s970 & s770 erratic behaviour / faulty [A] to [J] buttons - is yours affected?

[Joe H]

Bill H,

V1.03 and v1.04 exhibit the button problem.  It appears at this point, that it might be a installer program glitch (in my opinion), but I don't know if that is even possible.  I'm not a programmer, so the question is why would you need to do a System Reset after installing a firmware update?          

It may NOT be a hardware problem since the reset appears to correct the problem... (short term anyway).  We need more reports.

From where I stand, it looks like Yamaha has not acknowledged there IS a problem... for the moment.  I guess the burden is on us to convince the right folks at Yamaha that there IS a problem.

Joe H

[androidgalaxyman]

Bill H,

V1.03 and v1.04 exhibit the button problem.  It appears at this point, that it might be a installer program glitch (in my opinion), but I don't know if that is even possible.  I'm not a programmer, so the question is why would you need to do a System Reset after installing a firmware update?          

It may NOT be a hardware problem since the reset appears to correct the problem... (short term anyway).  We need more reports.

From where I stand, it looks like Yamaha has not acknowledged there IS a problem... for the moment.  I guess the burden is on us to convince the right folks at Yamaha that there IS a problem.

Joe H

Dear Joe

Sure . i will try it out and report to you. May be time delay happens when respond back to you. my firmware is v.1.03. The one more thing i understand, if we press elevated part, there will be a problem of exit happens. but if would be the case left hand side button, the depression found on right side. The same as for Right hand side button the depression is on left side. if we press depressed areas, the problem some what less. Though i suspect, it could be a problem in hardware part. but i am also convinced about your answers , there will be a chance on firmware.

Thanks

Regards
androidgalaxyman

[Happy Jack]

  Hi, androidgalaxyman,

  Well done for sticking with it and good luck. 

  Jack

[Happy Jack]

Bill H,

V1.03 and v1.04 exhibit the button problem.  It appears at this point, that it might be a installer program glitch (in my opinion), but I don't know if that is even possible.  I'm not a programmer, so the question is why would you need to do a System Reset after installing a firmware update?          

It may NOT be a hardware problem since the reset appears to correct the problem... (short term anyway).  We need more reports.

From where I stand, it looks like Yamaha has not acknowledged there IS a problem... for the moment.  I guess the burden is on us to convince the right folks at Yamaha that there IS a problem.

Joe H

   Greetings, Joe H and all, 

      I'm waiting for my repaired keyboard to be returned; optimistic that it is on the way.   Note that I had already installed the Firmware 1:04 upgrade, so that didn't fix the problem.

EDIT:  Also tried several, full System Resets to no avail. (END OF EDIT)

      As yet, haven't had any 'hard' acknowledgement of this issue, either from my dealer or from Yamaha.  Spoken words down a phone line, no problem, but asking for a written response is another matter. Will keep trying. 

     * My dealer's website was unable to recognize my details when I typed in details of my faulty keyboard.

      *My local Yamaha website (Milton Keynes, UK), didn't recognize the PSR-S770, hence had to use phone.
 
       *My recent email to my dealer (with digital signature) has been responded to, but in a format I couldn't read: "winmail.dat" 784bytes.    Have asked my dealer to resend their email in a format I can read. :-)

   From my recent chat with the Yamaha tech' guy, it was clear that he knew of this issue of the problem buttons.  However, you'll have to take my word for that. (hearsay evidence)?
     
     Very much looking forward to the return of my fixed keyboard.

   Happy regards to all Buttoneers!
   (please see my posted image)

   

     

[attachment deleted by admin]

[androidgalaxyman]

Dear All,

is that have any concrete list of updates or  fix list between v.1.0.3. and V.1.0.4 from yamaha side. like something release notes we can see in the internet?

Thanks

Regards
androidgalaxyman

[Joe H]

androidgalaxyman,

Did you try a System Reset?  This is important to know.

Here's the info you are looking for.   

http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16535&product_id=2059270&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=65128

Joe H

[textbook]

I'll give my own 970 a complete reset today Joe,  a bit sceptical,  but will give it a try just in case it does help.   nothing to lose. 

