Genos Repair - Shaky button

[Mark]

Hi, I'm a Genos owner who reads this wonderful forum from time to time and learns from many knowledgeable people here, but this time I need your advice on the following:

Today while playing I've pressed a "Break" button and it has become "shaky" as if something has become broken there inside and it doesn't feel it fits rights like all the other buttons. "Functionality wise" it still works and also the led works as it should though.

I've found this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td0D4r1_ASw. It illustrates the problem right from the very beginning - it looks and "feels" the same with my keyboard and this guy also explains how to repair these buttons.

My instrument is out of warranty so I'm thinking about doing replacing the button by myself (doesn't look too complicated), however my questions are:

1. May I keep using the keyboard meanwhile and press this "break" button or it can actually damage the motherboard of the instrument? May I keep using my instrument and keep in mind that I should never touch this break button? (I'm a home musician, do not gig or something, so time is not critical to me I can wait)

2. Are there any online stores that actually sell these buttons? I've tried ebay / amazon but haven't found anything. Now this video has a link to one store in Poland (I'm located in Israel) so I was wondering whether are other alternatives. Can someone recommend please?

Of course there is always an option to go to the official dealer and repair there, but it might be pricey, I'll try to ask them, so I leave it as a viable option and now "gathering the information". 

Thanks in advance for your help

Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Mark,

How far out of warranty are you? It's been my experience here in Canada that for something trivial, Yamaha often steps up to the plate and helps the customer. I would ask them first. If they want to charge a lot of money, then explore other options.

[Mark]

Hi Lee,
Thanks for your answer

Well, its about 2 years (Warranty is 1 year here in Israel). I talked to our official dealer and they don't agree to  even tell the price for such a replacement, they're ready to charge about 45$ only for the check and then will tell how much does it cost.

I believe all-in-all it can easily cost around 100$  or more (I would be glad to have been proven otherwise, but I can only judge based on the information they've provided and overall experience with repairs which are pretty costly in my country).

Now I might be ending up bringing it to repair via this official channel which is what you basically suggest, but I do want to explore other possibilities as well (and yes, I agree to take the risks )

So my questions about the links to stores that cell these compartments and whether I might in risk of damaging my motherboard if I switch the instrument on remain open

Thanks again
Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

I see what you mean, Mark. You and I think alike. I seldom have anything fixed by an outside party because I've learned, over the years, how to repair a lot of things.

There have been a lot of successful home repairs to the Tyros and Geno keyboards by knowledgeable people on this forum. You can certainly seek their guidance if you take this on yourself. Let us know how it turns out.

[Al Ram]

Hello,

I had same problem  . . . called US Yamaha and they replaced the bad Genos buttons under warranty (my warranty was expired already) but they were really very good.

If you do not need the break button you can just not use it . . .

If you want to replace yourself, it is only one part .  . . . the other buttons like variation buttons come 3-4 together, the break is only one piece.  see below

https://shop.audiotronic.fr/en/genos/567-break-button-for-genos-keyboard.html

It does not seem very expensive, perhaps under $10 US dollars, problem is to get it . . .

Hope this works out well for you.

Have a great day.

[EileenL]

You can always assign the break to an effects pedal. I find it easier to use this way.

[Mark]

Al Ram, thanks a lot, unfortunately its out of stock there... Any other options?

EileenL, yeah, that's what I thought to do as well for now.

But in general it sounds like I can still use my keyboard as long as I'm not touching the broken button till I change it. I'll update on this in any case.

[Al Ram]

Mark

You might want to call your nearest Yamaha branch . . . . 1. ask if they can cover it under warranty (even if warranty is expired).  OR   2. ask if they can sell and send you the part

If you cannot manage to replace it . . . or in the meantime, one other possible option is to try to assign the Break function to one of the assignable buttons . . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osO8NjAcbHo

That way, you can still use the break but instead of the break button you will press the button assigned to the Break function.

Hope this helps.

Have a great day

[chony]

I do this all the time. My C and D style buttons on my T4, T5 and Genos  were always smashed (I take my Forte very seriously it seems). My C and D on genos have been broken for at least a year - nothing to worry about - it doesn't damage anything.

On the Tyros I repaired it myself but in Genos they built it in a way that it doesn't affect my playing so I haven't replaced it. You can call Yamaha and order just the ABCD piece. You'll need an hour or two and a drill - it's like 50 (maybe more) screws all together. But not a big deal.

[chony]

Al Ram, thanks a lot, unfortunately its out of stock there... Any other options?

Order it from USA or Europe.

[maartenb]

1. May I keep using the keyboard meanwhile

Yes. The plastic "hinge" of the button is broken off. The rest is just fine.

2. Are there any online stores that actually sell these buttons?

I don't know and I don't recommend doing it yourself. Unless you really like the challenge... 

Just go to the store where you bought it. The button will be replaced under warranty.

Since quite a lot of people have had this problem (including myself), one can speak of a design or production issue. Fortunately Yamaha are stepping up and replace the buttons for free, even if your keyboard is two years old.

This only happens with buttons in the row closest to the keys, with the lights in them. The other buttons are fine.


Maarten

[Mark]

Thanks a lot for your replies!

