My Keyboard Toys

[Jeff Hollande]

My present keyboards :

Yamaha SX900
Medeli AKX10

The Genos is assembled by Medeli in China, people say.
The Medeli AKX10 is a brand new Medeli 61 keys keyboard.
I received it yesterday.

Regards, JH

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[Toril S]

Very nice Jeff. Have fun😀 Please tell us what you think of the Medeli when you have made yourself familiar with it😀

[Jeff Hollande]

Thank you very much, Toril, for your kind words.
In a couple of weeks I will be able to tell you more, I guess.

I like the design of this keyboard.
It has a touch screen and a low selling price.

Best regards, Jeff





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[Joe H]

My present keyboards :

Yamaha SX900
Medeli AKX10

The Genos is assembled by Medeli in China, people say.
The Medeli AKX10 is a brand new Medeli 61 keys keyboard.
I received it yesterday.

Regards, JH

Does it play Yamaha styles? If it does I would think that's a violation of copyright.  Yamaha's SFF GE CASM structure is proprietary.

The design of the AKX10 may also be an infringement of Yamaha patents.

Joe H

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Joe  :

The Medeli AKX10 does not play Yamaha styles.

The styles need to be converted.
Many of the built in styles sound like the older  " SFF1 Yamaha styles ". A nice sound though.
Maybe the same software supplier for both manufacturers ?

Apparently Medeli created a free conversion program to do the conversion job. I have not downloaded it yet. Will do it soon.

Since Medeli seems to assemble arranger keyboards for Yamaha ( like the Genos e. g  ? ) in China it might be possible both companies have made some agreements.
I have no idea.
Does Medeli belong to the Yamaha family ?
Who knows.
Their European Headquarters  ( Allience is the name ) are located in The Netherlands.

Here in The Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg many Yamaha dealers are selling the AKX10 ( net selling price  : Euro 689, - - ) and other Medeli instruments.

I could not believe such an arranger keyboard is sold to the consumer for approx. 699,-- US Dollar but it is true.

What about the Medeli distribution in the USA ?
Plse advise. Many thanks.

Take care, JH

[Amwilburn]

Since Medeli seems to assemble arranger keyboards for Yamaha ( like the Genos e. g  ? ) in China it might be possible both companies have made some agreements.
I have no idea.
Does Medeli belong to the Yamaha family ?

Not sure where this idea came from, but Yamaha, Roland, Korg (I think Kawaii also) don't do OEM. Meledi doesn't make keyboards for any of those brands. They *have* made products for retailers though (including for us). And interestingly, they made a drum kit for us that I later saw an identical one from Alesis, and my original thought was the same as yours: they must be making it for them. I just googled, the Alesis DM10 actually *did* use Medeli pads and parts.


If anything, Yamaha could sue them for infrigement of design;Trade dress protection:
Your product can be similar enough to let the consumer know that it fills the same niche as the other company's product, but it can't be so similar that the consumer thinks your product came from the other company.

The fact that you thought they also manufactured for Yamaha brings credence to a potential lawsuit.
Yamaha has their own factories in Japan, Indonesia, China, and their own QA staff *on site*. OEM is when a manufacturer uses another to produce products under their own banner; Yamaha doesn't do this

It's possible they could in the future though, so never say never; but that's unlikely because they need to protect their i.p.

[Toril S]

What concerns me is what happens if the Medeli keyboards have to be serviced. Yamaha have a very good service, and parts can be obtained for the keyboards many years after they are manufactured. So it will be interesting to know what Medeli owners will experience in that regard! Yamaha also have packs, styles, software updates and so on, you can expand your keyboard, and you will nvere lack styles! This is not true for the Medeli, at least not yet. And think of this fantastic forum, and the PSR TUTORIAL site. Time will tell how popular the Medeli will become. They cost less, but the question is: Why do they cost less??? There is reasons for them costing less!

[Amwilburn]

Toril, I can answer that as well: We've sold Medeli keyboards & digital pianos here before, and there was a local repair shop who handled everyone's warranty service (all brands). When they shut down a decade ago? Nobody else picked up Medeli's warranty service. Which means there's nobody locally who can repair a Medeli; it would probably need to be shipped back to Hong Kong for service (where Medeli is from)

Having said that? I'd love to check out the AKX10 next time I'm back in HK, if only to confirm my suspicion that they essentially copied a PSR3000 / Tyros 1 chipset in a touch screen package. How can they brazenly copy a Yamaha chipset? Since design patents only last 20 years, and even though the T1 launched in 2002, my guess is that the patent for the chipset was placed in 2000 or so, which meant you could literally copy it and re-release it yourself over 20 years later.

[Jeff Hollande]

I am not afraid of my AKX10's service.

Most Medeli dealers in my region do sell all other brands like
Korg and Yamaha.
All Service Centres in my country are repairing all arrangers.

