what is the purpose of midi files

[madirv]

Hi everyone,
I'm sure most of you will think this is a really stupid question so I apologise in advance!!!!!!!
Can anyone tell me what is the real purpose of a midi file on a keyboard?
I have several USB sticks which I purchased and these contain midi files and styles.  The midi files are called songs on these sticks so I have to press song to listen to it and style to then play the song.
What I don't understand is the purpose of these.  They are nice to listen to but that seems to me to be like buying a CD or something so am wondering do you use them somehow when playing yourself?
As an example I recently played La Paloma and the midi was really lovely.  I looked at the channels and could see by the green lights that were blinking what the instruments playing were but the style that the keyboard played bore no resemblance whatsoever to that on the midi file.  I have tried playing along with it but this is useless as it just drowns out my playing.
Im sure Im missing something obvious and would be pleased to hear what!!
Regards
Irene

[travlin-easy]

The only real benefit of MIDI files is you can learn to play a song from them, particularly if the MIDI file was created in your keyboard and seeks out the original style file. Then, you can mute one of the channels playing the lead instrument, and play along with the song, thereby making it a bit easier to learn the song.

I have never heard of a song called La Paloma, however, I have performed Una Paloma Blanca, which loosely translated means A White Dove. Many years ago, I posted a style file for this song on this site.

Hope this helps,

Gary

[madirv]

Thanks Gary.  This was the impression I had but thought there was possibly more to it than that.
La Paloma is a really old Italian song and featured in an Elvis Presley movie (that dates me dunnit ) and was called "No More".  I THINK the movie was Blue Hawaii

Thanks again---I can rest easy now that Im not missing anything
Irene

[Al Ram]

Irene

Here is the song you are referring to . . . . La Paloma by Elvis Presley . . . . which is actually a cover of a very old Spanish song (at least 150 years) . . . . .

Elvis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_YW6NqhvJQ

Here is another cover of the Spanish original . . . by Placido Domingo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X1Q9rfoy-w

Maybe it is the same one Gary is referring to as Paloma Blanca  . . . . . . not sure . . . .

Have a great day everyone . . . . .

p.s. I do not use midi files . . . .  so, i have no contribution about that . . . .

[mikf]

Irene
I think a bit more depth about midi might be useful - what it is, why we use it and why it is one of the most powerful tools in music.
MIDI means Musical Instrument Digital Interface, and is a protocol to allow transfer of musical data between hardware like some musical instruments, computers and other peripherals. It contains no sound, just the 'instructions' to a device which allows it to play music when the device has the right sound processors and effects. In some ways you can think of it as doing digitally what you do when you play and operate the keyboard.
MIDI has many advantages in editing, and music transfer, not the least of which is that the files are relatively small, - much, much smaller than even the very compressed audio files like MP3s. So speed of transfer and use of memory space is optimal. In fact, in the fairly recent past, when memory and disc drive was expensive, many of these keyboards could only record using midi. You will have seen the advantage of this in the way that you can download large amounts of these files, often zipped, fairly efficiently.
Advances in the technology and cost reduction, now allow audio recording as a matter of course on most of the best keyboards. But there are still advantages in recording to midi first, and doing any editing before changing it to an audio file. Most of our most experienced players will probably still do this before finalizing a mix, or edit, and finally changing to a finished audio file - like .wav or MP3.
Style files are another example of the use of midi. Style files are essentially midi loops which the keyboard software can manipulate to allow you to drive accompaniment by pressing keys. In fact you could say that MIDI was the enabler of sophisticated, yet low cost, arranger keyboards becoming popular.

A couple of simple examples of where midi makes editing easier  - seamless elimination or replacement of sections, something much harder to do when there is sound wave files. Another is that the tempo of a midi can be changed without changing pitch, something which takes very sophisticated software when sound waves are involved. Try playing an old fashioned record at the wrong speed and you will know what I mean.  This only scratches the surface of why midi is an immensely important tool in music.
Of course, all this may not directly answer your original question as to how you personally might use it. First thing is not to get confused by the 'song' word because 'song' is often used interchangeably for both audio and midi recordings.
Audio recordings are pretty fixed in nature, but a midi recording allows more manipulation by you. For example you can play it at any speed and the key or pitch doesn't change. That might be good for practice, or simply because you prefer a different tempo. You could also edit it quite extensively if so desired.

Sorry for the long read, but hope  you find this useful, - or at least informative.
Mike

[PierreSW]

Midi files are also a sheet of music, where you can see
the notes on each channel recorded.
The keyboard has a button to show this and choose which channel you want to watch.
and if the key doesn't fit, you can also change it.
// Pierre

[BogdanH]

@Gary
I must say that I'm quite surprised you never heard traditional "La paloma" song (Una paloma blanca is totally different pop genre song).

