New Genos with 61, 76 en 88 keys will appear well within a year from now!

[EileenL]

Would prefer to wait for a new model rather than spend out on a few additions to what we already have.

[Jan-Eve]

Long time since I was here on this forum, but I read all the discussions, and I´m interested what Yamaha will come out with next. I have Yamaha PSR - S 950. I bought it 2012 and it has served me very well.
If Yamaha comes out with a Genos 2 type 61 keys, I will upgrade to it.
But in the meantime I will continue playing my 950 for people on nursehomes and birthdayspartys.
As long as my voice is good and I can sing along with folks, it`s nice to do that.
Once again I will thank Eileen, that learnd me a lot about these keyboards, through the years!
All the best from Jan - Eve in Ystad Sweden.

[Keyboard Master]

Long time since I was here on this forum, but I read all the discussions, and I´m interested what Yamaha will come out with next. I have Yamaha PSR - S 950. I bought it 2012 and it has served me very well.
If Yamaha comes out with a Genos 2 type 61 keys, I will upgrade to it.
But in the meantime I will continue playing my 950 for people on nursehomes and birthdayspartys.
As long as my voice is good and I can sing along with folks, it`s nice to do that.
Once again I will thank Eileen, that learnd me a lot about these keyboards, through the years!
All the best from Jan - Eve in Ystad Sweden.

Me too I think it is worth the wait as then once you upgrade after the next ones are lunched you will Have the latest of features and better sounds etc.   

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
today i have mulled over all videos and everything Korg , Ketron etc and my conclusion now is --

Genos until the end. There are lots of little pitfuls and holes in everything and it is not worth wasting money on the Pax 5
The Genos has a better layout, better useability and most of all the quick record which is one of the great things on the Genos.
The Genos also integrates well with Cubase 12.

All the Best
john

[ton37]

OR John, stick with your Genos 1 and buy a Ketron Module on it. That combination with Cubase could be a winner for you?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Thanks a TON M8

I have thought about that

I see a Yamaha advert today for buying keyboards for Christmas  and Yamaha are offering the Genos For just under £4000 without speakers and just over £4000 with.
That tells me that somethng new is on the horizon especially when it has been reduced by over a £1000.
Getting rid of old stock


All the Best
John

[pjd]

That tells me that somethng new is on the horizon especially when it has been reduced by over a £1000.
Getting rid of old stock

Or they jacked prices up too high and sales are off. 

I hate to compare Genos to a frozen enchiladas, but here goes.  The local chain grocery store increased prices on all of its frozen food including the chile relleno that I love. Now they're selling everything at a discount, with coupons, etc., etc. because the stock is sitting in the freezer case.

Yamaha raised prices in the USA, too. I once considered a Reface CP -- now, fuhgeddaboudit. Open box price is even higher than the old street price!

Yish -- pj

[BogdanH]

Agree with pjd.
I don't think Genos price is reduced because something new is on horizon. Actually Yamaha is forced to reduce Genos price, because asking 1000€ more than for "just released" Korg Pa5X is just silly. As it is now here in Europe, Pa5X (76key) is 4670€ and Genos is 4400€. If you ask me, Genos is still way overpriced... if I would buy now, my choice would be Pa5X.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bogdan

One thing that puzzles me about the Pax 5 is that there is no mention of straight play recording using a style as we do with quick record and everything looks long winded on the Korg with accessibility.
I would not want to record Mp3 when i can record wave files and recording a manufactured midi file background would sound robotic.
I have tried to like the Korg as i love their synths and piano's but that is where it ends for me.
It looks to me that you cannot play a song with a style and have it all recorded together as a midi file to edit.
Also what is this fabulous update to the Korg all about in December?.
All a little sketchy at the moment to make a direct comparison to the Genos.
The thing that may be of concern is that Korg was said to be working with Yamaha from what i read some time back. Maybe or not true, but if so it could be the end for the Genos.
No matter what they are certainly keeping the punters held in suspense.
Cant wait for the new Kenko keyboard, it has a free coffee dispenser

[EileenL]

It is true John that Korg shared the same factory as Yamaha years ago but only a very small part. There has always been a fair relationship between the two but that is all. No working together as they each had their own idea's.

