How do I link new Multipad bank to a style?

[Toril S]

Hello friends! I must have a Major Senior Moment, because I am no longer able to link a new multipad ba to a style.
I select the pad bank I want, press the left multipad button so the pad begins to flash, than press menory and the OTS button, then save the style. I do this with all four OTS buttons and save it all. But the next time I call up the style the old unwanted multipad is there! I must have forgotten something because I am quite sure I have done this before. Please help, my good friends!

[Joe H]

The Multi Pad is part of the OTS. You must save the OTS... not the style.

Press the Memory button and hold, then the OTS you wish to save. If you are working with the Genos, it's probably a little different procedure.

Joe H

[overover]

The Multi Pad is part of the OTS. You must save the OTS... not the style.

Joe H

But the OTS data is part of the STYLE. So you must save the STYLE after re-memorizing the OTS buttons. (If it was a Preset Style before, you must save it as a User Style.)


Best regards,
Chris

[Toril S]

Hello Joe H and Chris. Thank you for answering so quickly! It turns out that I had two style files with the same name, and they were in different drives, and I got all confused. A little enbarrasing, but it all works now! So nice to have friends that come to help, joining this group was one of the smartest things I ever did

[Fred Smith]

Hello friends! I must have a Major Senior Moment, because I am no longer able to link a new multipad ba to a style.
I select the pad bank I want, press the left multipad button so the pad begins to flash, than press menory and the OTS button, then save the style. I do this with all four OTS buttons and save it all. But the next time I call up the style the old unwanted multipad is there! I must have forgotten something because I am quite sure I have done this before. Please help, my good friends!

As far as I can tell, Toril, you're doing it the right way.

When you recall the style, are the getting the new one, or the old one?

Cheers,
Fred

[Toril S]

Fred, thank you for answering so quickly! I messed it up by having two stylefiles with the same name on different drives, but it all works now. Not my brightest moments!

[Fred Smith]

Fred, thank you for answering so quickly! I messed it up by having two stylefiles with the same name on different drives, but it all works now. Not my brightest moments!

Welcome to the club. It's our badge of honor as seniors.

Cheers,
Fred

[Toril S]

 

[Joe H]

But the OTS data is part of the STYLE. So you must save the STYLE after re-memorizing the OTS buttons. (If it was a Preset Style before, you must save it as a User Style.)

Best regards,
Chris

That's not the case on my S970.  I can save OTS without saving the style.  The OTS chunk is separate from the MIDI part of the style so the style and the OTS must be saved separately. The only time I save a style is when the Sections and Parts are edited.

For clarification... maybe the issue here is that I don't use Preset styles at all.  Once I edit them they become User Styles, so editing OTS does not require me to save the style.

Joe H

[Fred Smith]

That's not the case on my S970.  I can save OTS without saving the style.  The OTS chunk is separate from the MIDI part of the style so the style and the OTS must be saved separately. The only time I save a style is when the Sections and Parts are edited.

For clarification... maybe the issue here is that I don't use Preset styles at all.  Once I edit them they become User Styles, so editing OTS does not require me to save the style.

Joe H

Certainly, you have to save the style, Joe. You may not have to create a new file like you do when modifying a preset style, but you have to replace the old one. If you don't save, your changes are discarded.

Cheers,
Fred

[overover]

Certainly, you have to save the style, Joe. You may not have to create a new file like you do when modifying a preset style, but you have to replace the old one. If you don't save, your changes are discarded.

Cheers,
Fred

Yes, that is true. IF you memorize changed settings to the OTS, you always must newly save the Style file (either as a new file or overwriting the source file). Otherwise you will have the previous settings again when you load the Style again later.

The second option (that I recommend) is to leave the Styles completely untouched, but simply memorize all settings (e.g. Style changes, Multi Pad, Keyboard Voices, Effects, Split Points, etc.) to Registrations. (The OTS are not used in this case.)


