Genos and Cubase+Kontakt+VST plugin

[elad770]

Hi everyone.

I think I'm ready to expand my sound creation but there's one thing that's holding me back. All I want to do is ONE SIMPLE THING
I want to create the sounds I like on the computer using DAW (Kontakt etc) and Call them immediately through My registrations.
I would like to dedicate a midi output (let's say Right 1) and link it to the computer. Is there any way to call sounds and voices from the DAW?

I see a lot of members here use DAW and I would really appreciate if you respond here. What do you do when you play? You click the mouse to go to your favorite sound?
This can not work performing live. I need a one-click solution. Registration---> Midi commnad---> calling out a voice.

If it works with Notes and music sheet (through midi) why it can't work with sounds?

Thank you in advance

[Normanfernandez]

Hi!

As far as my knowledge goes, Registrations are only for the Keyboard.
DAWs don't function like that.
I'll soon be making Videos using the keyboard styles and Instruments that are played VIA Kontakt.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,55672.0.html

Here's a expansion Voice I Created, the instructions are on the Post, this will help you while playing VSTi


As of now, I'm only Using RH1 ( Channel )

I've Also had Issues with Other Channels being Sent to Cubase
Go to the Midi function and adjust the Transmission settings.
As off now it's just set for CH1 on my Keyboard.


For the Registration Voice change

You could use the Up or Down arrow key on the Computer Keyboard.

To switch between the Instruments.

Set all to CH1.

Hope this helped you!
Regards Norman.

[elad770]

Thank you so much for your reply

I was hoping you will reply specifically because you are a genius when it comes to these things.

The problem is that I don't want to use computer clicks to navigate between voices. I want to be able to have a specific song/performance
with a specific bank of sounds that I can recall upon hitting the registration button. I thought it is exactly like assigning a pad on a midi controller

[RoyB]

Interesting. This is a concept that I have been thinking about for some time now. Basically this is:-

(i) Have a load of additional sound samples stored on an external device (e.g. a PC) connected via MIDI to the keyboard;
(ii) Be able to select those sounds on demand on the keyboard (as with any of the keyboard voices) from a set of voices listed in the user area on the keyboard or on a USB stick connected to the keyboard (which could then be stored in registrations, etc);
(iii) The external device (PC) then responds to the midi messages from the keyboard to select and play the appropriate sound sample.

My conclusion was that I believe it would be technically possible to do this, but at the moment the solutions required to do it are not available.

This type of arrangement is comparable to that used by the V3 Yammex Expansion Module. This has all the additional sound samples stored on an external module connected via MIDI to the keyboard. A set of small .vce voice files are then stored in the user area on the keyboard or on a USB stick. These small .vce files are basically small midi files that contain the sound program information (MSB, LSB, Prog No. etc) and other SY*** messages required to communicate the necessary instructions to the Yammex module. These voice files can be selected on demand in the normal way on the keyboard for the RH and LH parts, and can be saved in registrations. The Yammex module contains the necessary software to read these instructions and play the selected voices on the Yammex.

Others on the forum who are more familiar with midi and the structure of .vce files might be able to add more as to what type of instructions may be contained in these .vce files to control the external module.

In theory, I would say it could be technically possible to mimic this arrangement using a PC as the external sound module. I think for this to work would require:-

(i) The sound samples to be stored as pre-set instruments on the PC in a consistent format, with MSB, LSB and Prog No. assignments that the Yamaha keyboard can recognise;
(ii) A special software player on the PC to read and interpret the incoming midi messages in order to select the the sound sample for the voice selected on the keyboard and play the notes, etc. I'm not aware of any software available that could do this, and I don't think you would be able to use VSTs or instruments library players such as Kontakt, SampleTank, etc anyway as you would need to be able to select pre-set dedicated instruments/sound samples via MSN/LSB/Prog No. information. It would probably require individual samples in the form of .SF2 or .gig files or similar.
(iii) Small .vce voice files containing midi information to be stored on your keyboard or a USB stick connected to the keyboard.

I would guess all this is technically possible (as shown with the Yammex module), but I don't think the solutions required to do this with a PC are available. In any case, I think there would be a couple of things to note:-

(a) The PC is used as the sound generator for these external sounds, so you would need to hook up the audio out from the computer to the audio input on the keyboard (or use a mixer to mix the PC audio with the keyboard audio);
(b) You would not be able to use large sound samples for on-the-fly playing because of the loading time (for example, it takes ages to load many Kontakt instruments).