[BogdanH]

@ugawoga
I must admit that I didn't dig into Pa5X manual.. and even then, as we know, there will always be unanswered questions left. Saying that, my whole Pa5X impression is based on specifications and on a scarce Youtube content. As I already mentioned elsewhere, I'm surprised by the fact, that there are only some "presentation" videos -that is, I couldn't find any "in-depth" review so far.
Anyway, I do assume that all "usual stuff" can be done with Pa5X... may be in a different way than on Yamaha, though. Here again, my assumption is based on "Korg is more flexible than Yamaha" -a claim I can hear quite often.

Of course, when deciding about different brand, there's a difference between someone who already owns TOTL keyboard and someone who is stepping into TOTL keyboard. That is, I have PSR-SX and if I would be in position to make "step up" right now, then I would choose Pa5X easily. In your case however, you only replace (older) TOTL keyboard with newer one. That is, we both would need to start from scratch, but you don't benefit as much as I do. And that's why I could make decision easier.

You know what? Just enjoy your Genos! -but darn... coffee dispenser you say?.. very tempting 

Bogdan

[mikf]

It is true John that Korg shared the same factory as Yamaha years ago but only a very small part. There has always been a fair relationship between the two but that is all. No working together as they each had their own idea's.

It was much more than a fair relationship - for a while. Yamaha owned Korg for about 10 years. The sharing of facilities happened during that period. But that ended a long time ago when Korg essentially bought themselves back out if the relationship. They are very separate now and very competitive. Having experienced similar things in the corporate world I could lay money that the separation happened because Korg management became disenchanted with being a Yamaha subsidiary, and I doubt there is any kind of relationship now.
Mike

[ton37]

Hi, today I attended a keyboard demonstration given by the Yamaha-demonstrator and entertainer: Peter Baartmans. Being able to enjoy his presentation and listning to his sublime playing technique for 2 hours. An engaging and friendly person who is easily approachable. He played on the Yamaha CVP-7xx and on the Genos. Oh man, wat a wonderful 'concert', so inspiring! Of course: at the (coffee)bar I couldn't resist asking him: when we will see you demonstrating a new Genos2 ? He answered: I don't know that either (and if he did, he wouldn't tell). But he wouldn't be surprised if he started giving presentations on it next Christmas (2023)! In other words, I still trust my prediction in the headline of this post. So, just enjoy your 'old' Yammie just another year and then ...?? It's going to be a 'happy new year', in this regard.

[EileenL]

That sounds about right as they usually launch at the end of the year.
I don't think you will ever see a Genos in three versions. 76 note seems to suit most people.

[AndrewKeyz]

Although it would be good, in some ways, if Yamaha were to give people a 61, 76 and 88 weighted key option I'm not so sure the latter is actually THAT suitable given my experience with the PA5X. It sort of seems clumsy at times: the default split position seems high up the keyboard to me, using mod & pitch bend is more tricky with 88 keys, regardless where they place them. Many voices still benefit from using these wheels and articulation buttons. I find it near impossible to use them effectively on the PA5X88.

Moreover...
Yamaha already does a CVP line for weighted keys which I think suits that far more (focus more on piano and the backing is more automatic rather than chord controlled). For 61 keys people can always resort to the PSR line.

Also Yamaha now offers more backing options in the DGX line. Again more automatic, rather than chord controlled.

Sure, it's possible they will do the full 61/76/88 options with a Genos followup, I'm just not sure it's necessary and is suitable. I don't believe any rumours at this stage anyway.

[Keyboard Master]

I expect Yamaha to Release a New Genos this year. SO Get Ready to be exited when it launches. I hope it does as well.

