Why can't consumers have a 'perfect' arranger keyboard?

[fantasyvn]

It seems to me that all major brands, including Yamaha and Korg, have some quirky features that prevent their arrangers from becoming perfect.

Korg's weak point, for me, is the way it handles user styles. In roland or yamaha it is possible to connect a USB flash drive with thousands of styles and listen to them one by one, and use them directly . But Korg does not allow that as you must first load into the keyboard. So if you have thousands of styles on the USB drive, it is impossible to test the styles quickly in any Korg keyboards, including the high-end PA range.

About Yamaha, I wish they had some features like:

- The ability to change the chords in the Intro: I was told that in Korg, you can play any chords and the Intro will change accordingly, making the Intro refreshing.

- Smaller, portable and being able to power with batteries.

- The ability to change the chords after you have recorded the song. This feature is available in Korg's PA range. Basically after you have recorded your audio, you can easily check and change any chords. A quick look on YouTube will show us how.

Of couse, one may say 'Oh, but I don't like any of these features. It is perfectly fine now.' But perhaps you would agree that it would be nice, and therefore perfect, if features like these are added in ONE keyboard.

[beykock]

Nobody and/or nothing will ever be perfect in life.

Improvements will always be available after a while.

One cannot have it all.

Babette

[Gunnar Jonny]

If anyone create the 'perfect' keyboard that fits everyone, they would be out off business pretty soon.
Who would need any new when already have the perfect one .... 🤔
It's all about business. 🤑😁

[Misu]

When it is almost nothing to add and keyboard is almost perfect, it is exact moment to die(see Technics KN7000).
Carefully with Korg (commercial display; user style from stick; loading 2 ore more sets once) and long live to Yamaha (so many function to add to leave back the PC).
Finally, with the last generation, I consider that the memory for samplers has stop to be a big issue for the customers.
Just an opinion.
Mihai

[DonM]

Latest major free updates for PA4X allow use of Direct Folder to audition or just play styles directly from USB.  Not as good as the way Yamaha does it, but it is effective nevertheless.
Of the three intros and endings, Korg allows you to play live chord changes on Number Two.  Number Three is the short intro or ending, and Number One is the long intro or ending.   A few of the endings stop too abruptly, but as you say, nothing is perfect.  They can be corrected by editing.
Intros and endings allow totally different reactions to major and minor chords. 
Even factory styles can be edited, moved, deleted or replaced if you wish.
We won't ever have a perfect arranger, because perfect is different for each of us!
Right now there is a PA4X, a PSR SX900 and a Roland EA7 setting beside me.  If ONLY we could combine what we like best about them all!

[pjd]

Hi --

Just a couple of thoughts...

There are limits to what can be done on battery powered. As I mentioned in the other thread, amplification is power hungry. Yamaha's battery powered instruments use a very small number of electronic components. It makes battery power possible, but computation and resulting sound quality is more limited than higher-end models. It's a very real engineering trade-off.

As to intros that respond to chords, Yamaha keyboards already support this ability! An introduction can be "programmed" to respond to chord changes. It just seems that no one takes advantage of this capability and have written introductions that follow the players chord changes. Writing a good introduction or ending is a musical challenge and maybe there aren't enough musicians who have both the musical and technical skills.

Take care -- pj

[DonM]

Difference being that the Korg intro/endings number two all already are programmed to respond to chord changes.  Personally, I wouldn't miss it much, but I can think of a few songs where I use it. 
When I play the Yamaha I don't miss the feature. 

[beykock]

Hi PJ :

Where can the intro and ending chord instructions be found ( how to use chords in Yamaha's arranger keyboards ) ?

Would be very grateful to be informed about the web link ( if available ).

Thanks for your reply, Babette

[rikkisbears]

Hi Babette,
It's not a case of how you use them.
You would have to record your own intro/endings. They would have to respond to chord changes the way that variations do.
Haven't tried it for a Yamaha, only Korg.

[beykock]

Hi Rikki :

BIAB might be a useful tool, right ?

Babette

[pjd]

Rikki said it short as possible. The style intro and ending sections need to be written to respond to user chords.

All of this is under the control of the Note Transition Table (NTT) and Note Transition Rule (NTR). NTT and NTR are described in section "SFF Edit - Making Style File Format Settings" in the "Creating/Editing Styles (Style Creator)" chapter of the Reference Manual. Please see the Reference Manual for your particular arranger.

If someone understands NTT and NTR, they will also know how to write DJ styles (where every section has a fixed chord progression) and to handle MegaVoice.

This is not an easy subject with short answers. Style creation requires study and experimentation.

Hope this helps -- pj

[Ed B]

Hi
Soundwonderland  have a style that is programmed to allow you to play the intro like a main variation.
Orchestral English Waltz
Style, created by Heidrun Dolde
https://soundwonderland.de/pages/en/shop/styles.php
For anyone who would rather purchase than create their own. They may have others but I just happened to spot this one.
I have no affilation with the group. Heidrun is a member here.
Regards
Ed B

[SciNote]

The discussion about changing chords during the intro of a style got me to wondering, as I rarely use styles except for the drums, so I wondered what would happen on my PSR-E433.  So, I turned on auto-accompaniment, and started the intro of a style.  It DID allow me to change chords, but it was weird, like there was a delay or something when I changed the chord.  Then I saw why -- If I did not change the chord, the style itself had its own chord sequence during the intro.  Like you could hit an F chord, but the intro may also contain Bb, C, or other chords until the main style pattern started.  Manually playing a different chord during the intro would interrupt this sequence, but not in a really predictable or useful way.

[markstyles]

As I'm sure everyone knows by now, the intro's/outro's are short midi recordings.  By calculated changing of chords during an intro/outro, you can make some pretty sophisticated results. (you can also make it sound not so good).  If you are adept enough, you could jump from a MAINS selection, to an Intro 3 from another style, change chords) then back into the Mains of a different style. 

Although it takes some exploration to find a song intro, and key transpose to make it fit,  you get another level of sophistication in your song.

[Toril S]

The intro can also be transposed while playing it, to get a smooth transision to another key. Will not always sound goo, but sometimes.