What's up with Cruise ship bands today

[DrakeM]

We just got back from a 5 day party sea cruise vacation here is what I saw and heard.

There was a violin trio with no singer, a one man reggae steel drum player who also sang, a couple who sang jazz and blues tunes and the young man played guitar, a solo guitar player who sang pop tunes.

All of these "bands" were using full blown backing tracks. Twice I saw ( two different groups) the guitar player making adjustments to his guitar setup and the lead licks were still being played.   

There was also a ship band that performed pop tunes which consisted of 6 singers, keyboard, lead guitar, bass and a drummer. Before the show I went over to the sound man and asked if they would be using a click track. He said yes and everyone was connected to it. Some of the instruments were on the track, as were all the backup singing on the track. I guess they do this in case someone is sick and can't perform.   

The other thing I noted was most of the music was 80's and 90's Pop tunes (no country). Which was weird as I did 2 karaoke country songs, one evening and the room went nuts both times (Boot Scootin' Boogie and I Love this Bar)   

So if folks think I am not a musician because I use an arranger, they just need to get out more and see what the "pros" are using now a days.

Drake

[tyrosrick]

Drake, as far as anyone thinking less of your musicianship because you use an arranger, i say this: I've listened to many of your Youtube presentations, and they are all class acts. In fact, you could be accompanied by a Kalimba and you would STILL be head and shoulders above many of those highly paid and supposedly professional musicians.

[mikf]

Most of the cruise ship musicians I have seen were terrific musicians, especially the ones in the main theater. But there is a lot of technology being used to cut costs. Backing tracks mean less musicians.
But on my last cruise just a couple of months ago, I listened to the 6 piece theater band doing a 2 hour session of  Motown music in a lounge bar. No backing tracks. I spoke with the musical director, and he said that he had only joined the ship 3 weeks before, and this was the first time they had performed the set, and had only managed one quick run thru during the day. Everyone had sheet music and was sight reading, but they were perfect, quite brilliant actually. He played bass in the band, but had spent 4 years studying at music college and could actually play most of the instruments in the band. He also told me that once or twice a week they have 'guest' acts join the ship to do one show. They have to be able to back their whole set using sheet music arrangements with virtually no rehearsal. One day I saw him sitting in a lounge writing out band parts faster than you and I could write a note in English.
These guys are in a different league.
Mike

[travlin-easy]

Drake, I turned down a job on a cruise ship many years ago, they pay is lousy at best, you sleep in tiny room with no windows, and another person that can barely speak English and uses garlic for underarm deodorant.

It is rare to find anything not using tracks on cruise ships and at foreign resorts. They do a good job of faking it, but in many instances, they are just good actors and singers.

When I worked the Florida Keys, there were loads of Have Guitar Will Travel performers there. They played for $75 to $100 for a 4 hour performance, plus tips, which were not much. $50 in tips was considered outstanding for them during a full night.

I was one of two performers in the Keys who used an arranger keyboard. I pulled down $250 for a 3 hour performance, and usually picked up $150 in tips on top of my pay from the facility. I was booked solid, played a lot of country, Jimmy Buffett, 70s and 80s rock, etc... I was playing in Marathon one night when the Entertainment Director of a cruise ship docked in Key West stopped in for dinner. After I finished that set, she and the captain both came to me and asked if I would be interested in performing for them for the next 6 months on the cruise ship. The job paid $800 a week, and the playing schedule would have been at least 48 hours a week of performing, poolside, lounge, restaurant, etc... I told them my fee for that kind of job would have to be at least $6,000 a week, which blew them away. Then, I explained that would be my regular rare while performing at home at Assisted Living Centers, Retirement Communities and Nursing Homes for the same number of hours.

Now you know why they get the guys that perform  with backing tracks and rarely have a real band with real musicians.

Good luck,

Gary

[DrakeM]

Hi Gary,

One fellow at the Senior Center kept suggesting I ought to get a gig on a cruise ship.  I did check out several YouTube videos a few years ago about Cruise ship performers. They said pretty much the same thing you posted. Cramped shared rooms below deck, low pay but by playing so much you sharpen your skills.