Best regards,
Chris

[Misu]

Hello,

I will add to this subject a little bit more complicated situation.
I have an installed pack and I make a new style on USER when is ready with OTS and everything I tried to copy to the pack.
Everything is OK voice, OTS except the link with multiped.
When i saved the OTS the MP was already on the pack, so the link is made with MP from the pack on YEM.
The style from user have the link but the style added in pack have not.
Have someone an idea how to fix this issue?

Many thanks!
Mihai

[Joe H]

Certainly, you have to save the style, Joe. You may not have to create a new file like you do when modifying a preset style, but you have to replace the old one. If you don't save, your changes are discarded.

Cheers,
Fred

Fred,

I just went through an exercise I have performed at least 100 times.

I modified the OTS in 2 styles

Style #1:  I modified OTS 4 and changed R1, R2 Voices and the Multi Pad and saved the OTS, but did NOT save the style.
Style #2:  I modified OTS 4 and changed R1, R2 Voices, and the Multi Pad, I saved the style using Style Creator, but did NOT save the OTS.

I turned off the keyboard and powered it on again in 5 minutes.

Results: Style #1 the OTS 4 maintained my edits by saving the OTS, but Style #2 the OTS 4 edits were NOT saved by just saving the style using Style Creator.

As I explained above, the style is a MIDI file. Style Creator saves the MIDI portion of the style and CASM settings only.  The OTS chunk is a non-MIDI portion of the style file and is NOT saved by Style Creator but must be saved by memorizing the OTS and using the OTS SAVE option.

While many use registrations as you and Chris have described, it is my point of view that the designers original intent for the registrations is to "arrange" a SONG with the registrations.  Many people use registrations for other purposes because a registration will save ALL Panel settings as a "snapshot".  This is much like older Yamaha synths that saved a "Scene" of Panel settings.

Registrations are the most powerful function of the arranger keyboard, and can be used for different purposes.

Joe H

[Joe H]

... The style from user have the link but the style added in pack have not.
Have someone an idea how to fix this issue?

Many thanks!
Mihai

Are the Multi Pads you saved in the pack styles still in the same location as when you saved them?  You should be able to save a Multi Pad in OTS then add the style to a pack.  But it seems you can only save 1 Multi Pad for all OTS.  Yamaha Euro Dance pack styles do NOT have Multi Pads, but registrations are included that link Multi Pads to the styles.  Easy Sounds packs contain styles with Multi Pads but there is 1 MP for all 4 OTS.

So... there seems to be a limit on MPs saved with styles included in expansion packs. 

I often use a different Multi Pad with each of the 4 OTS, and ALL my styles are User Styles.

Joe H

[Fred Smith]

I modified the OTS in 2 styles

Style #1:  I modified OTS 4 and changed R1, R2 Voices and the Multi Pad and saved the OTS, but did NOT save the style.
Style #2:  I modified OTS 4 and changed R1, R2 Voices, and the Multi Pad, I saved the style using Style Creator, but did NOT save the OTS.

I turned off the keyboard and powered it on again in 5 minutes.

Results: Style #1 the OTS 4 maintained my edits by saving the OTS, but Style #2 the OTS 4 edits were NOT saved by just saving the style using Style Creator.

As I explained above, the style is a MIDI file. Style Creator saves the MIDI portion of the style and CASM settings only.  The OTS chunk is a non-MIDI portion of the style file and is NOT saved by Style Creator but must be saved by memorizing the OTS and using the OTS SAVE option.

That's useful information to the uninitiated, Joe, but neither Chris nor I were talking about saving in Style Creator. We we using the normal File>Save procedure, which most people use, or when yes answer "Yes" to the question that always pops up after you memorize an OTS.

I still take exception to your statement "I can save OTS without saving the style", because this will confuse the vast majority of users here. At the very least you need to clarify what you mean by "save" in each case. I prefer the term "memorize" when referring to OTS, so people know it's the action of using the Memory button. When I say "save", it's a File>Save operation.

What do you mean by "save"?