[Happy Jack]

I'll give my own 970 a complete reset today Joe,  a bit sceptical,  but will give it a try just in case it does help.   nothing to lose. 

   Good day, Cameron and all,

    Doing System resets didn't work for me - I did several to no avail.  But I sincerely hope you're lucky.

    Just hoping my 'repaired' keyboard will be totally good when it comes.

    I reject that I am supposed to grin and bear it, pretend it's just a minor blip, ignore it.

     No, I reject that.  I paid for a brand new keyboard,  not to be saddled with a faulty one.

    Imagine trying to sell it:   For sale,  mint condition, indoor use only, kept under a bell jar in a smoke-free, pet-free home.       What?, oh, the sticky A-J buttons?  Nah, that's normal for this model, just ask around. What? You don't want it?  Suit yourself, that'll be two quid for the tea and biscuits then.

     Just blowing off steam, matey,  better let out then holding it in, eh? :-)

   happy regards
   Jack

[textbook]

LOL...
I fully agree with you Jack,  it will likely cause financial loss when it comes to sell it, and possible come back from any potential buyer, there's no doubt about that.   I personally think they are just crapply designed switch panels, and no amount of resetting will make it better.
However,  I haven't tried a full hard factory reset yet, so nothing to lose,   at least I can then say I tried it...lol

TBH I'm looking forwards to yours coming back 100% fixed, and if it works okay,  I may be tempted to send this one back too,  though I doubt they will swap it again,  but at least if I know they are actually doing some genuine sort of fix on them instead of just a quick check and a reset and then shipping it back saying they couldn't find anything wrong,  I'll likely get mine updated too in due course as it's done it twice today. :-(   and I have a few other boards plus my Casio 88 piano I recently bought which I can use while it's away.   I just want to know for sure Yamaha UK will actually do something before I send it in for repair.  I may ring my dealer though just to give them the bad news, so they are aware in case I do send it for repair later.

So I look forward to hearing what they did/have done with your's Jack and sincerely hope it gets truly fixed, as I recall the OP saying he had already returned 2,  and they still hadn't given him one that worked 100% properly.   

Take care.

Best wishes....Cameron

[Joe H]

Jack,

Yes... please give us a full report on what they didi to "fix" your keyboard buttons. This is important for the rest of us to know.

Joe H

[Joe H]

Cameron,

I'm amazed at the improvement since I did the reset, but the problem is not 100% resolved.  Yamaha needs to identify the true cause.  Either buttons, switches, faulty daughter board, or firmware code... which one is it?   

Joe H

[Happy Jack]

   Cameron, Joe H, and all StickyButtoniers,

   Cheers for supportive comments, guys.   

   My KB not done yet but will be done anon.  Young gent (***)  from shop phoned Yamaha to check, citing  the backlog, due to post-Christmas warranty work.

  That's fine,  everybody's cool.     But also took the opportunity to remind (***) of my written request for full details of any work done.  That is, hopefully something other than resetting it, smacking it with a kipper and sending it back. 

   As ever, my thanks to this best of best keyboard forums: psrtutorial.   

  happy regards
  Jack

   

   

 

[textbook]

Cameron,

I'm amazed at the improvement since I did the reset, but the problem is not 100% resolved.  Yamaha needs to identify the true cause.  Either buttons, switches, faulty daughter board, or firmware code... which one is it?   

Joe H

Hi Joe,  well I tried a full factory cold reset this afternoon, and I'd love to be able to say it made a difference,  but on trying it,   within a couple dozen presses it had twice popped back to the main screen.    The buttons on this board like my first seems to work better if pressing the high spot,  which Terry stated earlier.   I'm pretty much convinced it's definitely a hardware issue.   I can press them 2 or 3 dozen times and it seems to work fine,  then just as I'm beginning to think it's much better it will go back to the main screen, and just occasionally it still misses the odd key press.

