any other keyboard that has semi-weighted box-shaped keys. I have the M-Audio Axiom 61-II, and it has such keys. It's certainly possible to adapt to these types of keys, just as it's possible to adapt to organ/synth-style keys. But if you want something with more of a true piano-like key action, avoid semi-weighted and get a fully-weighted keyboard with graded hammer scale action.

[Bedj]

 Hi everybody and happy musical (and healty) new year !

I have had Casio keyboards since i was a kid. At least ten of them, among them the Ctk 710.
The one that was special and that i kept until today is the Ctk 900 (bought in 2005 if i remember well). It is a model that includes what Casio called ZPI technology.
  It has 700 sounds including a decent piano that you can tweek to your liking. It also has a "synth fonction". You Can make your own sounds.
  I still use some of them today in my hardware midi setup. A few other models had this ZPI source sound but it didn't last long. Casio Strangely enough decided to give it up and replaced it by sounds of inferior quality: Some other/worse Ctk's an then the new WK series.
From the few demos i have heard the casio arrangers today are expensive when you see the low quality of instruments you get versus what Yamaha provides.
These are the raw internal demo songs, nothing special but believe me, with the effects section you can make powerfull sounds ou of the presets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3JbJk8HNA
The ctk 900 can be found for 50 euros on ebay or smaller local add websites and i think you can make serious (especially synth) music with it.
As i said when tweeked, the piano is good enough, also some good el pianos, organs, electric guitars etc... the only week point but that goes also for the entry level Psr-e, is the drum/snares, (i remember using a layer of rimshot and hihat instead of snares which are mediocre, at least if you need a natural acoustic one). The strings also for today's stantard are not good enough.

The Ctk 691 also has the same ZPI sound source (it was an "inferior"/cheaper model vs the Ctk 900, i think it had less sounds and the internel speakers are smaller)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yQSooMTgSY

[SciNote]

Yep, I have one of those -- I believe it is the Casio CTK-691 (I'm not at home right now), and got it back in 2003 and was amazed at all of the features for the price (I think the music store matched an internet price and I paid a ridiculously low price of about $130 for it).  This thing has about 600 voices, numerous DSP effects (including phaser and Leslie speaker simulator), synth mode to customize sounds, user presets, 32 registrations (8 banks of 4 presets, like PSR-E433 and up), dual voice on the main AND split sides of the keyboard, and the ability to tune each voice to a different key (so, if you want the main and dual voices, say, a fifth apart, you can set that), and even an organ drawbar mode with its own set of presets.  The sound was quite good, and the keyboard superior to many of their later models.

The main limitations are the following...

1. The style/rhythm is stored with a registration, and there is no way to override this or "freeze" the style when going from one registration to another, so that if you want to change registrations in the middle of a song for a different set of sounds, then the style and tempo also changes (unless the registrations have the exact same style and tempo settings).  This factor alone "disqualifies" it from being a main keyboard for me, but it is a great accompaniment/auxiliary keyboard.

2. It does have a six-track sequencer, similar to the PSR-E series, but it can only record the main voice for each track, not the dual voice, so that if you made a complex sound using the main and dual voices, you cannot record that sound directly to a sequencer track.

3. There is no data wheel, so all settings have to be entered numerically or by plus and minus buttons.

4. There is no pitch bend control