Since, unfortunately, the situation when the distributor will replace these buttons for free in case the unit is not under the warranty is not relevant in my country (I've talked to them), basically the question boils down to where exactly I can order the replacement parts.

Despite being located in Israel, I have many friends living in the US (that fly to Israel pretty often, I'm optimistic and believe that this situation with Covid 19 will end soon), so I may order in any online store that can ship these parts to them in the US or to Israel. I just need your kind advice on actual links to online stores. I haven't found any.

I've found this site:
https://store.musicservice.pl/

They seem to have the parts but It looks like the only way to purchase to Israel/US is wire transfer which is something that I find less convenient (well, I might end up buying there is I won't find any store that accepts credit card payments or maybe Paypal).

I've also contacted the sales representative of https://instrumentalparts.com/ - they've replied with a nice and really polite reply that due to the situation with Covid there are supply chains issues and they can't sell these parts right now. I can totally understand that and hope things will be better soon.

The site https://shop.audiotronic.fr/en/genos/567-break-button-for-genos-keyboard.html that was offered by Al Ram also states that the parts are out of stock.

So any help with the actual links that you might know would be really appreciated. I don't know also whether these parts are officially coming from Yamaha (I would prefer to buy the "original" parts) but I don't know how does the procedure work that's why I'm asking for help here. Maybe I should somehow contact Yamaha US or something, but again, I don't know how exactly I should do that, so I'm out of ideas.

As for the mitigation meanwhile:

I've mapped the "break" functionality to the pedal and it works well. Since its only a hinge in the button, I consider this as a really minor (although annoying) issue and I certainly can wait. There is no rush fixing it ASAP from my side.

[Al Ram]

You can try to call some stores and see if they can order the part for you . . . . 

For example the link i sent you indicates that the part is out of stock but if you call them maybe they can order it for you or they might be able to refer you to someone else:

AUDIOTRONIC Shop
Rue des Terres Neuves
Batiment 19
33130 BEGLES
France
Call  05 57 91 62 11


Good luck

[Argento]

Hey Mark!

Talking from the electronics point of view, (i repair computers, not keyboards, but a circuit board its a circuit board after all) , and looking to thad video, it doesn't apear that you will damage the board with that loose (bronken hinge) button.

Off course i live in a country that is almost impossible to buy items internationally now, and i repaired that kind of buttons on some model of laptops , (that gets "integrated" into the the top halve of the laptop. no cheap replacemente available. ) using cianoacrylate adhesive , and silicon. (the one you use to glue glass).
first step: with very little cianoacrylate adhesive, join the "button" to the "hinge" in his original position and let it dry (the ciano adheres to the plastic like crazy , but its pretty rigid, so...
2nd step, add some (very little) silicon to the joint, to form a "cushion" layer, that's flexible.

Thats repair works really well (didn't break anymore afaik) on a laptop power button, that gets used everyday... with more reason will endure on that button.

Off course its better to get the original replacement i you can.... but if not... if you are a diy / handy guy, can do that "fix"

[Al Ram]

This cianoacrylate adhesive (crazy glue )  and silicon seems like a pretty good idea if the part is nowhere to be found.

Thanks

[Mark]

Thanks a lot, I'll try to update about how it goes

BTW, I've found meanwhile this thread: https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=53254.0 that talks about this topic as well, sorry for producing a kind of content duplication here. Overall, it looks like many people have experienced the same issue. Good to know.

[overover]

Hi Mark,

if you want to replace/repair this button yourself, you should first read the technical information about opening the Genos case and disassembling/re-assembling the regarding circuit board(s).

Feel free to contact me via PM (Personal Message) in this case.


Best regards,
Chris

[Mark]

Hi - it took quite a while since I've raised this topic.
So yesterday I was able to complete this task successfully

To recap:

I've bought the buttons A,B,C,D as they come together as one part and Break (I've got the broken button D and break) from this site:

https://store.musicservice.pl/

It took quite a while till I've got them but it's certainly not because of these guys, So I can confirm that from my experience this site indeed is a way to go!

Then I've used This tutorial:

https://youtu.be/Td0D4r1_ASw

which was extremely helpful, although I didn't have to remove the volume control at the very beginning, the screws that hold the keyboard may not be removed, and if I remember correctly, on the rare panel the screws that hold the power supply socket and those holding a socket for the speaker can also be kept.

That's been said It took about 2.5 hours of work of 2 people (my and my beloved uncle ) and we've managed to make it happen.

So I would like to thank you all guys for being so helpful and providing valuable feedback.

[overover]

Thank you for your detailed feedback, Mark!

I am very pleased that the repair of this button on your Genos worked well.

Please check the YT link in you last post. (Obviously one character is missing at the end of the link URL.)


Best regards,
Chris

[Mark]

Thanks, the link is fixed

[Toril S]

You talented people! I love solutions

[Floodie]

Has anyone tried repairing a broken button with crazy glue?

[overover]

Has anyone tried repairing a broken button with crazy glue?

Hi Floodie,

I don't think you can permanently fix a broken Tyros/Genos button with Crazy (Krazy) Glue. The breaking point on the plastic tab in question is very small. Also see the attached image. If you go to the trouble of opening up the keyboard, removing various circuit boards and removing the button assembly, I would replace it with a new part right away.


Best regards,
Chris

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