I shall wait and see how Jack gets on when he gets his board returned, and we'll have a better idea what Yamaha have done/doing, as I see little point sending it off until I know they have a proper fix.     I will however send Yamaha UK a email,  just to keep them in the picture.
I certainly think there may be quite a few boards affected,  but many owners haven't realised it yet,  and probably put it down to user error, plus the fact no-one really wants to send away their new board,  thinking it only does it occasionally so I can tolerate it, and consider it quite a minor annoyance.

EDIT:  Thinking about it Joe,  the double switch bounce which I'm convinced is the problem causing the jump back to main screen because it interprets it as 2 presses can be fixed in the firmware,  by adding a slight delay loop before it checks for the next key press,  similar to the key press delay you set on PC keyboards before the auto key repeat kicks in.
IOW after reading one key press it waits X number of micro seconds before polling for the next key press,  if they introduced this slight delay it might help to resolve that issue, as you would have lifted your finger in time,  but of course if they have no such delay and its continually polling those keys then yes a double contact even though the user has only pressed it once will result in two presses being recorded if the contact is not a clean single contact every time.

I've had this happen a couple of times with my PC mice,  where after a couple of years of heavy daily use the PC occasionally thinks I've clicked the button twice even though I definitely only clicked the mouse button once,  replacing the mouse with a new one has always fixed it,  even though the switches on a mouse are proper miniature micro switches as they take a lot of hammering over time, and that's the reason I've had to replace the last 2 mice for that same reason.   The switches on these Yamaha boards are more akin to the simple push button switches you tend to find on TV remote controls, where a conductive pad simply shorts out a pcb track when pressed, it would simply be impractical (cost wise) to have micro switches on something requiring this many button switches.
I was TV/Video engineer for many years before going into the design of electronic cpu boards mainly for the fruit machine industry though I also worked for Hewlett Packard at Bristol with their R&D design team for some years designing control boards for Laser/Injet printers etc.

So I'm fairly sure Yamaha could resolve the jump back to the main screen issue quite easily in firmware,  just by adding a slight delay after it's detected the first press.  Obviously it won't cure the odd missed key press where it's not detected the key press,  but if they could fix that jumping back to the main screen it would be good.   I'll give them a ring tomorrow and have a chat...see what they have to say.

Cameron

[Joe H]

Cameron,

We are definitely on the same page on this issue.  We are all waiting for that report from Jack (Yamaha Repair).  It will tell us a lot (I hope) what the solution is.  The fact that some boards do not have the problem points to hardware, but you may be right that a firmware update could fix the problem.



Jack,

You are so right.  We are lucky that Joe Waters chose to start this Forum and works hard to maintain it (and pay for it)

Thanks again Joe Waters. 

Joe H

[Amorlatino65]

On the time where I have had to press twice it was because I had not pressed it properly. I had hit the side of the button. At no time has my screen changed though and gone to home page.

I am just reading all these comments but I haven't yet noticed this. I'm gonna try to play tonite see if that happens on mine. I really havent had much time to play since I got it in December2015. I have been reading the manual and watching videos to get better use of this amazing Kb.

[Nick]

Hello everyone.. 
As I, stated in my last posting when I talk to the tech's I'd get back to you all. Well I received the call late last night from CA. Yamaha and, once again they stated  no one is calling in to report it and, that they are not aware of this problem "?" The Yamaha tech's indicated that until this is reported by more people and see this issue being reported from the repair centers they cannot recommend a fix to over sea's.  I told him after  a system reset it improved but still wasn't perfect.  At this point they have no solution to offer. They need more information.  I don't know how many of you have reported this problem to Yamaha all I could recommend  to them was read these postings on the forum. 

  I hope Jack that your KB returns fixed and a written solution you can share with us all. This will give us all a leg to stand on when reporting the problem.   

Everyone be well !

[Joe H]

Nick,

Thank you very much for your update.  I will email the tech support guy I'm communicating with and ask how I can talk to him on the phone.  Your report is as expected. That's why I got my Yamaha dealer / service center on-board.  NAMM has put my efforts with the Manager of the store on hold for a couple of weeks.

So... an email to Tech Support tomorrow requesting he CALL me for a verbal conversation on the issue.   