@Irene
About Midi files... Mike described the purpose & functionality pretty well. In short, it's a digital description (series of commands) of music notes, so digital devices can playback them as music. Btw. you can also record your playing as midi file on your keyboard (instead of audio file). When you do that, every pressed key on keybed is memorized (when, how hard and for how long it was spressed) and written into midi file. At the same time it is also memorized what voice is used for particular note, etc.
If you record your playing as audio file (mp3 or wav), then everyone listening to that file, will hear that music exactly as you do. But that's not the case with midi file. For midi file to sound the same (as you hear it), the same voices must also be present on keyboard (or on PC). If that's not the case, then the result might be very different of what you hear: tempo and notes will be the same, but different voices will be used instead.

Midi (it's properties) is very useful in creating music, if keyboard is connected to PC and specialized (DAW) software is used. But not so much for musician (player), in my opinion. As someone before mentioned, the only usage I see is, learning how to play. Especially for someone who is not that familiar with musical notation: in that case some midi playback tool can be used on PC, showing which keys/chords are used (i.e. Synthesia or Piano From Above ).
Btw. we can also create a style from midi file if we know how to (as mentioned, style is the same as midi file -it's just organized differently). But that is in most cases a big waste of time.. that time is better spent for learning how to create styles from scratch.

Bogdan

[Roger Brenizer]

Midi files are also very useful for creating sheet music. I frequently use MuseScore to create lead sheets and piano scores.

[madirv]

Well thank you everyone for all your comments.  There's a fair bit of info for me to absorb!!!
First off thanks Gary and Al----I too am surprised that you had not heard of La Paloma, Gary,   its ancient!!!!  I thought it was Italian but Al points out that it is Spanish---well at least I got the name of the Elvis movie right 

Mike---thanks too, for all that info.  When I got my previous keyboard (PSR S975) I thought I was reading a foreign language and so set about trying to find out what midi files and audio files were as there seemed a lot of buttons on the keyboard that I didn't understand.  After much trawling on Google I did manage to understand that midi appeared to be a set of "signals" ( I imagined rather like morse code!!! and that whatever gadget you played it through would translate it into something or other) and that audio files seemed to be something like an exact recording of something.  I put this info to one side in the memory bank for future use when I had mastered other aspects of the keyboard!!!!!!. 
Fairly recently, and having acquired just a little more knowledge of the keyboard, I ventured back into this strange world but I felt there was something missing as I couldn't quite see the point of it all.  All these responses have confirmed that I do not really need midi.  I can listen to them and pick out instruments and try to replicate the sound, or adjust it to my own preference but it seems the main advantage is to edit stuff and re create your own music.
I'm not into that!!!!
I just play it!!!!
What I did like, though, is that  most of them have the score included so I can use that as my sheet music.

Bogdan---- thanks yet again for your explanation---this has made it quite clear to me that I do not actually need midi files---am sending you an email

And Finally Roger.   I had forgotten that I did use that Musescore program a while ago to create sheet music from the midis I had) but the program was everlasting crashing on the PC (its temperamental) and eventually I just uninstalled it.

Thank you to all of you for your helpful responses. 
Best regards
Irene

[mikf]

Irene
Actually you do need midi, because these keyboards are essentially midi instruments. Pretty every aspect of their functionality is dependent on midi. It's just that you don't have to understand it or use it directly, in the same way that you post messages in this forum without understanding, or even giving any thought to, your computer, iPhone or IPad operating system. It is all done for you in the background. Unless you choose to do things that need you to directly interface with it.
I think the simplest way to picture what midi is, is to think of the old piano rolls. They are just rolls of paper with holes in them, and you can sit and look at them all day but they can't make a sound! But put them in the piano with a roll player and lo and behold, it plays the piano just like you were playing it. On the other hand a record is a capturing of all the sound waves emanating from the piano when it is played. You can do what you like with that record, but can never make it play the piano!
Mike

[madirv]

Thanks Mike.   I guess what I was really wondering about was the "using it directly" bit.   I thought I should be doing something with it other than just listening to a  tune.  I doubt that I will ever do anything directly with them now though.
You may recall that you encouraged me to always ask questions on this forum no matter how simple they may be.   I did warn you that you might regret that  statement

[Duffy]

Thanks Mike.   I guess what I was really wondering about was the "using it directly" bit.   I thought I should be doing something with it other than just listening to a  tune.  I doubt that I will ever do anything directly with them now though.
You may recall that you encouraged me to always ask questions on this forum no matter how simple they may be.   I did warn you that you might regret that  statement

You can have quite a bit of fun with midi files and some people do perform along with them instead of a style or even together with a style..
Besides being able to change the key and speed up / slow down, the midi file you can easily switch parts on or off and change volume of every part or change volume of whole midi on your board.
Have a good read of your manual and with some practise, it will become clear to you.
Really good quality Midi files make all the difference rather than those which some player has knocked up in 2 minutes.