I had an offer to perform in Las Vegas back in the late 70's playing on a circuit. It was for playing bass guitar and singing. I was out of college and single back then but I was making a lot more money at my job to quit and mess around doing something like that. Music has always been just a hobby that folks are willing to pay money for in my life.

[dalekwars]

Thought I would chime in here as I have been fortunate to work as a cruise ship guest artist several times . Mainly for Cunard but it is a very strange world indeed on the ships. Like all walks of life there are are the good and bad performers.

When I did my first cruise many years back and wasn't well  known I was what is known as the " cocktail pianist " slave labour would be a better description . 4-5 sets a day of between and hour to 2 hours ...can you imagine playing a piano for 10 hours a day !! Terrible pay, terrible food and yes sharing a cabin .

I came off that cruise , went to my agent and said never again! Fortunately I was getting known in the music world and since then have been flown on and off ships to do guest star concerts , 2 nights etc. wonderful cabins and eat with the passengers and good pay. However there are in equal measure some fantastic undiscovered musicians on ships working for peanuts but also some dreadful dreadful  performers who aren't fit for a holiday camp!  I did once ask one of the cruise directors why the standard was so low ( that was a P & 0 cruise and his honest answer " we make more money on the casinos !! 

[Strideplayer]

Quick reminiscing back to early nineties. I was pianist with a six piece dixieland band and as such we did two 'jazz cruises'. One down the West coast of Mexico, the second one around the Caribean. We were "Playing Passengers," if you will. First class cabins, meals as passengers. There were no other "on-board" musicians. Great memories of a time gone by.

Strideplayer 

[travlin-easy]

In my case, I managed to make a pretty good living as a single, onstage, musician/singer. Though I tried the nite club/restaurant circuit for a while, I really did not enjoy playing for drunks in smoke filled bars or playing just background music in upscale restaurants - I was primarily an entertainer - not a musician, though I can manage to play an arranger keyboard as well as most average players. My secret to success was my vocals.

Early on, I had a 5 piece country band, I played a 12 string guitar and was the lead singer. I also did all the booking, advertisement, booking keeping, and supplied all the mics, lighting and PA equipment. The other members just showed up and plugged into my systems.

Most of the time, we barely made enough to cover expenses and I did most of the legwork and labor. It didn't take long to grow tired of this, but I did enjoy performing with the other band members, so we got together about once a month just for fun.

At the point where I decided to go single, I set everything up as a business, however, it was a sole proprietor operation. I was the talent, book keeper, tax preparer, advertising agent, transportation secretary, etc... Yep, I did it all, and it was a 7 day a week job, 365 days a year, including all holidays. I did lots of doubles and even a few triples, which is insane, until my failing health forced me into retirement at age 78. I didn't want to retire, but when your body is shot Hell you really don't have much of a choice.

Now, as a single, I was able to pull down $125 an hour for my performances, and everyone was charged the same rate - nite clubs, private parties, restaurants, assisted living centers, retirement communities, nursing homes. However, I charged a flat fee of $1,000 for political fund raisers, most of which lasted 4 hours and had a few breaks while the politicians made speeches to the crowd in order to garner as much money as they could rake in, which was beyond your wildest dreams. Most of those in attendance, often 250 to 500 ppl, paid up to $1,000 a plate for finger food just to get an in with a politician. UGH!

I sincerely believe that the primary reason you do not see many arranger keyboard players/entertainers on cruise ships, nite clubs and restaurants is first and foremost, the lousy pay and working conditions. Then, of course, there are the elitist that don't think that an arranger keyboard is a real instrument and that playing one equates to nothing more than Karaoke. IMHO, learning to effectively play an arranger keyboard takes a lot more skill and training that any other instrument. Now only does an arranger keyboard player have to have the talent to play and perform, they muse also be technically skilled in learning all the intricacies of the keyboard's operating system and the use of it's hundreds upon hundreds of features. For me, playing a 12 string guitar and singing was easy, but it took more than a year of learning to utilize the arranger keyboard effectively as an entertainment instrument.

