Genos - Keyboard Harmony Fails

jdup · January 18, 2022, 10:28:39 PM

I have been experimenting with Keyboard Harmony on my new Genos. Every function from Echo, Tremolo, Trills and Arpeggios works fine.

However, I do not achieve any success at all with any of the Keyboard Harmony selections. (I am expecting to play one melodic line with a Voice, and have it harmonized.) I touch "Direct Access" and the Harmony/Arpeggio button. I depress the Gear button, increase the volume of Right 2 to 127, click Close and click X. I save it to Memory and save the Registration.

When i play, there is no difference at all between Harmony On and Harmony Off. What am I missing? It is almost as if the Harmony is blocked or shut off.

I am grateful, in advance, for any help you can provide. Thanks.

Jim Duprey

overover · January 18, 2022, 10:54:47 PM

Hi jdup,

The Echo, Tremolo or Trill effect is applied to the note played in the right-hand section of the keyboard in time with the currently set tempo, regardless of the [ACMP] and the LEFT part on/off status. Keep in mind that Trill works only when you hold down two notes on the keyboard simultaneously (or the last two notes, if more than two notes are held), and it plays those notes alternately.

The effect types of the Harmony category (Standard Duet ... Strum) apply the harmony effect to notes played in the right-hand section of the keyboard according to the Chord specified in the left-hand section of the keyboard. Either ACMP must be on or, if ACMP is off, at least the LEFT part must be on.

Please read also the chapter "Setting up Keyboard Harmony/Arpeggio" in the Genos Owner's Manual (V2.10), pages 56 - 58.

P.S.
Various OTS of the Preset Styles also use the "Keyboard Harmony/Arpeggio" function.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

EileenL · January 19, 2022, 07:16:03 AM

Press Harmony/Echo button and Direct access. This will take you to the page you want to set up the type of Harmony you want. There are four pages to chose from.
Now press the little cog sign.
The volume will adjust the strength of the harmony notes.
Press Assign and select the voice you want the harmony on R1 R2 or R3.
Try your settings out and when happy with it save to a registration.

DerekA · January 19, 2022, 08:46:07 AM

Just in case ... if you've selected that you want the Harmony Assign to be R2, you must have voice part R2 active.

jdup · January 19, 2022, 09:41:47 PM

Thank you Chris, Eileen and DerekA. I knew it was something I was not doing correctly. I had been using 1-finger chording of the left hand. When I switched the left hand to 2-fingers, reflecting the chord of a Duet, I was successful. Now I can sleep tonight!

Thanks so much to everyone. After six weeks, I continue to be in awe of the Genos.

Best Regards,

Jim Duprey

Fred Smith · January 19, 2022, 10:09:36 PM

Quote from: jdup on January 19, 2022, 09:41:47 PM
Thank you Chris, Eileen and DerekA. I knew it was something I was not doing correctly. I had been using 1-finger chording of the left hand. When I switched the left hand to 2-fingers, reflecting the chord of a Duet, I was successful. Now I can sleep tonight!

Thanks so much to everyone. After six weeks, I continue to be in awe of the Genos.

Glad you got something you like.

However, there's no problem activating keyboard harmony with a 1-finger chord. In fact, I'm surprised you're getting the chording you want with 2-fingered chords. How the keyboard interprets 2-fingered left hand chords is a mystery to me, and I've been using Yamaha keyboards for decades.

Sounds to me like you don't have ACMP activated. Or, you don't have the keyboard split properly.

It would be well worth your while to get keyboard harmony working with 1-finger chords. It will add a lot of spice to your performances.

Cheers,
Fred

acparker · January 20, 2022, 06:45:29 AM

One other thing to check for is in the Harmony Settings. Make sure the selected voice is the one you want. Usually, it is set to Auto, but occasionally I have found it set to Right 1, 2, or 3. If it's set for Right 1, and you aren't playing voice 1, then you won't get any harmony sounding.

I've used this on occasion to switch solos. So an Oboe Lead with Clarinet doing Harmony for one verse, then the next, setting the harmony from voice 2 to voice 1, have the oboes doing the backing, and the Clarinet as a solo.

Adam

EileenL · January 20, 2022, 11:53:13 AM

Hello Jim,
If you are setting up harmony correctly it will work with any fingering setting. Will give you Block Chords, Open Chords, Duets in fact any one you select from the large number of choices. As has been said Make sure your ACMP button is on and your split point is correct.

jdup · January 20, 2022, 09:52:46 PM

Thank you so much Eileen, Fred, Chris, Adam and everyone. But I continue to fail. I still must be omitting something.

I have attached 3 screenshots, to show my settings. I don't believe I ever changed the Split Points. It is set for AI Fingering.

I press Direct Access and the Harmony/Arpeggio button. Select any of the Harmony choices. Touch the Gear Key. Set the R2 setting for 127. ACMP is on. Left is on. Selected Voice is R2. I saved it to a Registration. Keyboard checkbox is ticked.

There continues to be no difference between when the Harmony/Arpeggio light is on and when it is off. I would love to be able to do this with 1-finger left hand fingering.

I am still open to any other ideas. I have tried other styles, various volumes, each of the Voices (L,R1,R2,R3).

Thanks, in advance, for all of your time. I have learned so much from each of you.

Jim Duprey

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Fred Smith · January 20, 2022, 11:29:20 PM

Quote from: jdup on January 20, 2022, 09:52:46 PM
Thank you so much Eileen, Fred, Chris, Adam and everyone. But I continue to fail. I still must be omitting something.