But Toril made another good point : Medeli's  lack of software like ( new ) styles and voices might be a serious problem.
I wonder how they will solve that issue.
Time will tell.
It looks like Yamaha will stop the production of software.
New Yamaha software will be made by a third party if this information is true. Needs to be checked.

Bye for now, JH

[Amwilburn]

It looks like Yamaha will stop the production of software.

Not to worry there; if they already have a sty converter for the AKX10, as long as it doesn't use voices beyond the AKX10's capabilities (I *suspect* it's roughly a T1 chip, which means most mega voice and even most of the non-revo kits will work) then you can keep converting those styles to work, don't worry.

Not trying to scare you! It still looks neat, even if it's not a Yamaha

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Amwilburn :

Why do you think the AKX10 has a Tyros1 Chip ?

Do you believe this keyboard has more Yamaha parts and/or software under the hood ?

Plse advise.

Many thanks, JH

[Amwilburn]

Because of the sounds of the YouTube demos I saw. Whether or not they do, they don't manufacture for Yamaha; since the design patents should've run out in 2020, technically anybody could copy it (which is why you saw Behringer release a bunch of Classic synths that are exact copies of other brands' synths a couple of years ago: those patents all expired, and Behringer just re-made them)


See this article:
https://www.factmag.com/2017/04/08/behringer-minimoog-synth-clones/


I've never seen an AKX10 in person (only place I would be able to check one out is in HK, where Medeli headquarters is, and we frequently go back to). But you could confirm my suspicions: Look for sounds replicated, like the "Sweet! Soprano Sax", the megavoice guitars (acoustic and electric only, the T1 didn't have Classical) and no Super Articulation. Again, this is merely my speculation based on what I saw in the demo videos. I was simply curious.

But as you can see from the above article, it's not that uncommon to reverse engineer other brands famous keyboards once the patents expire.

Actually, I could em you the voice directory of the PSR3000 (which would enable your PSRSX900 to play all the PSR3000 sounds... no it doesn't add new sounds, the sx900 happens to contain all the voices of the 3000 anyway, but this way you could see specifically which sounds are from the 3000/Tyros 1).
In which you could do an A/B comparison of the AKX vs the PSR3000 sounds.

If my guess is wrong, there will be no identical sounding/ behaving soudns.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hello,

Found following information on the Internet.

Medeli is a leading Hong Kong manufacturer and exporter of electronic and MIDI keyboards.
There are over 500 well-trained workers in their China plant and over 25 professional software, electronic, and mechanical engineers.
They have won international recognition with ISO 9002 certification.
Most of their products have passed the quality tests of EMC, EN50088 and EN-71, etc.

Business type : Exporter.
Personnel : 100 to 149 people.
Year Established :1984.

I have listened to all AKX10 styles.
IMHO there is no reason to believe this company has copied any Yamaha styles.
I wonder if there are Yamaha parts under this keyboard's hood.

It might be possible Medeli is assembling the Genos in China but this information has never been confirmed yet and maybe we will never know. 😜
I would not be surprised if Medeli might be Yamaha's partner in China. Who knows. 🙃

Best regards, JH



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[vadesriux]

Great setup Jeff! Congratulations. Simple and clean.

[Misu]

Hi Jeff,

According with this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epuyr-Shf14
for me, your AKX 10 seems to be at least SX 600 when we speak about sounds, where Yamaha stay strong.
Please share with us other issue: functions; packs installation(or similar); style creator; voice creator; style conversion programs included or not; user memory.
Thanks & Congratulations!

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Misu :

Thank you so much for your interest.

I have watched the video link but I feel sorry to inform you I do not understand one single word of the language spoken by this gentleman.

I am absolutely not familiar with the SX600.
Therefor I cannot compare this keyboard with my great AKX10.
Just like you I am an SX900 owner. A keyboard I love very much.

Here we are a Yamaha Forum.
In order to answer all your questions, I would suggest to download the English version of the AKX10 manual.
Simply to be found on the internet.

Best wishes, JH

[Joe H]

I down loaded the manual.  Looking at the specs there appears to NO expansion memory and there is a limit to the number of "User Voices", Registrations (Performances) and songs.  On the plus side, it appears you can edit arpeggios to create variations of the 100 preset arps like we can create variations of the Preset Voices by editing the Voice Set file to create User Voices. I could not determine the style format used or how one can get new styles or create your own custom styles.

It has it's limitations.

Joe H

[Jeff Hollande]

Good morning Joe H :

Thank you so much for downloading the manual and your time for giving your first very useful impressions.
Much appreciated. 

Indeed, this keyboard has it's limitations ( like each other arranger keyboard, I guess ).
I own this keyboard now for approx. 10 days, I guess.

I am so surprised what this keyboard offers to its endusers for that small amount of money. ( only Euro 689,-- all-in !!! ). Hard to believe but true.
A very nice sound and a lot of useful features though but ... it is not an SX900, I agree. 

I have sent a couple of e-mail questions to their main office in Hong Kong.
Their kind answers followed within 8 hours.