Good subject, Drake,

Gary

[mikf]

You don't see arranger players very often anywhere performing in restaurants, clubs etc and it's no different on cruise ships. There are a lot of reasons for this. But I don't think skill set is one of them. Main reason is probably that it is not the mainstream instrument of choice for young aspiring keyboard players.
Mike

[BogdanH]

@Gary
I quite agree with you: an arranger is not an easy to play instrument! Or to put it differently, it's the same as is with any other real instrument: a lot of skill is needed for good performance.

I think one of the reasons why arranger has bad reputation, is because it's not an acoustic instrument -it is seen as a (cheap) replacement of a real thing. And then there's also people's prejudice in sense "he can't do much on that small thing" (unless we show up with some more visually impressive gear).
And that also explains why we don't see many arrangers in restaurants and clubs: it's because owner wish to impress the audience too, so he (the owner) wouldn't be seen as cheapo. Yes, I think it's a little snobbery in all that.

But we shouldn't forget the most important thing: there aren't many arranger players that have the required skill & talent. On arranger instrument it all starts with having good styles (or arrangements, if you wish).. and here only a little adjustments of some generic styles simply won't do the job.
I don't say music played on arranger should sound exactly as original. It's opposite actually: it must sound differently enough, so audience doesn't think it's playback.

Just my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Divemaster]

I always think the best way of dealing with these elitist snobby instrument players is to just let them live their dream in their own pompous little world.

The beauty of an arranger is in its versatility, and we're a much more friendly bunch! We don't DO Ego! 😂

[mikf]

I think Yamaha would be very disappointed if we say the arranger is not an easy to play instrument. I believe that is the main selling point of an arranger. That's why Gary with no keyboard experience was able to be out there performing in public in a year - any other keyboard than an arranger it would be many, many years.
Learning to operate an arranger is really the easy bit, learning to play is the hard bit. Great players are what make arrangers sound great, not great technicians.
Mike

[DrakeM]

Actually Gary did the really, really hard work and that was HE learned to sing the actual song. Now that took years to learn to do.

Any one can learn to play a Piano and it doesn't take years to learn. Come on, you can learn 5 or 6 chords (tops) for playing any pop song and that is what folks want to hear. Play every thing in the key of "C". Simple to learn.

If you want a different key .... transpose it with a button.

The worst thing is hearing someone play a piano piece you have never heard that has words. It's fine to listen to if YOU know the words of the song and sing them in your mind. Other wise it is boring to hear and background music at best. Words are what makes the songs popular, the music just supports it.

Drake

[travlin-easy]

I agree,Drake. It took me decades to learn those songs, plus have the ability to sing them in time while playing the keyboard.

It's called entertainment,

Gary

[BogdanH]

I think Yamaha would be very disappointed if we say the arranger is not an easy to play instrument. I believe that is the main selling point of an arranger.

Yamaha is telling that ("anyone can play on our keyboard") to convince us into buying -simple as that. It's not the problem playing on the keyboard, the question is how good are we at that.
If we compare apple to apple, playing a piano on arranger requires the same skill (talent, whatever) as does playing on $50k acoustic piano. However, a player on arranger usually isn't recognized as a "pianist".. until he sits behind real piano.

...Great players are what make arrangers sound great, not great technicians.

Exactly! ..but why is usually assumed that arranger player "just can't be" good player? Because he's playing on a "toy"?

Arranger is relative cheap and so almost anyone interested can afford it. But that also means that there's a big amount of lousy players (someone has put a mirror infront of me  ) -that's to be expected. But then, some have acoustic piano only for decoration...

When I said that arranger is difficult play, that had nothing to do with being a technician: what I had in mind, is talent and skill that's required for arranger.

Bogdan

[travlin-easy]

In my case, I was always technically minded, particularly when it came to electronics and electronic devices. Therefore, sitting down with the user manual at the keyboard and going through each feature, step by step, for an entire year, was a labor of love, so to speak. Most folks rarely take their user manual out of the zip-loc bag it arrived in, but instead, head for their PC and try to find answers on the Internet forums.

At age 12, I was the neighborhood kid that picked all the junk radios out of the trash cans, then brought them home and striped them out for parts. By age 13 I had constructed my first short wave transmitter and receiver from those parts and managed at the same time to learn Morse Code and obtain my general class, HAM Radio Operators License, W3JQL. When I enlisted in the US Navy, they tested me for Morse Code and at that time, age 17, I could send and receive CW, using a Bug, at 55 to 60 WPM.