Joe H

[androidgalaxyman]

androidgalaxyman,

Did you try a System Reset?  This is important to know.

Here's the info you are looking for.   

http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16535&product_id=2059270&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=65128

Joe H

Dear Joe and other buttoners,

I am very surpirsed yesterday. i was did quick test on my keyboard.


Test case : 1 (No rest)

just i orderly or unorderly pressed the depressed part of buttons . i gave gave 30 push on left and right

Result : Passed

Test case : 2 (after reset, not complete only system)

no change in execution.

Result : Passed. No obvious earlier problem

Today i am planning do aggressive test .. to more care about wouldn't be hurt the button.. .My conclusion for the time being merely hardware part rather than firmware. Because when we compare with firmware release notes , there was a only fix sent in to that version . multi pad buttons issue.

People may do mistake on press. as well one more self explanatory issue manufactures did the wrong design of button pads.

This week end will be a "regresson testing of button " . i will bring with my results

Thanks Joe , Happy , Textbook, Bill and community


Regards
androidgalaxyman

in search of truth behind the PSR S770

[EileenL]

Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all.

[Happy Jack]

Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all.

   ... They're probably too terrified to say otherwise! 

     Hi there, Eileen,

     I'm 'here in the UK' and my lovely PSR-S770 is still with the menders!

     The sticky buttons issue became so much of a nuisance to me that I was compelled to return it to the shop under warranty.  I made several attempts to rectify the fault, which continued.   

     My financial circumstances are always 'fluid' at best  , a bit shaky at the moment.  I need to know that my treasured PSR-S770 keyboard is fully working with no 'issues'.    A faulty keyboard, regardless of its mint condition, would be hard - if not impossible - to sell for a reasonable sum.

    Thank-you, Eileen, I think we both have high regard for the Yamaha brand, which is why we are playing our Yamaha keyboards. 

   But to ignore concerns by some few UK Yamaha PSR-S770 / 970 owners would be overly dismissive, don't you think? 

  happy regards,
   Jack 

[textbook]

Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all.

Well Eileen this thread has been running almost 2 months, and I made 2 observational comments about this issue in posts in October,  though the posts were not specific to this issue.  In fact like others I thought it was down to user error.  Quite a few of us ARE in the UK,   and Herefordshire where I live was still in the UK the last time I checked. 

I'm on my second 970, and sadly this one does the same but nowhere as frequent as the first board,  I tend to set up lots of banks of registrations like many others,  with all my favourite voice mixes etc.etc.  So once set I don't need to use the A-E and F-J keys too frequently.  It becomes noticeable when you are using it a lot,  which sometimes we have to.   Often I can press buttons as many as a dozen times or more and it's fine, then it will either not record the press and I need to press it a second time,  or the most annoying issue where it detects 2 presses, when I've only pressed it once, and it returns back to the main screen, so it means you have to press a button again to get back to the voice selection screen as clearly explained in this thread many times.

I'm pleased that your 970 works 100% perfectly Eileen, and TBH I thought this second one did too when I received it,  but while going through the voices a few days later it became apparent it too suffered the same issue albeit to a lesser extent.
I'm 99% certain its caused by a batch of flaky button switch panels, so we will have to see what Yamaha do about it.

It's NOT a catastrophic fault, and many users will likely not bother, thinking it's the way they press the buttons, but there's no doubt it can be annoying if one spends some time trying different voice combinations which of course we do occasionally.
So just because some do not have the problem does not mean it does not exist, because it certainly does.  In fact recently while shopping in Worcester with my wife, I popped into a music dealer there to check out a couple of pianos,  he has both the 770 and 970 models on display now, and on checking the 970 they had,  I found it too exhibited the same issue when pressing those control buttons, and when I pointed it out to the sales guy, he said...do you know I've never noticed that before I thought it was the way I pressed the button, he just shrugged it off as no big deal, though he did comment that he thought the buttons didn't feel good.

Why Yamaha says no-one's reported it is utter rubbish, as I've emailed them twice and spoken to them,  my own dealer also said they would have a word with them about it, as they would have returned my 1st board to Yamaha UK for repair,  plus don't forget the OP who started this thread said Yamaha had changed his twice for the problem, so they obviously know.  Maybe they are not sharing information between themselves,   I know Yamaha UK were not happy the OP started this thread which I suppose is understandable.