It would be interesting to hear the thoughts from some of the more technically knowledgable people on this (like JoeH who has already experimented with selecting Motif sounds from his Yamaha arranger, or the guy from Groovyband Live! who has expert knowledge of Yamaha's midi capabilities).

Regards

Roy 

[Joe H]

I have a Midi Solutions Event Processor to change the MSB to whatever an external instrument uses.  (see link below)

eg;  I have a Analog plug-in card in my Yamaha MU128. Those voices use MSB 036  LSB 001, I so use the Event Process to remap the MSB 063 to MSB 036 and assigned the Voices in YEM LSB 001.

You can create a dummy expansion Voice pack by simply writing in the names of the Kontakt Voices.

At the top of the YEM screen you will see My Packs
Click on the + icon and choose the option: Create New Pack (Pack 001 will appear)

Below at the heading of Pack 001 click on the + icon and choose Create Normal Voice, Do this for up 128 Voices.
You can give each Voice a Kontakt Voice name. (there is an option somewhere to change the Program Change Number as well to match the Kontakt PC #.

When you are done, change the LSB to whatever is used by Kontakt.

At this point is important to Save or Export the dummy pack as a .ppf so you don't loose it

You will need the Event Processor to remap the MSB 063 to the Kontakt MSB #.

You can download the software for the Event Processor to see how it works.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm  (Programming Tools Software)

Creating a dummy expansion pack for my Analog Voices allows me to select the AN Voices right from my S970 as an expansion pack (MIDI out must be connected to MIDI In of my MU128) in your case the MIDI Out on your keyboard must be connected to MIDI In on your computer.

For the Motif sound module, I created 3 dummy packs for the 3 banks of User Voices which use the MSB 063.  I just had to assign the LSB to match the ones used by the Motif.

It will be easy for you to select Kontakt Voices as an expansion pack installed in your keyboard.  It's a little work but once it is done, it's such a dream to be able to select Voices.

You will need to create a custom MIDI Template to use with your dummy Kontakt expansion pack.

Here's the settings:

System Tab: R1 Local Off
Transmit Tab: check mark - Note, CC, PC, PB (AT if you have a Tyros or Genos)
Receive Tab: check mark - Note, CC, PB, AT
Bass Tab: No edits
Chord Detect: No edits

Name the MIDI Template something like: R1 Play Kontakt

All this work will be worth it when you can select Kontakt Voices just like you select keyboard Voices or expansion pack Voices.



Joe H

[RoyB]

In the past couple of weeks I have made some significant progress on my project concept as described above, and am now well on the way to sorting it out. I have started a new thread on this (https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,56973.msg442860.html#msg442860) rather than derail this one.

Further to your original question, the keyboard selects a voice by sending bank change (MSB and LSB) and program change (Prog) MIDI messages simultaneously. All 3 parameters (MSB, LSB and Prog) are needed to select a voice. Unfortunately, as far as I can ascertain, Kontakt does not recognise or utilise MSB and LSB MIDI messages. The same apparently applies to most VSTi plugins. And even those that do implement MSB and LSB do not apparently do so in a consistent way. Therefore, based on what I can find out, I tend to think that it is not possible to use the keyboard to select a specific VSTi plugin preset.

Regards

Roy

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
If you have  a Genos and a daw like Cubase , i say go for it.
It is quite a learn curve at first, but once you see the light, sky is the limit.
Genos and VST is a great way to go. The Genos and Cubase works great . Mostly all failings are pilot era.
Everybody has a computer crash now and then, which updates and dodgy vst plugins like feebies can cause. To get over the computer failings back all up with Win 10.
Make a system image.
The Windows system imageing has save my bacon a few times and it works a treat once you know how to backup and restore. You need a Terrabyte external drive to put a system image on which will give you plenty of space for that and also backing up your vst sound downloads.
Another thing is not to cut corners with a cheap computer. Get one with plenty of ram. 32gig as nowadays Vst samples can eat ram and slow your computer.
After my experiences with computers, it pays to get one specially built for music only and one for general use.
It is all worth it in the end and can save future headaches
Since i have been on this forum i have had a few headaches and lots of help from members which is great.
Coming up from a ZX Spectrum to a Pentium 4 was the most frustrating experience in my life. Talk about morse code  and  slow!! beep beep!!
Today things are looking up hopefully.

All the best
John