What has all this to do with arranger keyboards. Well, to begin with, I could not read music, at least not while performing. For me, though, that was OK, because I learned to play the sounds I was hearing. I managed to teach myself those chords on a 6 string guitar, 12 string guitar, mandolin, and yes, even an old upright piano. The timing came naturally to me, so that was never a problem. Now, it was pretty easy to lug a 12-string guitar to a job along with a 100-watt amp, a mic stand and wiring to any job. One trip in and out, easy peasy! Well, there was no way I was going to lug a portable piano to a job, and still end up with a single instrument that did not provide me with the versatility and style variety that an arranger keyboard provides.

I was often looked down upon by some of the musicians in my audiences that said an arranger keyboard is not a real instrument. Obviously, I am not a purist! However, those that looked down on me were sitting in MY audiences. They were not working, while I was working 7 days a week for top dollar. With very few exceptions, they all had to work jobs outside of music in order to make a living, support their family and pay the bills. I became self employed in 1975 and a full time, musical entertainer in 1982. I never looked back!

I came to this forum many years ago for technical assistance, which I was able to obtain from Joe Waters. From that point on, I ended up providing technical assistance to other forum members ever since. Recently, we  have managed to recruit other moderators who have done an outstanding job of providing new members with assistance in a variety of subjects, which has taken a great load off this old mans shoulders. For that, I am eternally grateful.

At age 83, I decided to go back to doing something creative outside the world of musical entertainment and got back into woodworking. I just finished constructing an 8-foot X 40-inch dining room table from a slab of Mappa Burl, encased in blackened epoxy. The legs are made of black, powder coated steel and the table weighs 275 pounds and seats 10 comfortably. I made a red oak end table for my son that measures 18 X 18 inches, and a Mappa Burl serving tray for my daughter in law with gold handles. Now, I am working on another end table, made from Mappa Burl, and measures about 20 X 22 inches and using the natural edge. It is a long process, but the end results are incredible.

As the saying goes, "Sometimes you have to think outside the box!"

All the best,

Gary

[Divemaster]

That's some journey!

It's thanks to guys like you, Drake, Joe, and many others that these forums exist!

So from me.... Thank you Gary. 

Keith

[mikf]

Bogdan
The advantage of arrangers is that if you can learn to play a few chords, and pick out a melody, you can sound quite good. You can't do that on a conventional keyboard. To sound good takes a much higher level of ability. Drake is way off on that.
Some very skilled keyboard players buy arrangers to benefit from the terrific functions. The Yamaha demonstrators for example are brilliant keyboard players.  No musician is ever going to disparage a fantastic keyboard players just because he is playing an arranger. If they are good they are obviously good, and generally admired, just like any good player. Not as someone playing a toy.
The problem with the overall view of arrangers is that people are seldom exposed to those players, because they are a small minority. What they generally hear when someone plays an arranger is someone playing a few chords and a melody, and musicians know this doesn't take much skill.
Mike

[DrakeM]

@ Mike

It's exactly why I play an arranger and not a simple piano (or a guitar in my case). I can make a lot more music to back me up with an arranger. 

I guess singers like Blake Shelton, Michael Bublé, Taylor Swift are actually Karaoke performers. As they are just singing with a backup band which is following a preset sheet of notes. Seems to be the same thing to me any way.

A professionally college trained pianist and I crossed paths yesterday for the first time. We have played at the same venue for several years but have need played on the same day until 2 days ago. 

I watched her working at the venue's piano and reading her musical score. She was playing tunes from the Great American Songbook, as best as I could tell. She stayed around for lunch and thus caught my act. A little over half way through, she came up and asked if she could stand beside to see what it was I was doing. "Sure", I said.

After the song, she asked what was that I was reading. It was my lead sheet that had the words, chords, letters noting when to change style parts and Numbers (not notes) that represented riffs/licks. The rest I play on the fly. I think it blew her mind. 

[travlin-easy]

I agree, Drake. I have experienced the same when pianist and other instrument players come up and ask to see what I am doing. The first thing they are looking for is lead sheets, which I do not use as the majority of my performances are done from what I have memorized in my aging brain - lyrics, chord changes, fills, breaks, etc... They are blown away when I do this and often say "I could NEVER do that in a million years."