Hopefully,  Yamaha will find a solution,  but I can assure you and Yamaha,  there are boards out there that do have this flaky control buttons issue.  I might be old, but I'm not ready for the loony bin yet...lol  I've been pressing keyboard buttons for more years than I care to remember and none have ever given me a problem before, the other 4 boards I have here all work great.   AIS lets hope Yamaha finds a solution/fix.

Best wishes... Cameron

[Joe H]

Thank you Cameron.  You are spot on.   

Joe H

[Joe H]

I sent the Yamaha Tech Support guy an email update on all of this and indicated I would do a follow-up once we hear more on the current "repair" and what the findings were.

There will be no letting up on this one until we get some straight answers from Yamaha.



Joe H

[EileenL]

I do understand that some are having problems and my comments are not meant to take away from this but I can only speak for myself and say that after much button pushing I have not had a problem.
  My middle name is Button pusher as I tweak loads of styles create lots of registrations and Multi pads and so far everything is fine. Hope you all get sorted.

[iulistil2]

Any programming error will be the next address followed by the Firmware Updater V1.05 and other updates to resolve them! Yamaha always took care of her the tools to have a more stable functionabilitate!

[androidgalaxyman]

Dear yamaha players,

Sorry for the delay. i have done quite aggressive test, the problems due to the poor button design. but one of my colleague reported to me, the problem was happening when he selects audio styles. for me its happening occasionally when selecting voices. Do u have any additional test cases. ?  present condition the problem is not happening or few time. so i cant conclude.

Thanks

Regards
androidgalaxyman

[Joe H]

I think we are all waiting for Happy Jack to get his keyboard back from repair and hear his report on what was done to fix the problem.  In the mean time, all I can say is that my button problem is now minimal since I did the System Reset.

I sent all this info to a Yamaha Tech Support guy and... no response.

Joe H

[Happy Jack]

I think we are all waiting for Happy Jack to get his keyboard back from repair and hear his report on what was done to fix the problem.  In the mean time, all I can say is that my button problem is now minimal since I did the System Reset.

I sent all this info to a Yamaha Tech Support guy and... no response.

Joe H

  Hi Joe, Cameron and all,

  Update:  My individual case is closed after dealer made a goodwill offer of my returning keyboard for refund. 

  Ergo: as the keyboard is no longer mine, I'm not party to any report regards the fix,  as the keyboard was presumably sent back to shop after repair.

   Still got my trusty QY100 and QY70 plus my Yammy Pocketrack recorder, plus other samplers and stuff.  Think I'll pause awhile,  but certainly would consider getting the same model once the button thing is sorted.

    Thanks all, and cheers for the support of this amazing forum. 

    happy regards
    Jack

[textbook]

no problem... Jack you did the right thing having the refund,   Hopefully Yamaha will come up with something in due course,  but I suspect it's not going to happen for a long time if indeed they come up with some sort of fix.

My own thoughts are that the PCB board which has the contact tracks etched into it might be out of line with the buttons, IOW the bottom of the button which is conductive is not lined up dead centre with the contacts below, it will obviously cause problems,  especially so if the boards have too much clearance in the mounting holes allowing movement when they are assembled, which would explain why some are okay but not others.
A possible solution and the easiest to implement, like I suggested previously is to add a few milliseconds delay when it detects a button press so it doesn't check for another until a few milliseconds later, that may help a lot with this double contact issue were having.  Hopefully Yamaha will get it sorted.

In any event Jack, I hope we still see you often on here

You take care.... best wishes... Cameron

[Joe H]

et al,

This is a bit of discouraging news and not like Yamaha to ignore a problem like this.  I'm still in the game though. I'm known for my tenacity.  I will continue to work with my Yamaha dealer, and try to reach management through the back door.  I think my email to him was hijacked by the support tech person I was commincation with, but can't say for sure.

"It ain't over 'til it's over". 

Joe H