[pjd]

Yeah, "La Paloma". Pretty much any mariachi who is worth their salt knows this one. 

MIDI. Wow, this discussion has jumped into the (digital) weeds.

Short story. We all want to have some fun and play along with the music. Our arrangers give us three different ways to play a background for our fun: MIDI files, styles, audio.

Audio we get -- it's like playing along to the radio. MIDI files tell the arranger what notes to play (and then some). The arranger generates the sound from those notes. Styles are more free-form. We play the chords and the arranger auto-accompaniment does the rest.

The arranger handles MIDI files, styles and audio separately and (somewhat) independently. That's why you don't see/hear much relationship between a MIDI file and a style with the same name.

Hope this short explanation is good enough  -- pj

[TiasDad]

I often use midi files through various software to create styles and multipads.

If I find a song with a difficult lead break, I will often save that as an intro in a style or as a multipad so I don't have to struggle playing it.

[Ronbo]

Not to forget "Karaoke" files

these are midi files too ...... and have words for your singing pleasure.


A whole new world to explore

regards,


Ron.

This is a great thread.

[Roger Brenizer]

And Finally Roger.   I had forgotten that I did use that Musescore program a while ago to create sheet music from the midis I had) but the program was everlasting crashing on the PC (its temperamental) and eventually I just uninstalled it.

Thank you to all of you for your helpful responses. 
Best regards
Irene

I've been using MuseScore for years and I've not had that experience with the program. You may want to try a newer version. I have both Version 3 and the latest Version 4 installed on my laptop and desktops.

[madirv]

Thanks Roger .  I'm pretty sure its my PC.  I use a chromebook and this wont recognise MuseScore so I use the PC.  I use it rarely as its very slow and gets jammed up with updates and is perpetually freezing and the musescore programme just continually comes up with the message "not responding".
Ill perhaps give it another go as it is currently up to date---its just that chromebooks are so much faster that I use that all the time.
In the days when it did work I did print off several pieces of music.

[travlin-easy]

For the Elvis rendition, I would use the 60s vintage Pop style with a tempo of 132.

For the traditional Placido Domingo song, I would use the Rumba style in the Ballroom category, tempo of 112, "A" variation.

Don't be surprised that I didn't know this song, I'm pretty old but there are a few songs that I either do not remember well, or just never heard. Not many, though!;)

Just to give you the value of a midi file for learning a new song, a couple weeks ago, on the Keyboard Players UK site I accepted a challenge to perform a song performed in Latin, but instead of performing it in Latin, I was challenged to do it in English. As most folks know, some lyrics do not translate well from Latin to English. The wording is difficult at best, and the phrasing can be a nightmare. I listened to the song, used google translate to translate the lyrics to English, then searched the Latin section of my S-950 for what I thought would be an appropriate style. The original author/writer/performer of the song absolutely loved what I came up with. Here's a link to my end product, which I made by listening to the midi file, which allowed me to determine the chords and the changes. https://app.box.com/s/ytcgjmmxslt1bx3cuuqj3pkn3st6hmia

Gary

[dlepera]

Folks,

   Great topic and very interesting stuff.  I have often wondered myself what they were and how they were used.  I have used them basically to learn how to play some songs.  Long time ago I asked how to turn some sounds down as I not only wanted to learn how to play the right hand but also wanted to learn the chords as I do not read music at all.  Find them very useful.   
           
  Gary, you did a wonderful job. Very enjoyable.  I am sure you enjoyed the challenge. Thanks for sharing.

    Regards. dom

[dlepera]

Folks,

  While on this subject of this song and midi, can I ask a question which is kind of driving me crazy?
I play this song starting on the key of G just like in the Elvis Presley "No More" La Paloma in "Blue Hawaii" that AL posted.  After reading this post I located a mid "La Paloma Ty. This one starts in Eb after the into. 

My question is how can I transpose this so that I can actually play along with it in the Key of G and not Eb.
Yes I can really play it in any key I want but trying to understand how to make a direct tranposition with a midi if it is possible. So to be clear it is not to transpose to suit a singer in any key but for me to actually play along with the midi in G. Am I sounding like I have no idea what I am saying? Hope not?.