Cheers,
Fred

[Joe H]

Fred,

The only way I know to save a style after editing it is to save with Style Creator and then it becomes a User Style. I stated all my styles are User Styles because I rarely use a Preset Style the way it is programmed. Chris alluded to using registrations to make changes and not editing a style.

When you memorize an OTS we get a dialog box asking if we wish to SAVE.  Select NO and the changes are only temporary.  When we select YES; then the screen changes to allow us to navigate to the style and save our OTS changes. It's pretty basic.  This has been the case for a very long time with past arranger models.  I personally only go back to the S910, but this has been my experience with both the S910 and S970.

Joe H

[DerekA]

When you memorize an OTS we get a dialog box asking if we wish to SAVE.  Select NO and the changes are only temporary.  When we select YES; then the screen changes to allow us to navigate to the style and save our OTS changes. It's pretty basic.  This has been the case for a very long time with past arranger models.  I personally only go back to the S910, but this has been my experience with both the S910 and S970.

You realise you are, actually, saving the style here - i.e. updating the physical style file. If you navigate somewhere different, you'll save a new copy of the style file complete with your new OTS.

[Joe H]

You realise you are, actually, saving the style here - i.e. updating the physical style file. If you navigate somewhere different, you'll save a new copy of the style file complete with your new OTS.

No, that is NOT the case, you are saving the OTS chunk ONLY.  In order to save changes to the style (Part edits made in the Mixing Console) you must use Style Creator.  Saving the style using the simple SAVE option or saving the OTS will NOT save edits to the style.

I speak from experience.  I have made both OTS changes and edited the style parts at the same time and I must save the OTS as I described and save the style separately using Style Creator.  If I only save the OTS, the style edits are NOT saved.

That's how the keyboard works.

Joe H

[jwyvern]

I speak from experience.  I have made both OTS changes and edited the style parts at the same time and I must save the OTS as I described and save the style separately using Style Creator.  If I only save the OTS, the style edits are NOT saved.

That's how the keyboard works.

Joe H

That is my experience too. I cannot see why there is apparent disagreement unless it is over different interpretations of the wording being used. The actual experience for anyone who works to change style properties and OTS's (two separate aspects of styles) must surely be similar.
When you change OTS on Tyros's and Genos they ask if you want to save OTS so in that case it is more difficult to forget to do it or do it wrongly.
But I don't know if Joe's PSR's do the same.


John

[Joe H]

... When you change OTS on Tyros's and Genos they ask if you want to save OTS so in that case it is more difficult to forget to do it or do it wrongly.
But I don't know if Joe's PSR's do the same.

John

It is the same on PSR arrangers as I state above. Saving style edits and saving OTS edits are 2 distinct operations.

Joe H

[Joe H]

Misu,

After posting my response to you I remembered that the DJ styles have 4 different Multi Pads assigned to the style.  MP A, B, C and D.  So... it must be possible to program a style with 4 different MPs and then Import the style as "Content" into a pack in YEM.

Please follow up and let us know if you find a solution to your problem.

Joe H

[DerekA]

It is the same on PSR arrangers as I state above. Saving style edits and saving OTS edits are 2 distinct operations.

Joe H

Ok I think we are talking at cross purposes here. We are both right.

Saving ots does update the style file, so you are saving a change to the file. But it doesn't save other changes you made, you need to use the save style operation for that part.

You seemed to be suggesting ots data was not part of the physical style file which is where the disagreement came from. But if think we are all on the same page now 🙂

[Joe H]

... But if think we are all on the same page now

We can always blame it on semantic or we can find fault with Yamaha for its poor documentation and lack of detail.  Why Yamaha has designed things a certain way I'm sure they had good reason.  The style FILE has several chunks to it and not all are saved together in the same operation.  I think Yamaha know what its doing even if we don't.

PS: Toril's question was related specifically to saving OTS.

   

Joe H

[Toril S]

My mistake was that I forgot that an edited file automatically is saved to the user drve. So I julped back to my USB stick to check, and that file was not altered. A senior moment!