Problems in Genos

[EileenL]

Yes Mike I agree most of us buy a keyboard to just sit and produce music as a hobby or to entertain others by playing for them. We like our hands on the keys listening to what these fantastic keyboards let us do. The saying (Keep Music Live) comes to mind here. We don't want to be great commercial music producers blinded with science of all these gadgets. Just want to relax and let the music flow through our finger tips. You can't beat it.

[RoyB]

I agree with Mike and Eileen in the sense that the traditional core market for arrangers has probably been the home hobbyist who just wants to sit down and play a song with full accompaniment, but they have undoubtedly also been popular with solo entertainers. The numbers who want an arranger to play in a band or as a serious studio instrument has probably been very small.

However, as has often been said, these dynamics have probably changed somewhat over the past decade. No doubt the home 'sit and play' hobbyist is still probably the largest market. But I would guess that this is less so than before, with increasing numbers of home musicians looking to use the higher-end arrangers as a creative music tool in home studio set-ups, especially with the escalation of social media outlets where home performers and musicians can share their music.

It is interesting that Yamaha describe the Genos (as the Tyros before) as a 'Workstation' rather than an Arranger (albeit, a very expensive 'Workstation') - presumably to attract a wider audience. This is the same description that Roland uses for my Roland FA08, which costs more that £2000 less than a Genos and is a very different type of keyboard.

It must be said though that, whatever we may think about their products, Yamaha know their markets and they excel at marketing. There are reasons why Yamaha is still so active and dominant in the premium arranger market (even if they do over-price them), whilst many competitors, including Roland, Technics and General Music, who arguably in their time produced more technically sophisticated products, are now missing (for one reason or another).  Marketing and distribution is undoubtedly a big factor, but one area that Yamaha has always excelled in is producing high quality, sophisticated advanced Arrangers that, at the same time, are 'easy play' - a newcomer can quickly and easily sit down and play a song using a selected style and voices.

Finally, there have been a few videos around the Internet for a while now supposedly showing the new forthcoming Korg PA5X. These could be genuine or fake, but if genuine, then it looks a stylish (with its wooden side panels) and seriously impressive piece of equipment, supposedly available with 3 keyboard options, including an 88-note hammer action keyboard. No spec data has been given with these videos, but on the face of it (if genuine), with a large tiltable screen, oads of colourful LED lit buttons, 9 assignable sliders, and 16 dynamic multipads it looks like it is perfectly suited for a live performer and probably also as a studio instrument (especially if the 16 multipads are programmable along with the 9 assignable sliders). If it turns out to be genuine, and depending on the price, it looks like Yamaha will need to up its game for the next Genos.



 

[mikf]

Roy —- The arranger has been a very good tool for some OMB performers. But that is a tiny market. Just think of the number of performers you may have seen in bars, restaurants, cruise ships, etc over the last 10 years - how many were playing an arranger? I can tell you the answer in my case is way less than 1%. Actually it would have been zero except that I once drove to Shreveport to meet and listen to Don Mason at his restaurant gig. Over that 10 years I have heard well over a hundred, maybe two hundred, live performers and only Don was using an arranger.
And while I know a few people who do serious home studio recording, and  composing, the only ones I have come across who use an arranger are on this forum.
I am not downplaying the arranger as an instrument, I love it, but realistically it's almost exclusively a home players instrument. Just go into any large music store and ask how many arrangers they sell to performing musicians or people with home studios. It's going to be close to none. Certainly the case in North America or Western Europe.
My own theory about Yamaha's marketing of the TOTL arrangers as "workstations" is that it is more about making the beginner home buyer feel they are getting a serious instrument, than a genuine attempt to expand the market outside the home buyers. Why would they really care about that....., they already cover that market anyway, so converting workstation users to arrangers gains little or nothing in market share. And it might be negative if in the process they make it too complicated for the home arranger player.
Mike

[tyros2009]

reply deleted by author.

[RoyB]

Mike, I think you are right. But many suspect that the traditional home market for premium arrangers is decreasing. I doubt if anyone outside Yamaha has the figures, but it would be increasing to know how Genos sales figures compare to Tyros 5, and the other Tyros predecessors.

[mikf]

Roy
I noticed that there is a very up to date worldwide market report - May 2022 - on arranger keyboards published by the market research company HNY.  Problem is that it costs thousands to buy and at that price is obviously aimed at corporations in, or thinking of entering, this market, rather than individuals like us. Would be interesting to see it. But overall, I would expect market prospects to be extremely healthy. My impression is that Genos sold very well, despite market supply issues, Covid and other obstacles, but I am not in the retail musical instrument business so dont really know. Would be interesting to hear from people who are in this business..
The traditional buyers of these kinds of auto accompaniment home keyboards are older people and that is very much a growing market. The world population is way up, everyone gets old, they live longer and have more money than ever before. I would have thought that has got to be very positive for this market. Only downside for the brand leaders is that the technology is now very mature and on the development plateau and that means cheaper alternatives and easier market entry for low cost newcomers.
Mike

[tyrosman]

just sit Down and Play it and enjoy it instead of moaning

[musicman01]

Tyrosman, totally agree!! It's time to stop whining about "I want this and that!!"
Genos is the top- ;)arranger keyboard right now and it will be some time before it is overthrown.
Yamaha will never be able to satisfy everyone's needs, that's impossible.
Improvements are always possible, but Yamaha has already solved many things and listened to the justified complaints.
Advice to all, play the Genos as it is and enjoy!!! 

[Lee Batchelor]

just sit Down and Play it and enjoy it instead of moaning

Some would take exception to that comment. Nobody is "moaning." These are honest "wish list" items for serious stage players. Of course, we make excellent use of the existing Genos tools but wanting a few more conveniences is no justification for calling us "moaners!" The "suck it up and just play the instrument" attitude is not called for. Apparently, we paid for our Genos keyboards with just as hard earned money as anyone else did. Our opinions count just as much as anyone's. You don't tell people to stop moaning just because only 1 in 100 use the Genos for live stage playing.

Our comments are actually a tribute to how well Yamaha did with their design of the Genos. By asking for a few extra features, we are demonstrating admiration and confidence in Yamaha's ability to come through.

[EileenL]

I agree to a certain extent but all these suggestions should be put to Yamaha on the site they now have for doing this. They want all these requests put there as the last thing they have time for is trawling all the different forums.

https://yamahapk.ideascale.com/a/community/login

[mikf]

Lee
You are right, of course. People are quite entitled to voice their keyboard observations/wishes on this forum. That's part of the normal function of this forum. Doesn't mean everyone agrees with them, or even that Yamaha is going to pay any attention.
I happen to think some of the the suggestions are a bit unrealistic. But I fully support their right to post these points here if they are not offensive, or indeed for anyone to disagree with them provided they are also respectful.
I see no reason to stop people posting here just because Yamaha has another site they set up, or to worry about whether Yamaha people might waste their time trawling sites. Yamaha can worry about that for themselves.
Mike

[Ingar]

20 is spot on. I have a spare in case. I also have set a mark on minidin and a corresponding on sub and keyboard. That makes it a lot easier to hit.