I have attached 3 screenshots, to show my settings. I don't believe I ever changed the Split Points. It is set for AI Fingering.

I press Direct Access and the Harmony/Arpeggio button. Select any of the Harmony choices. Touch the Gear Key. Set the R2 setting for 127. ACMP is on. Left is on. Selected Voice is R2. I saved it to a Registration. Keyboard checkbox is ticked.

There continues to be no difference between when the Harmony/Arpeggio light is on and when it is off. I would love to be able to do this with 1-finger left hand fingering.

I am still open to any other ideas. I have tried other styles, various volumes, each of the Voices (L,R1,R2,R3).

Thanks, in advance, for all of your time. I have learned so much from each of you.

Jim Duprey

One more thing we need to know: what harmony type is set? Duet? Trio? Full Chord?

Try selecting trio to see what you get. I would also set Assign to Auto, so it will work regardless of which voices are selected.

Cheers,
Fred

jdup · January 21, 2022, 06:18:42 AM

Thanks, Fred, for your thoughts. I tried Assigning Auto, but it did not change the result.

I did try each of the Harmony selections. I DO seem to get a different sound when I select Rock Duet. But all other Harmony selections are the same.

A few questions..........First, should the Volume of the Harmony Detail be close or the same as the Volume of the Voice R2? Or should one side be say 60 and the other 127? Or is it irrelevant?

Also, is Keyboard Harmony ever modified or disabled by a Style? Just wondering. I am just puzzled.

Thanks.

Jim Duprey

jwyvern · January 21, 2022, 07:16:15 AM

Jim,
Looking at and reading your settings and provided you have the Harmony button and the R2 voice ON, the Harmony "should" be heard whenever you play a chord in the left part of the KB while single fingering in the RH (usually a 3 or 4 note chord but it will often work if 2 notes are played). But all the chord notes must be played below the split point for harmony to work properly so make sure you are doing this.
If it still does not work I suggest you do a Soft reset- Power off then turn on while holding down the topmost key (I do this every time I buy a new keyboard to ensure the KB settings are at defaults) .
The quickest way to check whether harmony is working or not (without you needing to guess many settings of your own) is after power on. The KB puts piano into R1 set to Trio harmony and Auto (on my Genos) . If you now turn on ACMP and the Harmony button and play LH chords below the split point, you should hear the piano playing harmony when you single finger play in the RH.
If so carry on exploring and looking at the settings used and adapt your own

John

Ps. The harmony vol. you set is unnecessarily high although it should not be the reason for the Harmony not working. I generally use values in the range 50-90 depending on how it should sound in the mix.

EileenL · January 21, 2022, 07:29:02 AM

The volume in the Harmony settings is the volume the harmony notes will play. Set it to suit. I set mine to around 70..
Make sure in Memory you have Harmony/Arpeggio ticked. Set it to single fingered if that is what you prefer. For this try out set Harmony to Block. Now press a C note and keep it held down on the left and play some notes on the right and you will hear the harmony coming in.

Fred Smith · January 21, 2022, 10:08:25 AM

Quote from: jdup on January 21, 2022, 06:18:42 AM
Thanks, Fred, for your thoughts. I tried Assigning Auto, but it did not change the result.

I did try each of the Harmony selections. I DO seem to get a different sound when I select Rock Duet. But all other Harmony selections are the same.

A few questions..........First, should the Volume of the Harmony Detail be close or the same as the Volume of the Voice R2? Or should one side be say 60 and the other 127? Or is it irrelevant?

Also, is Keyboard Harmony ever modified or disabled by a Style? Just wondering. I am just puzzled.

Here's how I would debug keyboard harmony:
1. Set desired fingering (in your case, Single Finger)
2. Set right hand voice to piano (much easier to hear harmony with this type of voice)
3. Set Assign to Auto
4. Set Volume to 100
5. Turn off left voice
6. Choose a trio harmony

Play with harmony off, then play the same phrase with it on. You should hear a noticeable difference. Once you get it working, then you can experiment with the settings.

The style itself cannot modify or disable harmony. An OTS can have harmony settings, and can turn harmony on or off.

Cheers,
Fred

jdup · January 22, 2022, 10:20:10 AM

Success!!!! Thank you so much to everyone.

I did a soft reset (first time), but I do not know if that corrected anything. However, it was the fingering that was the deciding variable.

I had it set always to AI Fingering. When set this way, it requires 2 fingers minimum on the Left Hand. Otherwise, you get no harmony. When you have Single Fingering, you can use 1 finger on the Left Hand and obtain harmony. And it IS clear, evident and beautiful.

Thanks to Fred, Eileen, jwyvern, Derek, Chris and everyone. I am so grateful.

Best,
Jim Duprey

Fred Smith · January 22, 2022, 10:35:32 AM

Quote from: jdup on January 22, 2022, 10:20:10 AM
Success!!!! Thank you so much to everyone.

I did a soft reset (first time), but I do not know if that corrected anything. However, it was the fingering that was the deciding variable.

I had it set always to AI Fingering. When set this way, it requires 2 fingers minimum on the Left Hand. Otherwise, you get no harmony. When you have Single Fingering, you can use 1 finger on the Left Hand and obtain harmony. And it IS clear, evident and beautiful.

Thanks to Fred, Eileen, jwyvern, Derek, Chris and everyone. I am so grateful.

Glad we could help.

Cheers,
Fred