Never been able to figure it out. Some midis are just a little too complex for me to play along at first so being able to transpose them so that I can play them in the actual key of C, G or A even and learn the song first, then play it on the actual key in the midi would make my life much easier? 

               dom

[BogdanH]

hello dom
Yes, that's possible. Maybe there are dedicated tools for midi transposition, but I know you can do that by using DAW software (i.e. free Cakewalk).
Process is quite simple.. you load midi file, select which midi channels (voices) you wish to change (would be all in this case) and then choose menu Process>Transpose...  here you can set by how much semitones (up or down) you wish to transpose. When done, you just save as new midi file.

Bogdan

[Powerkeys]

I think in the manual from the sx700/900 can be found on how to transpose your tone setting.

I don't know if this is what you meant?

 Pitch Shift
Similar to the Transpose function for MIDI songs, this allows you to shift the pitch of an
audio song in half-note steps (from -12 to 12).

[Bernie9]

I use smfs quite often when I want an authentic cover to songs. I use AUDACITY and GNMIDI to manipulate the midi in different ways, from lowering volume or muting parts, to changing keys and instruments, etc. Some keyboards like the Audya and others, gave you a choice of changing the key of the midi, or changing the key of the keyboard alone. This would allow you to play an Eb song in Eb, but fingered as C e.g. I can't say what keyboards will do this today, but it is an easy method. These days I play in the given key, or change it. The quality of the SMF sound is dependent on the sound source, but it can be manipulated in so many ways using one of the programs. For simple tasks like key change or muting melody, the sequencer on the keyboard will even handle it.

[Duffy]

Folks,

  While on this subject of this song and midi, can I ask a question which is kind of driving me crazy?
I play this song starting on the key of G just like in the Elvis Presley "No More" La Paloma in "Blue Hawaii" that AL posted.  After reading this post I located a mid "La Paloma Ty. This one starts in Eb after the into. 

My question is how can I transpose this so that I can actually play along with it in the Key of G and not Eb.
Yes I can really play it in any key I want but trying to understand how to make a direct tranposition with a midi if it is possible. So to be clear it is not to transpose to suit a singer in any key but for me to actually play along with the midi in G. Am I sounding like I have no idea what I am saying? Hope not?.


Never been able to figure it out. Some midis are just a little too complex for me to play along at first so being able to transpose them so that I can play them in the actual key of C, G or A even and learn the song first, then play it on the actual key in the midi would make my life much easier? 

               dom

If you open the Transpose section of your board, you can choose to transpose either the song alone, or the keyboard alone whilst song plays original key, or transpose the whole lot to any key you wish.
Just realised, I am referring to a Genos, so maybe it isn't as easy on your board but try it anyway.

[EileenL]

It is the same on most Yamaha Keyboards.

[dlepera]

You have   ALL  been very helpful with your suggestions and I really appreciate all the options that you have provided me.

  The simplest and most direct I found is Duffy's method -open the Transpose section of your keyboard. I had always assumed that the Transponder button on the keyboard was the same as the one in the menu, wrong! The button only controls the "SONG" from what I saw.

   So, I opened the Transponder section and set the "KEYBOARD" to a -4 value and I was able to play the fingering along with the midi in C.

  Thank you all !! very much!! for shedding light on this mystery of mine and this has now opened a whole new opportunity for me.

      Best regards!   Thanks again!               dom

[Bill]

Hi Irene

Have a quick look at the YouTube Vid, it will give you more reasons to understand why MIDI is not always that complicated.

https://youtu.be/7UOtrAkz824

Bill

[madirv]

Thank you for that Bill.
I do appreciate all these responses and the time people have taken in explaining to me what can be done with midi files but I am now convinced that there is nothing I can do with these midis except that which I mentioned in my original post.   All I will ever do with them is listen to them, look at the instruments being used, and then try to create a similar version.

I am not a professional musician, I never have, and never will, play in public and I have no interest in creating music.   I simply play the keyboard, at home for my own enjoyment.  The only person who has ever heard me play is my husband--and that is usually through 2 closed doors  or under sufferance when I ask him if this sounds like a good arrangement

I am pleased to learn though that I had not misunderstood their purpose and I am not missing something obvious that I, personally, could use them for, because it is now even more clear to me that I can't!!!!!! 

On a positive note though I have now cracked La Paloma    I found a built in style on the preset styles called "Paloma Blanca" and set it up with pan pipes etc and as near as dammit it sounds like the midi.   So- job's a good 'un   

I am grateful to you all though for your time and comments.
Thank you
Regards
Irene