Have a nice weekend, JH

[Misu]

Hi,

Few more discoveries from Help of <<YEM>>
User voices has 256Mb dedicated memory and is works similar with YEM (Grand Suite)
Just this one have
-Mono, Mono Portamento, Mono legato
-40 Elements for each sound, more than KORG (I think 24).
-Kind of PPF or CPF but max 5 packs
-Style Edit - and open Yamaha styles (or midi file)16 tracks where you can edit, save settings and apply these settings to all elements that you want.
-Arpeggios Edit
-Voices edit works with keyboard sound board(only Genos is allowed to do this).
Adding here Bluetooth Audio & Midi, interface color change, 1100 voices, 3 Assignable Switches, ACC, 3 Vocal Harmony, 3 Vocoder, big screen and more.
I think must be compared at least with SX 700.
At this money, with quality of Yamaha voices, I will take one on Christmas tree, just to have it.
Regards!

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Musi  :

A very good idea to give yourself a nice X-mas present.😃

It is a nice toy and ... I will keep it.
Absolutely no reason to sell it.🙃

JH

[Misu]

Maybe I don't know how,
I saw this on YT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unVLsslokPU
Seems that this toy works with his <YEM> like Genos for sound edit.
Do you know if can do this my SX-900?
If yes, please how.
If no, this is not a toy it is professional keyboard and, no comments for SX-900.
Thanks and Best regards!

[Al Ram]

Jeff

Nice setup with 2 keyboards . . .the Medeli seems to be a good addition for you.

I like your keyboard stand . . . . can you share the brand/model ?

Thanks and have a great day.

[Jeff Hollande]

It is an INNOX (  brand name of the stand  ).

Best regards, JH

[mikf]

Jeff
Something to consider. I had a similar stand to yours when I used two keyboards, and I found that when set up like you show, I could not easily access and see the controls on the top board, - unless I used a very high stool which then made it awkward to see and play the lower keyboard. The best set up was to have the top keyboard angled at about 45 degrees. That way the controls are easy to reach and see on both keyboards.  If you scroll down my article on the CP33 [below] there is a picture showing the set up. You need something at the end of the arm or some high friction pads on the arm to prevent the top one moving, but some stands have that already.
Mike
https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/13-cp33.html

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Mike :

Thank you for your very interesting feedback.
I have absolutely no problem to work with both keyboards in combination with this Innox stand.
I love my stand and it works fine and easy.
I do not need a special chair.

Disadvantage of this INNOX ( brand name ) stand : it is heavy ( for older people like me. )
For home use: the weight is not such a problem once it has been installed.

Awkward
I needed an extra adaptor to install the mic stand. Was not included in the package !

For those who might be interested in this stand, plse open following Dutch link  :

https://www.bax-shop.nl/keyboard-statieven/innox-kb-pro-kb-mic-keyboardstatief-en-microfoon-hengelarm.
Euro price.

I have no idea where one can buy it in another country or where Innox is manufactured ( KOREA since 1999, maybe ? ).
Apparently AMAZON is selling Innox. Worldwide ? No idea.

BTW : not suitable for giggers : too heavy, IMHO !

Best wishes, JH

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[John UK]

Although I'm not looking to buy another keyboard, I still get curious about new models, and have been reading your comments about the Medeli Jeff.
There's not much information on the internet about it, but after looking this morning I did find these two reviews.
The second one is quite in depth, it is not in English but you can use Google translate to view it.

https://heathallyn.com/medeli-akx10-review/
https://www.keyboarder-forum.de/threads/testbericht-medeli-akx10-by-musiker-lanze.255770/

Also found a few videos by pcpanik-Musik on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGpcYMgvxIYPr_b0S62U1iA

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi John :

Thank you for your Medeli information.

It is a very nice arranger keyboard for its price and IMHO the sound is very good, comparable to Yamaha.

I bought it whilst the price was so attractive ( only Euro 689,-- ) and ... I was curious. 

Medeli made software ( free of charge ) that converts Yamaha styles.

People compare this AKX10 with the SX600. I am not familiar with the SX600.
BUT ... for me this keyboard is a nice addition to my SX900.

Enjoy your weekend, JH

[reya]

Hi Jeff,

In case you did not know, there is now an expansion pack available for the AKX10 (see video below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wGhA9Icmv8&t=6s

Best Regards.

[Amwilburn]

Too bad Jeff Hollande doesn't appear to be on here anymore; he'd be delighted to learn that Roland *does* now sell a Medeli product!

I had to ask the rep to confirm, but indeed the EX50 repurposes a Medeli chipset, but using Roland styles (and they sound kind of odd; especially when you compare some of the same styles in the Roland FPE50... Roland styles were clearly built around Roland voices and drum kits, and the Medeli ... clearly doesn't. The drum mappings for some of the internal styles even sounds a bit off.

But yeah, Yamaha may have refused to do OEM keyboards, but Roland now does.

Mark

[Toril S]

Interesting!