[mikf]

Andrew - not sure I understand your comment about the backing on a CVP being more automatic, rather than chord driven. The accompaniment on the CVP, Genos and PSRs all works exactly the same way. People might choose to play them differently, but that's all.
An interesting point for me re how important is 61 and 88 keys is how much does portability matter. The arranger grew out of the home organ market, in fact ultimately replaced it. Home organs were top quality, expensive, non-portable pieces of furniture. But my perception is that most arranger players don't need it to be portable, because most owners are home players and arrangers are not typically the instrument  of choice for gig players. They are mostly the same people who bought home organs. .
I think price rather than portability is the really big driver of market. And these portable instruments, even the TOTL models, can be made and distributed so much more cheaply than the very solid piece of home furniture that the home organ or the CVP represents. This expanded the market exponentially. So I think the 88 key arranger wil be successful, as long as it costs little more than the 76 or 61 key versions.
Mike

[AndrewKeyz]

Andrew - not sure I understand your comment about the backing on a CVP being more automatic, rather than chord driven. The accompaniment on the CVP, Genos and PSRs all works exactly the same way. People might choose to play them differently, but that's all.
An interesting point for me re how important is 61 and 88 keys is how much does portability matter. The arranger grew out of the home organ market, in fact ultimately replaced it. Home organs were top quality, expensive, non-portable pieces of furniture. But my perception is that most arranger players don't need it to be portable, because most owners are home players and arrangers are not typically the instrument  of choice for gig players. They are mostly the same people who bought home organs. .
I think price rather than portability is the really big driver of market. And these portable instruments, even the TOTL models, can be made and distributed so much more cheaply than the very solid piece of home furniture that the home organ or the CVP represents. This expanded the market exponentially. So I think the 88 key arranger wil be successful, as long as it costs little more than the 76 or 61 key versions.
Mike

My understanding of Piano Room was perhaps misplaced.

I thought it was more clever than it appears to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qx-tEQ2Zl0&ab_channel=ePianos.co.uk

I presume however that the next step, beyond just AI fingering would be for the arranger to analyse velocity, amounts of notes played and range and change backing based on that but maybe that won't happen.
It's a bit unclear to me what Piano Room does under the hood. It seems to have been sold more as automated backing in some demos but this guy in that video indeed seems to select the style parts in quite a similar fashion, just a different interface. Maybe an improved interface helps pianists. I still don't think touch screen interfaces will ever be as fast as using physical buttons. Hence my gripe with the PA5X not having registrations. With the CVP having the reg buttons towards the right hand side, rather than central as on the Genos (so easier to access from both hands), and two less I don't think there is much of an improvement to the CVP beyond the weighted keys and key count if AI fingering is all that is going on in Piano Room.

[mikf]

Andrew
The piano room is as you say really just a different interface. There is no additional technology on the accompaniment, but it does set the instrument up for playing accompanied two handed piano in a single button press, like a super sophisticated registration. It is also a neat graphic and as well as setting up the CVP it gives a reduced list of styles, easily selectable on the graphic, which are specifically  chosen to be suitable to back full piano playing.
But it also has some limitations, that don't exist when you set up using the normal interfaces. For example, you can't access all the styles, or use custom styles, or start the accompaniment without the one bar metronome sounding first. That last sounds like a small issue but playing an intro or verse freestyle, then kicking in rhythm is a pretty normal pro piano player technique and you can't do it in Piano Room without that one bar metronome.
There are other downsides, but on balance, it's a neat interface that some will like, maybe especially people new to arrangers. It would not in itself influence me to buy a CVP because I hardly use it, but I have to admit it seemed really neat when I first tried it in the showroom, so maybe it did influence me!
The big advantages of the CVP  .........Piano Room isn't one of them ......
It's close to a real piano - good sound, good feel, great for playing/recording two handed piano with full accompaniment.
It's a nice self contained piece of furniture
It gets rid of the studio / lab look of the portable arranger (which my wife hated)
It still has most of the features of an arranger, certainly all I need.
Downsides -
Price - high compared to TOTL arrangers, (but not compared to quality acoustic pianos)
Not portable
Takes up space - (although that might be an upside for some ??)
Not the right tool for people who want to use the arranger it for very sophisticated music recording and production with connectivity to other equipment like computers, workstations, mixers, sound systems and so on.

I chose it because it suits my needs, and liked it so much I bought a second one. It's a unique product because there is really no equivalent from other suppliers.
Mike