Chords, bass lines and keyboard range for initiating accompaniment.

[jayfield]

Ive been looking for a clear explanation of how Genos interprets chords and what keyboard range they need to be played in. I tend to play open voicing chords because of my jazz background but often the accompaniment is incorrect. Also the bass lines can at times be all over the place. I get better results when I turn off arpeggiators in the channel window.  A brief tutorial on all this would be wonderful if someone knows where my queries are explained clearly.

I didn't find the manual explained my issue well at all.

Thanks

[mikf]

A very quick way to find out is to play a chord and look at the screen which will tell you how the notes have been interpreted by the system. It can depend on the mode of fingering chosen. And of course the keyboard range the system looks at to interpret the chord also depends on the mode selected and split points. If you use a lh chord mode rather than the full keyboard, then using open chords an be a problem because you may not be playing enough notes for the system to define the chord.
Mike

[jayfield]

I suppose playing 9ths, drop two voicing and altered chords is probably not gonna work.
Do chords play properly using 3 part chords.  I assume being in root position works best?

Different styles and playlists seem to auto accompany differently. Not sure why

Thanks

[jayfield]

I have fiddled with the OTS quite a bit, but it seems to be doing different arps depending on what style or playlist I am on.  Perhaps Im going out of the correct range. Really not sure and sorry for harping on this. Still would love to see a video explanation and tutorial.

[BogdanH]

...
Do chords play properly using 3 part chords.  I assume being in root position works best?

Different styles and playlists seem to auto accompany differently. Not sure why

My english language is quite limited when it comes to musical terminology and so I apologize in forward if I misunderstood the question.

In general there are two things that influence which (chord) notes style will play when we press certain keys (with left hand). Mike already mentioned fingering modes. Simple explanation for fingering modes would be: it defines how many keys we need to press, so keyboard can recognize the desired chord. Depending on song (on style actually), sometimes a single key (which is recognized as root chord key) is enough and so we can easily change chords by pressing one key only -let's call that a beginner or easy mode.
But when using some styles, we realize that resulting chord doesn't sound right if we press one (root chord) key only. Usually we need to press two or even three keys for chord to sound correct -especially when we play some exotic chords.

From what I just said above, here's my advice for those who just started to learn playing: try to play three keys for selecting the chord -because only in that case every style will always play correct chord (as designed in style) on all tracks.
If we use three keys for chord selection, then we don't necessary need to select root chord keys. For example, if we select either root chord (C1-E1-G1), 1st inverse chord (E1-G1-C2) or 2nd inverse chord (G1-C2-E2), the result will always be the same: C chord
Here I'm just telling the obvious, because that's something that we can easily find out by simply trying.

Now comes more complicated style related stuff, which is quite hard to explain with words (at least with my english)... The thing is, it depends entirely on style what notes style will play when we play certain chord. For example, if we play C chord, it can play root chord or 1st inverse chord or 2nd inverse chord.
And it can get much more complicated: it can play root chord notes for main chord (C1-E1-G1), but when we switch to G chord, it will play 1st inverse G chord notes or 2nd inverse E chord notes when we switch to E chord. How can that be, if in style only one chord is defined in track? And it gets even more confusing when we start with some exotic chords, where we can get unpredictable results.
For generic styles all that is usually less important (majority plays them in C key anyway), although we can notice that something is not right when we try to use such style for very specific music.
But in case when we talk about custom styles (style that was created for specific song) and we share such style, then it should always be mentioned for what key style was designed. That is, in what key the song should be played -otherwise style tracks (chords) might not sound properly.

What I'm saying is, it all depends on how style is created and the answers are in Reference Manual (starting at page 28) -the section that nobody reads.

Ok, that's it... yeah, sometimes I'm confused too 
Bogdan

[mikf]

There are really two different things happening all the time on an arranger. One is chord recognition, the other as Bogdan has tried to describe is how the style is programmed for that chord.
On chord recognition, the thing is that a collection of notes can often be described in multiple ways. If you then alter the note sequence, and open the chord up by leaving out a couple of notes, what is it now? Jazz pianists often play very open inversions, but that's because the bass player and maybe other instruments are playing notes that complete the harmony. But an arranger is not psychic. You have to provide it with at least a chance of recognizing the chord. Just think, could I describe the chord accurately from what I played?
But on the second issue, even if you do that, and the arranger recognizes and correctly interprets the harmony, you still are subject to what is programmed to happen in the accompaniment when that chord is played.
The bottom line is that the chord recognition on modern arrangers is now very good, but it can't read your mind. You have to give it a chance.
Mike

[BogdanH]

...
Jazz pianists often play very open inversions, but that's because the bass player and maybe other instruments are playing notes that complete the harmony. ...

YES! - that's how tracks in custom styles can be (and usually are) defined.
If we play the song in the key for which style was designed, then musicians (tracks) will play in "harmony". But if we decide to play in another key (let's say in C-key instead of A-key for which style was created), then it can happen that some musicians (style tracks) are not in harmony anymore (although they still play correct chords).

For pop music (oldies and similar) that's usually not really a problem, because it's less disturbing and is many times not even noticeable -as long accompaniment sounds nice for particular song. For jazzy music however, where only maybe 2-3 instruments (tracks) are used, every note matters -or harmony can be lost when using certain chords.

hmm... I think I talk too much 
Bogdan

[mikf]

Bogdan, it shouldn't really affect key changes, as the algorithm takes account of that. But it can be screwed up badly if the chord recognition is simultaneously off.
Take a real simple example. Say the style has been programmed to play the bass for the second inversion. If the chord is Cmaj6 then that is a G bass. But Cmaj6 is very similar to Amin. So if you play an open chord and the keyboard recognizes it as Amin instead of Cmaj6 the bass note it would play is E. Now that is a very simple example, and E versus G in that case may not matter much. But what if you are playing a more  complicated chord like F#minb5, and you change the inversion or play an open chord without all the notes, now who knows what bass note it might play
Now imagine that multiplied up over all the notes and chords being played in quick succession programmed in the style and all the possible chord 'errors' from playing open inversions  ....the harmony could easily get pretty screwed up. and there are the different fingering modes, like full keyboard where rh notes also count,......all in all could get pretty wild. 
Mike

[jayfield]

 Playing this amazing board is much easier after a better understanding and also turning off OTS link and auto fill in. Advice much appreciated good folks!

[jayfield]

After much appreciated help on this forum my final tweak was simply to change the Fingering Type to AI FULL KEYBOARD. Now she plays almost perfect in my style of playing. Ill say it once again:  "This board is off the chart amazing"!!

[mikf]

AI full keyboard is my default mode. It suits piano players best because they often complete the harmony across both hands. And it still works fairly well even when you drive only from lh.
Mike

[Amwilburn]

Hi Jay!

If you're going to play *piano* style with 2 hands, then you need to play Full Keyboard AI (full keyboard also works, but will *only* change when playing 3 different notes simultaneously, so for most uses I'd recommend AI Full Keyboard)

*HOWEVER* you cannot use OTS with that, as OTS often selects solo sounds. By all means, use OTS to explore you keyboard (you should) but then you need to play ai fingered on the left hand *only*; ie right hand is only for melody at that point

But for your normal playing, *polyphonic* voices only: Piano, Electric Piano, Organ, String ensembles, Brass and woodwind *ensembles* (not solo instruments), Guitar, Chromatic percussion, pad synths, choirs.

Cheers!

Mark