I learned to play piano when I was a 5 year old kid and my father brought an old upright into out tiny home in West Baltimore. It was given to him by someone that owed him some money for a loan he had made to them and were not able to pay him back. Within a few days I was plinking out popular songs from the early 1940s that I heard on the radio, but for the life of me, I can no longer recall the names of the songs. Seems like it was only yesterday, though, but that was 78 years ago.

My mother thought I was a natural and sent me up the street to the local piano teacher for lessons, which back then were less than $1 an hour. Her husband tuned the piano for $5, which was a lot of money back then.  After about 6 weeks, the teacher came to our front door and handed my mother her money back, saying "He will never learn to play piano." My mother said "He can play now, he plays every day, your lessons must be working." The teaches said "No, he can't read the music, he just plays what he hears in his head - not from the sheet music." At which point she walked away.

In my part of the world, we have had several arranger keyboard players/entertainers inducted into the local "Musician's Hall Of Fame" for their performance skills. Most also played other instruments as well, including sax, piano, guitar, fiddle, mandolin, etc... Unfortunately, most of those old guys have long since passed and I miss them dearly as many were good friends for decades. We all got together at least once a year and had fun at an all day jam session at one of their homes or at a state park. When we did them at the park, hundreds of people showed up for the free entertainment and lots of them tailgated with every imaginable food from burgers and dogs to cowboy steaks and hams, all cooked on grills and smokers they towed behind them. I felt privileged just to be among them.

One of the most talented piano players I have ever encountered was Jerry Burns. He was Peabody trained and his wife, Elsa, was a wonderful, Jazz singer. They often worked with the Zim" Zemarel Band and performed a few times at the White House on the North Lawn/ Jerry knew more than 15,000 songs by heart, and could play pretty much anything that anyone wanted to hear. He was getting just $50 a night in an upscale Baltimore restaurant for a 4-hour performance as a duo with Elsa. He soon switched to using a Yamaha PSR-500 and got a pay increase to $100 at the same venue. Before he an Elsa passed away, he was performing nearly every night with a PSR-3000 and pulling down $150 plus tips a night and working 6 nights a week in Baltimore's Little Italy at Da Mimmo's, considered one of the top restaurants in Baltimore. He attributed his musical success to the advent of  arranger keyboards. Though he often said he missed playing piano, he could do so much more with an arranger keyboard and Elsa said the backing from the keyboard made singing those jazz songs a lot more fun.

Sorry Mike, but I must disagree with you on this subject.

All the best,

Gary

[mikf]

Drake, without being disrespectful, I cannot agree with what you say about using an arranger because it provides a lot more music to back someone up.  The reason most people play arrangers is because at the level they play, without that back up, it would sound pretty awful,.... like a 10 year old beginner. That is the reality. Set the arranger to full piano, and just play chord and simple melody, and you will hear that for yourself.
Nothing wrong with that, it's why people buy them, and it lets them enjoy playing, and encourages them to carry on working at it. If they had bought a piano they would probably give up, and that is not what it's about. However, when they go out in public and play at that level, it does attract some not very complimentary comments about their ability. Is that really surprising? And it's where the negative view of arrangers comes from. It creates the perception that it's the technology not the player. I don't think that's elitism, or arrogance, because from the perspective of a competent piano player, it's actually pretty true.

Gary, I am full of admiration for the way that you organized yourself, worked hard and made a good living out of the music business. Not too many can do that. You were an outstanding small businessman as well as a talented entertainer. The arranger technology came along at just the right time for you, and you recognized it's potential for your business, worked at it, and leveraged its full capability to allow you to showcase your vocal and entertainment talents very successfully. I think you are well aware that your keyboard skills were limited, but the arranger allowed you to not have that as an obstacle to your success. There are many others who were more talented musicians and keyboard players, but they cannot match your combination of outstanding vocal and entertainment talent, marketing acumen and business organization. You should be very proud of what you achieved, and not just a flash in the pan, but over a very long time.

Mike

[travlin-easy]

Thank Mike, I truly appreciate your compliments on my success over nearly 4 decades on stage.

Gary